<p>I realize how much of a joke it all is at the end of it all. Call me cynical, but really, I think it is over the top. Let me tell you all why I think that. It is not just CC, but also from my personal experiences. Everything that most students do in high school seem to point toward one goal: college. Then there are those who do not care. Now, that is not surprising, I found myself caught up in it at times. I know kids that would join or create clubs in order to have that it on a resume; a lot of them pursue "positions" in such clubs. I realize how many clubs lack substance, even with a "noble mission". They are merely a shell with a title. I stayed far away from those and still do. Kids also taking certain classes to beef up their transcript. You are just merely paying for an "AP" sticker, it truly adds no value and further deprives kids of the learning experience. Kids who manipulate the system so that their 4.0 from a class won't bring down their 4.23 gpa to a 4.227. I then realized that high school in the US was just a microcosm of the American society. I find it to be truly sad watching this. It is a society that is driven by results, not by the process to achieve that goal. That "A" is all what matters. That title and honor is all that matters. That in itself is a rather shallow observation; I will not leave it at that. </p>
<p>By any means am I stupid. I am not a sour kid that is ranting because I got rejected by colleges. I am just a man that sees a broader picture. We need to teach kids to not dwell in the ideology that success comes in letters and numbers, but that it comes with the satisfaction that comes from being delivered from ignorance.</p>
<p>edit: I feel as though if I have been cheated of a decent learning experience in school over that past couple years. Education just seemed to lacked a certain substance that I can't describe. Even with all my AP classes, I believe that most of my learning came outside of the classroom. This is coming from a kid who has preferred to talked to adults from a very young age. I am known to be resolute, tenacious and analytical. I guess you can say I am sick of the society I live in right now.</p>
<p>I think his point is that sometimes achievement is measured in very shallow ways. My son has said something similar. He has held tutoring sessions for classmates in his AP Calc BC class before finals and was shocked to realize that many of the students with straight A’s and astronomical test scores were memorizing formulas instead of simply understanding calculus. And in AP Lit, the only thing they did all year was read books and take AP style tests. No deep conversations. No arguing about what the author meant or didn’t mean. He took an Intro to Engineering course that is dual credit and fully weighted that he said was a joke. My kids also have no tolerance for doing anything “because it looks good on college applications.” I think clubs are great if they’re fun and/or meaningful, but OP is right about many clubs being formed just to have a club and a leadership role on file. And yes, he knows plenty of kids who won’t do classes that will lower their GPA by getting an A.</p>
<p>OP, if it’s any encouragement to you, my older son (HS 2010) didn’t play any games and ended up with a full tuition scholarship to a top 40 research U, and it certainly wasn’t because of grades or test scores (which were good but not outstanding). It was because of the things he did that truly had meaning and were unusual for a high schooler. </p>
<p>And I agree with your message - it’s really easy to feel like a lot is for show and a lot lacks substance. I’ve found myself, after watching 2 kids go through college applications, thinking about what my younger S (HS freshman) is doing and thinking “that will look good to colleges” and having to mentally smack myself. I like my weird kids who do what they are interested in and don’t worry about how “it will look.”</p>
<p>We didn’t play the games. My son did not want to join fake clubs or beef up a resume. We didn’t pay for counselors, my son took what he wanted to take. We all figured we want him being accepted by who he is. He applied to Lehigh and wrote a really interesting essay to their question of what course would you make required for all college students and why. It’s a huge game to get into college with very little distinguishing one person from another, and I seriously wonder about these over achievers. </p>
<p>You very rarely see adults as focused and joining as many things as you see high school kids doing.</p>
<p>David- I think that a lot of this is done out of panic and feeling pressured. Students hear about how hard it is to get accepted at certain colleges and some of them over react. The best thing to do is to focus on yourself and not worry about what the others are doing. I know that’s easier said than done :)</p>
<p>I can understand what you are saying but I think the student and their parents need to be responsible in making sure they are pursuing substance and not just results/numbers.
My D doesn’t belong to any clubs and she had never been an officer of anything except for cheerleader captain. What she has done since elementary school is pursue her passions that are dance and Cheerleading and gymnastics. </p>
<p>This may have “resulted” in a point or 2 less on the act due to not having time to study, missed school a few times, but I feel like she is loaded with a substance much more important than a 33 act score. I am hoping this is reflected in her apps. Sometimes it feels difficult to communicate the true scope of her experiences.</p>
<p>Yes, I pushed her to get all A’s but she chose to pursue what she loved not because it would look good, but because it was her passion. Who cares she was never president of her class. She was doing something better…in her eyes.</p>
<p>I don’t know why OP is so angry about the society or high school. No one asked you to join those fake clubs or run for office you didn’t like. You also didn’t have to take those APs. You could have taken courses you were interested in. </p>
<p>I just don’t understand all the whining sometimes. Both of my kid’s enjoyed high school. They didn’t like all of their courses, but they thought most of them were interesting. D2 is a writer, so she pursued the editor in chief position, but she would have done it with or without college application consideration. The only thing they really disliked was standardized testing. </p>
<p>D1 was a lot more active in college than high school. She held many leadership roles in her sorority, continued dancing in college, and was responsible for the senior week. Every EC she did in high school, she continued in college, so I would say those ECs were of genuine interest. D1 also excelled in math and science, and she graduated with a math degree. </p>
<p>Both of our kids took most “rigorous courses” and we’re “leaders” at their high school (to corner some of those college phrases). But they didn’t do it under duress, and they certainly are not bitter or whining about it.</p>
<p>Oldfort: “I just don’t understand all the whining sometimes.”</p>
<p>Easy to say that from the comfortable perspective of an adult with many more years under her belt, and having ushered a kid or two through the process already. </p>
<p>For the kids who are smack in the middle of high school, trying to do the best they can to swim through the murk to college, it isn’t so easy.</p>
<p>For kids who are fortunate enough to attend a high school where high expectations are the norm it is even worse. The high schools can add pressure, the other kids add pressure and parents can add pressure.</p>
<p>Even as an adult who has ushered two through this process with a minimal amount of outside pressure, there are times when I look at admission results of my kids’ friends and think that I don’t have a clue. And I’d guess most kids don’t feel as though they “get it” until well into their senior year … or much, much later.</p>
<p>To the OP- I think high school can be the kind of “joke” to which you refer. Also AP classes can be for resume value rather than deep learning, depending on the school. My D also chose not to “play the game” and followed her passion. She did not get into every place she wanted, but has settled down at Hampshire which wants students that realize success in life is more than a gpa. Keep on looking for situations where you learn best and find a college where you can do that. All is not dismal as there are many places and many kinds of learning, as you acknowledge. Good luck.</p>
<p>At my 2 S and now my D HS, those APs are no joke. They are rigorous, intense, discussion based classes, with tough grading. My DS2 - at UChicago - has indicated that one of his core professors does not grade as tough as his AP teachers in HS. </p>
<p>Passion is clearly evident, imho. There is also an element of luck in the whole admissions process.</p>
<p>I hear you, david… I really feel for kids who don’t have some parental guidance as they go through the gauntlet of high school. D was deeply involved in a club through middle school, dedicated to all kinds of wonderful things, curing poverty and hunger and ignorance, etc. In 8th grade she said “All we did was talk about how important this work is…I don’t think we helped one person.” Many kids stuck with that club and I’m sure it looks great on their resumes. And one school D interviewed at was very critical of her for not having such a thing on hers. But she had realized it was smoke and mirrors and gone on to other things, and other schools have been very, very receptive, even this early in the year. </p>
<p>I agree with anothermom that passion is clearly evident-- more than high school kids can quite guess with all the stuff they hear. Follow your interests, do what seems to make a real difference, live the way that makes sense to you-- then find a way to show who you are on your application. You’ll do fine. (I think you’re having a down moment, david-- maybe a chance to realize something new.)</p>
<p>I’m sorry the OP is having an angsty moment but he did it himself - applying to 20 colleges and ED to CMU. He is not only on the hamster wheel, he is helping to propel it.</p>
<p>I am angry at society because I feel sad for the others out there that are affected. I feel as though we are mere products that are being “manufactured” by the system. There is no room for self expression neither is there any pressure to do that. It is mostly this is how your older peers did it and that is how you will do it too. I do not feel bad that my parents did not hold hands with me through this process. I actively pushed them away from it. </p>
<p>I have yet to be rejected from a college, but it is still very early in the process and like Erin’s Dad said, I still have around 10 more schools to apply to. However, I probably will cut that number down to around 17 in total. </p>
<p>What I meant by a joke is that many teachers often quote: “that won’t be on the AP test”. </p>
<p>I’ll be honest, I love every class I have taken with an exception for the languages. However, it was those English classes that some meaningful discussions occurred. However, they weren’t part of the curriculum, but imposed upon by me a lot of times by bringing up some controversial points.</p>
<p>Also, regarding my GPA, I embrace it. Honestly, who cares what the system thinks of me. What I value most is being analytical, resolute and tenacious. Some kids would never fight for what they believe in and then criticize me.</p>
<p>I blame the adults. Why? Because they are the ones raising us from birth and imposing their beliefs and ideas on the kids at an early age. They, too, are the ones making decision and policies in the government. I am just lucky that I was born hard nosed.</p>
<p>There are a lot of kids who do well in school with zero ECs and that is all that is required in most state colleges. So if a kid does not put in the work, he/she has no way to succeed.</p>
<p>The way they assimilate knowledge is an entirely different story. Why should one pay deep attention to Calculus if they don’t intend to major in something Math related in college or what Homer’s Iliad has to tell us if they don’t care to major in English? There are requirements in high school that every student has to meet but every student who does well in school does not indeed care for every subject or in some cases every class they are in. </p>
<p>The same student who was unbelievably interested in Math one year completely loses it next year just because of the next grade teacher. That does not mean they should just dump it or do badly but just that they cope the best they can to get through it. 30 years after high school, there are some teachers I still remember vividly but there are some classes I don’t even remember attending but I know it was on my transcripts. </p>
<p>None of it means you should be blaming someone who wants to follow a path to reach their goal. You did not have a path of your own. Period.</p>
<p>I think what david says is totally accurate and I agree that it is such a shame. My younger daughter is always complaining how the APUSH kids know way less than she does, history is her passion but she couldn’t take APUSH because of the outlining that is required by this teacher and her LD that makes outlining practically impossible. (Yes, I know I could have pushed for modification but it wasn’t worth it.) There are some very respected schools who no longer offer AP classes because of the limitations to true learning - Scarsdale is one that immediately comes to mind, and their kids do quite well with college admission.</p>
<p>Neither of my kids focused on college while in high school until late junior year when SATs and such were required. They both took what they wanted to regardless of “how it looked” to colleges. I do remember when my older daughter was making her Science Research presentation a friend asked me if I thought the reason she got into Yale was because of this class. I immediately responded by saying that she got into Yale because she took a variety of classes she found interesting which showed Yale and other schools that she was a diverse learner who marched to her own drummer.</p>
<p>I believe that this whole college process has gotten out of hand for so many and it has robbed these kids of an enjoyable high school career and the ability to learn for the love of learning.</p>
<p>This sounds like an extension of the “Official Venting Thread” that kids started. There are groups of kids who have extremely intense parents - in our experience mostly culturally based from 3 specific cultural groups. These kids are really pushed over the top and many of these parents have only partial information about what it might take for their kid to be accepted into the schols that they are targeting. Kids are often pushed to do team robitic, math team, XYX save the world club etc. and I know of kids who were not allowed by their parent to take horticulture or some other non-weighted elective because it might mess up their class rank. The OP is not making this up. Unfortunately, if one goes to a high school with a large enough OCD culture some of that anxiety can rub off. Some kids just shrug and move on with their own things, but it’s tough if that is the prevailing culture. My D does have the grounding benefit of listening to friends complain about over the top parents, so I end up looking pretty mellow ;-)</p>