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When I was growing up, I heard the phrase “we can’t afford it” more than any other. More than “I love you” or “pass the peas” or anything else. I hate it more than I could hate any other phrase. I made a lot of effort NOT to say it very often to our kids (not that we gave them everything, but I found other reasons why we couldn’t get this or that). They heard it enough to know that we didn’t have an unlimited budget, but not so much that they would grow to loath it. YMMV</p>
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<p>Yeah I never see those. Oh wait, there’s one right in this thread about Yale.</p>
<p>ProudPatriot, we’re reading the exact same article and coming to remarkably different conclusions. Here’s the quote from the article about the young woman talking about $200 dresses:</p>
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<p>You said “Complaining that you can’t afford $200 dresses is whining.” I’m not seeing any complaining or whining. I’m seeing a student commenting on the differences between her and some of her classmates. I’ve had pretty much the same discussion with my own generally privileged but on a budget full-pay daughter, because she is also a thrift shop/flea market buff who loves that her look is remarkably different than that of many others at her school.</p>
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<p>We used different language with our kids because, frankly, we usually could afford it and it seemed disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Our stock phrase from the time they were very little was, “That seems like a great thing to add to your birthday list or to save for.” They learned that there’s a difference between what they want and what they need and that even if they can afford the former it doesn’t always make sense to spend the money.</p>
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Saying 99% feel unworthy is quite different from saying a lot of kids feel intimidated. </p>
<p>I’d agree that many do treat well known students differently. For example, my class had a well known child actor in it. I heard that during dorm meetings, several dorm members would agree with whatever he suggested. Celebrities and well known athletes often had a following of students that tried to be friends with them or hook up with them. My roommate and I called these “groupies.” However, financial status of parents is not the same thing as fame. It’s quite common to know little about the financial status of your roommate’s parents, and I doubt there is as much interest in being on good terms with children of wealthy parents as in being on good terms with famous persons.</p>
<p>Anyone on a limited income who chooses one of the “rich” colleges is acting very foolishly, just like people who bought the McMansions they couldn’t really afford. These schools are no better and no worse than thousands of more affordable schools. As PizzaGirl has said, they’re luxury goods.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14310478-post21.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/14310478-post21.html</a></p>
<p>^ Did you miss all of the times where it’s been demonstrated that those “rich” colleges are actually CHEAPER for lower-income families than the state schools?</p>
<p>annasdad, the student at Duke quoted in the original article writes "Duke is great because of its amazing financial aid packages. My ability to go here is truly incredible. " It’s because Duke is a “rich” college that that it can offer “amazing financial aid”.</p>
<p>We read Sonia Sotomayer’s autobiography, My Beloved World, in our bookclub. She writes beautifully of being part of the scholarship group at Princeton. Her naivety shows through. Even as a senior, she threw a letter from Phi Beta Kappa into trashcan. Her roomie saw it, explained to SS that it was an honor. I think she tries to capture the feeling of being far from home and her world, when she entered P. To her and her mother, going to Grand Central Station was as Far East as they had ever gone. Sonia took the train alone.</p>
<p>Annas, I know you know this and are simply ignoring it, but those on a “limited income” like are being discussed ITT are those who would almost certainly pay less than at a local U. </p>
<p>But, carry on…</p>
<p>ETA: Book, I ignored the PBK letter I got as a junior until my dean tracked me down to discuss it. I joined PBK but I don’t know that it’s helped me at all. In fact, it feels pretty useless.</p>
<p>Both I and my Ds flew to college across the country alone. My full-pay parents either weren’t able or didn’t see the necessity of going with me. I did the same to my Ds, because that is what I knew.</p>
<p>@ Consolation…I think times really have changed. I was discussing this recently with some friends. My children have attended Ivy/Stanford and have landed up getting invited on private jets to ski resorts. There was none of this conspicuous consumption back when I attended Stanford in the 70s. First of all, we all wore jeans and never dressed up. We never went out to eat unless it was pizza. Fancy restaurants were unheard of. I am sure there were wealthy people, but it was not considered “cool” to be wealthy. I grew up comfortably middle class, but did attend college on scholarship and had to watch my pennies (although college was sooooo much cheaper back then). I think we are in an age where people think nothing of spending lots of money on “frills.” </p>
<p>On another point though, I am a huge believer in studying abroad and many schools will apply your financial aid toward study abroad expenses. When I went back in the 70s, Stanford paid your plane fare over…we just had to buy a plane ticket home. Of course, being middle class enabled you to find the funds. Truly poor kids would still have to find funding, but I believe there are special funds at many schools.</p>
<p>I do think lower income kids can struggle somewhat with economic disparity issues at the top schools, and I don’t think it’s whining to say so. My D did not come home for Thanksgiving because we couldn’t afford it, and because it didn’t make a lot of practical sense when she’ll be flying home for winter break in just two more weeks. We forewarned her of this when she chose her distant school. However, knowing in advance doesn’t make it easier when your friends stare at you in disbelief and imply that your parents must not care that much about you if they won’t fork over the money for a plane ticket home on a holiday when EVERYBODY goes home.</p>
<p>Up-thread Slitheytove hit on a big difference that D notes: a more relaxed attitude about planning for career and future among D’s wealthier friends. They worry so much less about getting good grades, finding relevant internships, and getting a job post-graduation. Some have never worked a day in their lives, but that doesn’t seem to matter in their world–only the middle class and lower class world. Worse, D recently had the lovely experience of watching one friend who had never had a job of any kind land a position D also applied for and had far more experience for. Connections and breeding help more than some people realize. </p>
<p>As far as money for interviews, D is supposed to find a way to a company for an interview that is 3 hours from campus via public transportation, during finals week. If she had a car or would be getting reimbursed (small company, so they are not paying), it would be a lot easier to swing it. This past summer, she got a nice internship in NYC, but had to borrow money from a family member to pay for the brokerage fee, security deposit and first month’s rent. We did not have it to lend to her, so if that family member had not helped her, she would have had to turn down the opportunity. Neither of her summer roommates had a care in the world about coming up with the cash, and one was not earning nearly enough to subsidize living there all summer. Clearly her parents were supporting her so she could take that job. Would not have happened in our case.</p>
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Exactly my D’s sentiment. She loves thrifting and has a popular Youtube channel about fashion, vintage clothes, upcycling thrift finds, and thrifting.</p>
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<p>The thrift-enthusiasts probably don’t have the “can’t afford it” issues mentioned – they probably see no point in what they consider excessive spending. The ones who might have these issues would be those who have expensive tastes that they cannot afford.</p>
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<p>Absolutely not true. I remember a poster whose wonderful kid had virtually no “ECs” because he worked on the family farm. He got in to Stanford–as many of us thought he would.</p>
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<p>Exactly, Ohmomof2. It’s my money “subsidizing” my kid’s full-freight education, for which they would not have without their father and me. My kids could (could have) attend(ed) the the local CC college and pay/paid their tuition via working and unsubsidized student loans.</p>
<p>Re: #157</p>
<p>Work is an EC.</p>
<p>Fwiw, I believe that there are different types of poor students. Some come from stable and loving environments that are indeed low-income. Other come from broken homes and have little to no support at home, or even a ton of problems associated with their family, including criminal histories. </p>
<p>Schools with great financial aid can (and do) amazing things for their low-income students. Unfortunately, they cannot do much for fixing the at-home problems. In addition, some of the issues at home might actually preclude the student to obtain all the benefits he or she could have obtained. Think unfiled tax returns, deadbeat parent who refuse to file the correct documentation, or simply people living about their means (high salaries but high expenses and no savings for education.)</p>
<p>All in all, all the “studies” and “reports” that attempt to lump students in precise classes have a difficult time to paint the real picture of a student “financial” life at a rich school. In some cases, full or close to full paying students struggle massively when the parents cannot subsidize regular expenses. Finding an on campus job is that easy when the regular jobs are reserved for WS and need based help. This, of course, does not make the life of zero EFC students a walk in the park. </p>
<p>The bottom line is that VERY few young people have the life of luxury reported anecdotally. Most students have to watch their pennies! :)</p>
<p>Your kid’s lucky to have you BHM :)</p>
<p>I agree with ucb that work is an ec and a valuable one at that. </p>
<p>In addition to learning about money, contributing to your family (or just your own college fund or spending money), being on time, taking responsibility, etc etc…being paid for your skills says something about those skills that volunteering/being an unpaid intern doesn’t.</p>