Asian Americans sue University of California System over Holistic Admissions sham

<p>SSobick are you going to come up with anything that backs up your claims or are you going to continue to just say the same thing over and over again? Like I said earlier repetition does not make one right. And seriously, "social engineering" I blew that out of the water a few posts ago. The only thing that is ridiculous or "pie in the sky" is thinking that someone has the power to force "social engineering" through an admissions process. </p>

<p>I hope Asian American students do return to the political activism they exhibited when they entered Affirmative Action programs in the early 70s. Asian American Studies and faculty are HIGHLY underrepresented in California schools from the university on down.</p>

<p>I'm not trying to protect a white "minority" -- I was simply pointing out that white students are underrepresented at University of California system schools, which they are.</p>

<p>Also, "that doesn't make your argument right?" What argument? I didn't even MAKE an argument -- I simply stated that Asian Americans are overrepresented -- sometimes grossly so (gross not being a negative descriptor but a general adjective about the magniture of their overrepresentation) and that is causing some groups of students to be underrepresented, which includes white students and more severely Latino and black students.</p>

<p>SSobick, you have yet to demonstrate how holistic admissions disregards the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.</p>

<p>The EPC says, "No state shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The Supreme Court has already ruled that quota systems in college admissions are unconstitutional, but using affirmative action programs that give equal access to minorities is constitutional and okay to do. So it would be wrong, under the Equal Protection Clause, to have two different admissions systems -- one for white students and one for underrepresented miniorities (as UC-Davis did under this system), but not necessarily wrong to use race as a factor in admissions, as the Court ruled that universities have an interest in maintaining the diversity of their student body.</p>

<p>Justice Powell wrote in his opinion that race could be used as a "plus factor" (just like playing an obscure instrument or being fluent in 3 languages), and Harvard University's admission process (which uses holistic reviews in its admissions as a form of affirmative action) was submitted as an example of a constitutional program. The Court later upheld the idea that using race in admissions as a factor is constitutional in Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. Bollinger. Awarding "points" to minority students on the basis of race in a formulaic approach to admissions is unconstitutional. However, considering race more abstractly was not unconstitutional.</p>

<p>Quota systems and points systems like the ones UC-Davis and University of Michigan used are not only discriminatory and unconstitutional, they do not address the material problem of underrepresented minorities being underrepresented. By banning quota systems and other forms of unconstitutional preference, schools have been forced to enable other programs that improve minority students chances -- like recruiting excellent minority students from early on, establishing summer programs and enrichment programs for minority students, and forming aid programs that enable the truly outstanding minority students to go to the schools they desire.</p>

<p>Likewise, the issue here is not to use pure numbers -- "Oh, there are too many Asians, we need to scale back." The problem with this is that there's no examination of WHY Asian students are so overrepresented at these schools (beyond the stereotypical "Well, Asians are really good at math and science and they just do better in school than other students.")</p>

<p>I could be the daughter of a Native American casino owner and go wherever the hell I want with Affirmative Action, regardless of the fact that I'd be kicking out a place for an Asian American merely because I'm Native American and neglecting the fact that I could be super rich.</p>

<p>Seriously, I understand Aff Action when it comes to terms with economical standing, but wt.f is race? Somebody mentioned above that "Asians come with similar names, similiar faces, similar blah blah..." well guess what, I think everyone on this planet looks alike: two eyes, one nose, one mouth, one brain, whatnot.</p>

<p>"Like I said earlier repetition does not make one right. And seriously, "social engineering" I blew that out of the water a few posts ago. "</p>

<p>Only in your own mind professor.</p>

<p>I think we all know what is going on here. I applaud the Asian Americans for fighting this corruption.</p>

<p>post #38


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<p>post #42


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<p>juillet, since you believe so strongly that Asian American students are "grossly overrepresented" at UCs, will you enlighten us what should be the correct percentage of Asian Americans?</p>

<p>post #38

The title of the book is "The Chosen: The Hidden History of Admission and Exclusion at Harvard, Yale and Princeton" by Jerome Karabel, a sociologist at Cal. You should read it. </p>

<p>In 1920s-1950s, HYP solved their "Jewish problem" by using the holistic admission process. Harvard reduced its Jewish student population from a peak of 25% down to 10-15%; by your standard it would still have been a "gross over-representation", since Jews only constituted about 1% of the population. Towards the end of the book, there is also a relatively brief discussion about diversity, the Bakke case, and controversies about admission of Asian American students.</p>

<p>^ Times change but corrupt public policies remain.</p>

<p>Holistic Admissions is unfair, undemocratic, and most importantly unconstitutional.</p>

<p>^ thirded</p>

<p>At my school, all the ELECTED officers for National Honors Society are Asian American but Asians only constitute about 25% of the school. Does that mean they're "grossly overrepresented" and need to be replaced?</p>

<p>And yes, this is actually a leadership role where Asian Americans show dominance, not just a head-in-books kind of position.</p>

<p>"Holistic Admissions is unfair, undemocratic, and most importantly unconstitutional. "</p>

<p>Can you elaborate. Other than repeating you don't seem to be contributing to this discussion in any substantive way. Maybe I can help.</p>

<p>1) Define your version of "holistic admission" what does this phrase conjure up for you?
2) What is your vision of what would be a "democratic" admission process?
3) SPECIFICALLY and in the context of a legal argument, what makes it unconstitutional.</p>

<p>And NO CHEATING, you cannot bite off of someone else's post like you have been subject to doing.</p>

<p>Sitting here in middle america, I am having a little trouble following this. Are people concerned because in their view, not enough asians are getting into the ivies and or the UCs? I feel there is a real sense that people feel they are being passed over unfairly.</p>

<p>Again from my location, I wonder why the students don't spread out their applications further in order to maximize geographic diversity and cultural diversity. An asian from California could get good merit money from Grinnell, Kenyon, or St Olaf. Instead of complaining about Affirmative Action why not use it for your advantage?</p>

<p>Putting on my flame proof suit...</p>

<p>Members requested a while back that CC set up a forum for the UC system in general. Since this thread is about the UC system in general, the thread has been moved to the UC general forum. </p>

<p>Carry on, remembering the Terms of Service </p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_new_faq_item&lt;/a> </p>

<p>about politeness and language in posts, and thanks to the OP for finding the news link and opening the thread.</p>

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<p>I think we all know what is going on here. I applaud the Asian Americans for fighting this corruption.

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<p>So do I.
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<p>
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Again from my location, I wonder why the students don't spread out their applications further in order to maximize geographic diversity and cultural diversity. An asian from California could get good merit money from Grinnell, Kenyon, or St Olaf. Instead of complaining about Affirmative Action why not use it for your advantage?

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That is clearly an option but a student should not feel disadvantaged because of their race at any school.</p>

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Members requested a while back that CC set up a forum for the UC system in general. Since this thread is about the UC system in general, the thread has been moved to the UC general forum.

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I disagree that this should only apply to UCs. The topic may have been initiated with a UC example, but the dangers of the policy apply across all states as that is the nature of racism and discrimation.</p>

<p>I'm an Asian and have to say these Asian groups that are suing UC Regents should **** off. What they're doing is undermining the achievements of most Asians here as if we "need" the current admission systems to succeed. </p>

<p>Although SAT II was an objective measure of an applicant, I believe it was a flawed objective measure (I got over 700 on both of my subject tests so I'm not trying to pick sour grapes) especially for Math and Physics: a high school student shouldn't be knowing quantum, relativistic, and thermal physics and when that student tries to "crash-learn" these topics, s/he'll learn the wrong concept.</p>

<p>The holistic admission process increases diversity? That's absurd. What it really achieves is embracing mediocrity.</p>

<p>Lol, the reason why many Asian countries are starting to outperform the US nowadays is because they don't have Aff. Action programs that discriminate against Asians ;)</p>

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Lol, the reason why many Asian countries are starting to outperform the US nowadays is because they don't have Aff. Action programs that discriminate against Asians

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<p>... maybe that's because they're Asian countries and it would make absolutely no sense to have affirmative action programs that discriminate against the majority of the population?</p>

<p>exactly. couldn't have agreed more.</p>

<p>Check the stats, there are more Asian Americans at UCB and UCLA than whites so where is the discrimination?</p>

<p>College</a> Search - University of California: Berkeley - At a Glance </p>

<p>College</a> Search - University of California: Los Angeles - UCLA - At a Glance </p>

<p>(Scroll down for the ethnicity figures reported to the federal government for the most recent entering class.)</p>