The College Board says that less than a 30 point difference in test scores is meaningless.
In 2005 Wikipedia reports "certain types of questions were eliminated (the analogies from the verbal and quantitative comparisons from the math section). The test was made marginally harder, as a corrective to the rising number of perfect scores. " It changed again in tests first given in 2016, Wikipedia writing “On March 5, 2014, the College Board announced its plan to redesign the SAT in order to link the exam more closely to the work high school students encounter in the classroom”
So put a meaningless score difference together with a test that has changed twice so that it only loosely resembles the tests given in 1998 and what can you conclude? Nothing…
@shuttlebus “it is very common to get an A in the AP class, but score a 1 or 2 on the actual exam.” Another thing I notice in the transcripts I review.
With 4 or 5 levels of each class (non college prep, college prep 1, college prep 2, honors. AP), there is likely room for A’s for most of the class. A GPA is meaningless without understanding the specific classroom requirements.
Students now have additional layers of testing to complete. State/National for graduation, HS tests/midterms/finals, ACT/SAT (more than once of course due to super scoring), AP exams, SAT subject tests.
We wonder why youth are stressed… The endless test hours required could be spent learning, socializing or exercising. They may be incredible test takers in college, but skills directly applicable to a career like research and writing and their overall mental health are declining.
Today at 4:52 pm @shuttlebus “it is very common to get an A in the AP class, but score a 1 or 2 on the actual exam.” Another thing I notice in the transcripts I review.
Exactly why the AP Tests, and SAT/ACT are necessary.
I think that because there are a lot more A’s floating around there at some schools, students feel additional pressure to go above and beyond to differentiate themselves with colleges, the high school and each other. D’s public HS class had 4 valedictorians (unweighted, so all 4.0 GPAs) - yeah, it was a pretty big deal. Another HS in a nearby district - known to be extremely competitive - had at least 45 the same year (same thing, unweighted GPA). So, to gain an edge on all of those other perfect GPA kids who are applying to all of the top level schools you are, you’re talking about loading up on AP’s, taking SAT/ACT multiple times, cramming in EC’s, etc., to the point where your resume is stuffed but you are beyond frazzled. And the expectations you and your parents and everyone else have are that you will wind up at an ivy. When that doesn’t happen (because those are a crap shoot for most people) and you have to “settle” for a school like Cal, it’s hugely disappointing. I feel sorry for kids like this who feel like failures. I’d rather a kid be less of an academic animal and wind up at a school they are thrilled to be at.
Some states are requiring that all students take either the ACT or the SAT (whichever organization the state contracts with) in place of state tests. This has the effect of lowering the overall scores, because students who would never have taken the ACT/SAT are forced to do so.
@foosondaughter Thank you for sharing. Did you notice in the abstract and conclusions of the study you shared, "We find that in the aggregate, Regents scores predict roughly as well as SAT scores but that high school grade-point average (HSGPA) based on only college-preparatory courses predicts substantially better than either set of tests. ".
We also need to keep in mind that the premise for modifying the SAT was to better reflect what students were learning in the classroom, specifically Commom Core…not to mention the equity issues. However, not all states follow Common Core. So were these states, like huge TX, excluded from the study? In addition, I found it interesting that the research cited in the OP article, was performed by the College Board. Why? Do these conclusions benefit the highly criticized College Board? Not to mention that the researchers used transcripts from 1996-2016, which makes me wonder how conclusions can be drawn using SAT scores from 1996-2015, as we know that the old SAT did not correlate with state education standards.
Someone mentioned kids making A’s in AP classes, but getting 1’s or 2’s on the exam. Our oldest barely got a D in AP English but a 4 on the exam. My explanation, and would probably agree: he hated school but is an exceptional test taker. Tests certainly aren’t good predictors for this kind of student. AP English exam score and course grade lined up pretty well for son 2, though.
^ @mstomper Another factor could be that some teachers push their kids very hard in AP classes (key word, some) and the students hate them for it. I didn’t exactly have a soft spot for my Calc teacher and how mind-numbingly difficult his class was, but I got a 5 on the AP. It seems kids either get easy As in AP classes but fail the tests, or the opposite.
A major factor here is the availability of many different levels of the same topic area in most high schools. Students select classes carefully with an eye towards choosing classes they know they will do well in. Then, faced with prospect of getting a B (oh no, heaven help him/her) they can usually drop down a level. The upshot is that many students have never experienced a grade in the B range. They tend to have an inflated impression of their own abilities. And, when they get to college, they often flip out if they sense their grade isn’t going to be in the A range. Some will barter, plead, lie, beg and if nothing else works, complain. Some will badger the prof endlessly, begging for EC or a break or a deal. It is pitiful/pathetic/sickening. More and more, the students appear as fragile little snow flakes who feel their lives are ruined if the prof is unwilling to be pressured to make up an A grade for students who have not earned them. Pathetic!
Basically with few exceptions, grades are meaningless. That is true in high school and in college. Many profs will hand out A’s to avoid confrontations. There are a few rigorous colleges with faculty member who don’t allow students to badger but most do.
Grade inflation + parents doing kids’ work + an overwhelmingly stressful academic scene + easy curriculum passed off as difficult + self-important students + stressed out and tired teachers who lack motivation because of low wages = a lot of straight-A students.
Grade inflation is definitely a problem. It seems to be especially bad in history, government, and econ. How do you evaluate “critical thinking” in a content-focused essay or a speech? In my English classes, grammar and conventions provide a standard to aim at. But many learning targets in history are so soft and subjective that it’s very difficult for teachers to give anything less than an A or B.
For example, here is a state education standard for American history:
“Analyze the history, culture, tribal sovereignty, and historical and current issues of the American Indian tribes and bands in Oregon and the United States.”
It would be very difficult to mark a student down if they have clearly completed the assignment/essay/response.
@ekdad212 Yes, class rank may be more telling than absolute GPA. But it still doesn’t tell the whole story. Not all high schools are created equal. College admissions has the difficult task of finding which students from low-performing high schools have the capability to compete at top universities, and which lower-ranked students (but still top 5-10%) from competitive privates and large UMC suburb schools will be an asset to the university.
Yesterday at 11:49 pm edited July 25
A major factor here is the availability of many different levels of the same topic area in most high schools. Students select classes carefully with an eye towards choosing classes they know they will do well in. Then, faced with prospect of getting a B (oh no, heaven help him/her) they can usually drop down a level. The upshot is that many students have never experienced a grade in the B range. They tend to have an inflated impression of their own abilities. And, when they get to college, they often flip out if they sense their grade isn’t going to be in the A range. Some will barter, plead, lie, beg and if nothing else works, complain. Some will badger the prof endlessly, begging for EC or a break or a deal. It is pitiful/pathetic/sickening. More and more, the students appear as fragile little snow flakes who feel their lives are ruined if the prof is unwilling to be pressured to make up an A grade for students who have not earned them. Pathetic!
Basically with few exceptions, grades are meaningless. That is true in high school and in college. Many profs will hand out A’s to avoid confrontations. There are a few rigorous colleges with faculty member who don’t allow students to badger but most do.
^^ I completely agree with this. But, I am dumbfounded when I see colleges stating that “The best predictor of college success is high school grades”. I guess maybe it’s the anti-SAT types with this logic? We have been to two highly rated high schools. At one school, it’s easy to get A’s, even in AP classes - and top students there took 10-14 AP courses. At other school, even the top students get some B’s, the Honors classes are very hard - some harder than AP classes - and kids take maybe 6-8 AP courses.
Also, I have a friend who has all A’s first two years of HS, in standard classes. The kid (and mom) can’t handle the thought of a B, so takes easiest classes. Our HS is dropping class rank for this reason, and also for the other side of it, where the weighted averages give artificially inflated GPA’s.
So, IMO, not all A students are created equally - not within a school, and not across different schools. But then there’s so much focus on “rigor”, which is driving many students into a stressful high school experience.