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<p>I don’t see how this could possibly be true. The number of students who get into elite schools due to wealth is much, much smaller than the number who get in for race. </p>
<p>Also, if colleges got rid of preferences for wealthy kids, they might just get more non-Asian minorities to fill these spots (not that there would be many of them).</p>
<p>The college Asian myth of being discriminated in college acceptance is up there with, “I’m so beautiful I can not get a date”. Both refuse to accept the reason for the rejection, which has little to do w/race or beauty. But hey if you need a reason to give a Tiger Mom for a school rejecting you its the perfect card to play, and Mom will want to believe it.</p>
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<p>Excuse me. How does instating race-BLIND admissions constitute DISCRIMINATION?</p>
<p>And how do you know that “48 of those 55 chose not to enroll” as a result of the lack of “diversity”? You interviewed all forty-eight, and they told you in the flesh?</p>
<p>Are you trying to tell me that race-BLIND admissions is the equivalent of a School Ties “Go Home [racial epithet]” poster being tacked onto an “URM”'s dorm door?</p>
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<p>Way to straw man me. At least I had the honesty to characterize your position neutrally as supporting “equality of RESULT, by any means necessary.”</p>
<p>I support equality of OPPORTUNITY. I could care less if results weren’t “proportional.”</p>
<p>How come no one ever talks about this:</p>
<p>There are too many black athletes in the NBA and NFL.</p>
<p>Hey, collegealum314, I believe you are talking about the progressive tax system, which is the tax system that the United States currently uses. And yes, I do think it’s fair. To talk about salary, Asian Americans, on average, earn more than any other race. In the U.S., this means they get taxed more. But, they also enjoy the benefits of high incomes, even after tax. I think it’s perfectly fair, and the same analogy can be made with college admissions.</p>
<p>And sorry, fabrizio, but I think it’s people like you who are “part of the problem”, in confirming to the stereotype that Asians care about little else than getting into a good college and therefore “ahead” in life. Do you HONESTLY believe that Asian Americans are treated like “crap” in the U.S.? Do you KNOW any black people? Especially poor blacks? From whence does your martyr complex stem?</p>
<p>"How is the playing field level when one racial group has a fifteen-times advantage over another?/’ </p>
<p>“I can’t count how many fellow Asians have muttered these five words: “I wish I was black.”
Siliconvalleymom…
I always have to ask this… from a mom; not a kid… would you REALLY wish your kid was black? Not at college application time, when the black kid applying has way different odds then he had at birth. I’m talking at birth. when your kid was born, did you think,” I wish you were black; your odds would be spectacular!"</p>
<p>I did NOT wish my (black) kids where anything else. Nor did I think…" JACKPOT!..Fifteen times advantage!"</p>
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<p>That Asians have a more difficult time getting into college than other races, all other things being equal, is an established fact.</p>
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<p>Probably because most people are willing to accept that height and athletic ability vary by race.</p>
<p>As an undergrad at a prestigious university, I can understand the diversity argument, and that would be the only argument that I would take in justifying affirmative action.</p>
<p>However, I think the argument justifying AA because Asians are culturally-advantaged stereotypes every single Asian out there and makes hard-work, a virtue, seem more like a sin. Instead of punishing Asians for sacrificing at a young age and putting in hard-work, it’s better to change the cultural mindset of the US to care more about the value of hard-work instead of letting kids waste their brains away playing video games… I’m not saying the Asian culture is superior, but I’m sure that no one doubts that valuing education is important. (again, this doesn’t mean that kids should slave away doing math practice problems every day; play is important too)</p>
<p>Also, although Asians on the whole do prize education more than other races, this fact by itself does NOT put Asians at an advantage. It’s like saying that everyone in China has a gigantic advantage academically than people in the US–this is entirely BS. Many Chinese people are still farmers and even if they do care about education, they don’t know how to help their kids to learn. They are illiterate and have to toil in the fields all day (or are migrant workers) – how the hell are they supposed to take care of their kids and push them to succeed?</p>
<p>Only people who care about education AND have the resources will be able to push their kids academically. The only reason that Asians have been doing so well is because many Asian immigrants in the past have been selected from the cream of the crop from Asia – people who already came from pretty good backgrounds. THAT’S why they do well in school. It’s like taking families from Africa who are pretty good academically and have them move to the US – their kids would all turn out well too (and, just a side note, 50% of blacks in the top schools usually come from Africa).</p>
<p>So, in terms of justifying disadvantaging certain races due to culture…it’s so blatant that it’s a severe form of discrimination. </p>
<p>However, on the other end, I actually do agree somewhat with AA. I would like it more to be based on economic factors – I think this would be A LOT more fair, because it targets the race issue as well but gets to the root of the problem (it’s socioeconomics, NOT race!)</p>
<p>Being in college, I definitely appreciate how much diversity there is on campus. I think it allows people to be a lot more open to other cultures and also allows you, as a student, to experience what diversity offers – shows put on by student cultural groups, information about different countries, and a lot more. So, I think diversity is a worthwhile thing that needs to be protected in the top universities.</p>
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<p>Not exactly. What I meant was, if an Asian and a white person both made $100,00 (say after normal taxes,) would it be fair to levy an additional tax on them for being Asian. That was the question.</p>
<p>@woeishe ^^ True. Blacks hate whites for past injustices and continue to do so to this day. Education is viewed as being “white”. Thus blacks also hate education by extension. To a black person it seems like the world is against them. The police are usually beating up black people. Black people are the ones usually getting arrested. The people begging in the public spaces and trying to sell random merchandise are usually black. Black fathers usually abandon their children. There are a lot of negative stereotypes associated with being black. I wish all the people claiming that black people possess significant advantages over asians would try being black for a year just to see how it feels.</p>
<p>The discrimination was a result of being so under-represented. I’m not suggesting the admissions office discriminated. I’m suggesting the resulting student body was particularly discriminatory. </p>
<p>If all variables were equal under your “equal opportunity,”, the results would be proportional. That’s how statistics work. The fact of the matter is, all variables are not equal, and there would be SEVERE disproportion. This may be good for you. This may be good for me. This is not good for the disadvantaged groups. It would remove progress they have made and feed into a negative feedback loop.</p>
<p>“Equal opportunity” means giving everyone an equal opportunity. To you that may mean comparing every student directly. To myself, and to most admissions office, that means considering the achievements and shortcomings of each student in light of the resources and capital available/invested in their upbringing.</p>
<p>Alright but I’m done here for real.</p>
<p>fallenxstar: I agree with you on a lot of accounts.</p>
<p>Amen, fallenxstar. Amen.</p>
<p>“hat Asians have a more difficult time getting into college than other races, all other things being equal, is an established fact”</p>
<p>Help me out here. I have trouble with odds. Are you saying a child born Asian in the US is 15 times less likely to get into college than a white or black kid? I am just looking for some hope; some reassurance. Not that you odds are bad, but that my kids odds are good.</p>
<p>Grasping at straws , and wanting to spread “The Truth” in my community. I thought a kid born black was less likely. I would LOVE to tell them just being black made them 15 times more likely to get into an elite college. And maybe even graduate! </p>
<p>No? Yeah, yeah. I know… it’s our fault. Got it. can live with that. Harder with 15 times better odds, “all things being equal (from birth?) an established fact”, and still an achievement gap.</p>
<p>Or maybe you mean an Asian kid APPLYING to college? Applying to a ELITE college?</p>
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<p>I guess I have to list my bona fides. I went to a public high school in south Georgia. During my senior year, my high school was 50% black, 45% white, and 5% “other.” In 2008-2009, the last year for which the state has data, 49% of my high school was “economically disadvantaged”; that is, 49% qualified for free or reduced lunch.</p>
<p>You want to talk to me about living in a cultural bubble? You want to talk to me about not having any first-hand information on this? Please. I won’t make any assumptions about you as you did to me. Please tell us about your high school. Is it public or private? Do you know the breakdown by racial classification? Do you know how many qualify for free or reduced lunch?</p>
<p>“…in light of the resources and capital available/invested in their upbringing.”
you don’t know what they’re upbringing was based on race. that’s, again, stereotypical and prejudice. you can’t assune these things like that.</p>
<p>alright, I’m proper leaving. until tomorrow anyways- by which time there will be 20 more posts xD</p>
<p>fabrizio, I don’t think you know what “equality of opportunity” means. It means that other minority groups, and yes I am talking about blacks and Hispanics, are excluded from the same benefits that most Asian students enjoy by sheer dint of being born into an Asian family. How many Asian parents do you know who have NOT supported their child’s education, or were willing to pay for it? </p>
<p>Listen, I’m on my gap year right now, and I spent significant time in a program in New York that was affiliated with the poorest schools in the city. The schools were ****. Even the brightest kid would lose heart in a place like that. I sure would. Coincidentally, most students in schools like that were black. The disadvantages they suffer at an early age will be with them for the rest of their life. </p>
<p>I was born in Chicago, but my Asian parents moved to an expensive suburb which they could, at the time, barely afford, just so I could attend a fancier, wealthier kindergarten. They have subsidized my entire (pricey, private) education for my entire life, even though we’re middle class. This is the norm for almost all Asian kids that I know. Your experience is probably different than mine, but from what I see, if you have been PUNISHED (as you put) in life, it’s likely not because you’re Asian but because of your inability to see beyond race.</p>
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<p>Please read my post #76. Those are my bona fides. I don’t think you have them.</p>
<p>Personally as an Asian-American, I don’t mind Affirmative Action necessarily, but I do not want to have a clear disadvantage in college admissions either. Though people generalize that Asian parents are very strict, “Tiger” parents, mine are very laid back and practically not even involved in the college admissions process. They make less than 40,000 dollars a year and I would never ask for them to pay for expensive SAT classes or anything like that. So I do everything by myself–I bought the SAT book and studied from it myself. I get good grades and push myself to take AP classes because I want to, not because someone is pulling the strings behind me. All my friends had their parents fill out FAFSA for them, but I had to fill it out alone.</p>
<p>"2. asians do not have an advantage over, say, cultures where “education is less stressed.” an asian getting a 4.0 and a hispanic getting a 4.0 have to put in the same amount of work (not including IQs, etc., none of which have to do with race. "</p>
<p>-why should culture be a huge factor nowadays when education is drilled into our heads at birth? More and more kids are going to college, so I don’t even see it as a cultural thing anymore. It’s practically a crime to say that you don’t plan on higher education.</p>
<p>Race-blind admissions seems to be the best solution for all of this. Why not just eliminate the problem altogether?</p>