Asian obsession with prestige

College Search & Selection
61

<p>OK - please forgive my mini-hijack of this thread, but the thread title drew me in.</p>

<p>I visit the Harvard campus two or three times a year. Front and center on the Old Yard is a statue of John Harvard. It’s actually a silly statue - since there was never any portrait made of him in the 17th century, no one really know what John Harvard looked like. The statue erroneously identifies him as the school’s founder (he was only a benefactor), and even gets the date of the founding wrong! For this reason, it’s widely ignored by most people but for the cadre of intoxicated male freshmen who perpetuate the tradition of doing something unspeakable on John’s (ironically appropriate name) foot in the middle of the night.</p>

<p>But throughout the day, every day, there is a constant swarm of Asian people who take endless photographs of the statue. They pose with it and take turns taking each other’s photo with it. Sometimes it appears that a large group is on a tour and that the statue is one of the highlights. All sorts of people may stop to look at it or snap a quick picture, but for the Asian visitors it’s clearly a relic of great renown and significance.</p>

<p>Does anyone know what’s behind this?</p>

62

<p>^^^Proof they went to Harvard, of course!^^^</p>

63

<p>

What has been the track record of CMC graduates who have tried to obtain employment in Asia? If you don’t know the answer to that, then you don’t really know the answer to the OP’s question. This is not just about how famous a school is; it’s also about what kinds of connections and programs exist. CMC is a lot smaller than Berkeley, certainly. But some small schools have very good job placement programs. How is CMC’s? My point is that the OP needs to do some additional research–certainly including talking to CMC directly–before concluding that it would be better to go to Berkeley than CMC.</p>

64

<p>RML,
This is how we’ll see it in America.</p>

<p>from Tampa, FL
Oh, you went to UC Berkeley. Is that any relation to the University of California? </p>

<p>from Charlotte, NC:
Oh, you went to UC Berkeley. How unusual? What are you doing in this part of the world?? What were the hippies like? Are they anything like the folks we see when we visit Chapel Hill??</p>

<p>from St. Louis, MO:</p>

<p>Oh, you went to UC Berkeley. Well, we don’t see many of your type in this neck of the woods. By the way, I loved “The Graduate.” That was set there, wasn’t it? Such a pretty campus. Didn’t Tiger Woods go there?</p>

<p>From Boston, MA</p>

<p>Oh, you went to UC Berkeley and studied economics. That’s a nice program, I guess, but did you ever consider going to the Ivy League or maybe to Stanford? </p>

<p>From Dallas, TX
Oh, you went to UC Berkeley and got an economics degree. So what?</p>

<p>From Los Angeles, CA</p>

<p>Oh, you went to UC Berkeley. Wow, what a mess that is right now with the funding and all. I’ve heard plenty of stories about large class sizes and kids not being able to get the courses they need to graduate on time and how there’s little to no help for most students. Probably going to get a lot worse now with all of the budget cuts. Hey, maybe you should take that degree and go to Asia because the people there don’t have a clue about American colleges and will still think that UCB is the cat’s meow. Anyway, good luck to you dudes.</p>

65

<p>Where did you get that WUSTL undergrads have 90%+ acceptance to medical school?</p>

66

<p>Hey fortify,
You can find the statistics in the Premed Supplement to PreHealth handbook here: [Life</a> Sciences Forms | The College | Arts & Sciences](<a href=“http://college.artsci.wustl.edu/prehealth/forms]Life”>http://college.artsci.wustl.edu/prehealth/forms)
As you can see, even at low GPA ranges, Washington University undergrads have a strong shot at medical schools. This is not usually typical for many universities. </p>

<p>That’s also what it says on the brochure I requested from them, and my dad who is a doctor confirmed that given Wasington University’s reputation for premedical and medical studies, that the statistic is most possible. So there is some anecdotal besides statistical evidence. Hope that helps.</p>

<p>@ hawkette and the OP:
It’s very true. A lot of times prestige and reputation is solely a regional thing.
Again OP, if you are considering graduate work, go to the top graduate school program in your field. Graduate school admissions will look more at how you performed than the name of your undergraduate institution. And if you’re going to graduate school, employees will look more at the graduate school you went to than your undergraduate (not saying they won’t look at both, but there will be stronger emphasis on your most recent education)</p>

67

<p>Wow… Thanks for all the help everyone.
Just to make things clear, I don’t just go to Japan for a week or two at a time. Sometimes I do for winter/spring breaks, but over the summer, I’m there for at least 1 month, 2 months sometimes. I’ve had work experience, working for my uncle’s firm in Marunouchi.</p>

<p>There has been alot of stuff said in this topic so I’ll try to answer them all in one post.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Jamappelle-I’ve visited every single school I’ve applied to (besides Cornell) and I feel that despite the fact that they are all very different, I can see myself at these schools because they have what I’m looking for (Good study abroad programs, strong econ/business programs, good/decent location, and as an added bonus established b-boying(breakdancing or whatever you’d like to call it) crews in the area). </p>

<p>The reason I ask for help is because I like all these schools, and if I ever approach a tie between a prestigious school and a less prestigious school, if it would ever be alright to choose the prestigious school purely based on name recognition. (I know I worded that weird but I hope you know what I’m getting at).</p>

<p>I would hate to make this mistake if it were true…:

</p>

<p>I’d love to know that employment information of grads of these schools that work in Asia but I’m not exactly sure where to find that kind of information.</p>

<p>The things that RML is stating are the reasons I will probably end up at Berkeley over Claremont if I got into both. I have never met a Japanese-native(born in Japan, worked in Japan) that has ever heard of Claremont McKenna. And this is from asking some of my dad’s colleagues. He has worked for Goldman Sachs Japan and is currently in the Hedge Fund industry.</p>

<p>Now, I just used Claremont McKenna as an example. How would my other schools that I applied to match up against each other in Asia?</p>

<p>Once again, thanks for all your help everyone.</p>

68

<p>Do you want to work in Asia so badly that you’ll play the silly little game of “it doesn’t matter who you are, it’s what university you went to”? If you’re comfortable compromising because all else pales in comparison to What the Asians Think, then go for it, go to Berkeley and don’t look back. It’s a fine school.</p>

<p>However, if there’s more subtlety and nuance to your thinking that winning a future popularity contest, go where you’re best suited (which might be Berkeley, might be CMC, might be any one of a number of places).</p>

<p>I love the assumption that the only way to play the game is to play it the way it’s been played. Why not be the game-changer – the person who IS so impressive that a future employer will want to get a hold of you, regardless of whether they’ve heard of your college or not? Why not exude some self-confidence instead of this pathetic “have I impressed you enough” mindset?</p>

69

<p>^
To answer your first question: Yes, I want to work in Japan that badly. I’ve gone through alot in my life in terms of identity, growing up in America without any kind of Japanese community, playing in front of Team USA coaches in the National Team Development Camps, having a career ending injury, meeting Japanese people, enjoying Japan for the first (but not last) time. I want to get in touch with who I really am, a person of Japanese descent. I’m sure there are several ways to get in touch with your own identity but I feel that for the first 17 years of my life, I’ve been just an American with the Japanese part completely missing. I want to, at least for the beginning of my career, and probably even later on, work in Japan.</p>

<p>I loved Claremont McKenna, I really did, I visited last spring and it was really awesome. However, I loved some other schools I visited too, and I do not have a clear number 1 choice. Hell, I don’t even have a clear top 5. I could see myself at any of the schools I applied to. </p>

<p>IF, Claremont, on April 30th was my first choice and on May 1st I was to sign paperwork to go there, would I end up regretting it in the future? (I guess that was my initial question all along). </p>

<p>I’m not as close minded as you may think, if I was, I probably wouldn’t have applied to Claremont to begin with.</p>

70

<p>One of the previous posters suggested that you check out the career placement offices at the schools you are interested in. I thought this was a really good idea. It could be that Claremont has all kinds of success with placing students overseas.</p>

<p>Career placement varies widely between schools. I graduated from a small LAC and the career placement there was terrific. The person who helped me had all kinds of contacts and advice and was full of encouragement when I was discouraged. He was instrumental in helping me find my first job.</p>

<p>Later when I graduated from a large university with an advanced degree I was expecting the same kind of help from their career placement office. Boy was I wrong. The person working there was absolutely worthless, she was just terrible, I can’t overemphasize how bad she was. I ended up going back to the career advisor at my old LAC and he helped me again.</p>

71

<p>If your dad’s friends at Goldman are anything like the Goldman folks that I have known, then going to Claremont will not hurt you. GS likes to hire top students from top schools and any hiring manager willing to do a little digging will quickly learn that Claremont McKenna is a top undergraduate school in America. </p>

<p>If they can find the right talents, Goldman and the other major Wall Street banks will gladly hire from any of the small and excellent NE LACs such as Amherst, Williams, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Haverford, Wellesley, Middlebury, Vassar, Wesleyan, Colgate, etc. (Have your dad’s friends heard of any of these? If not, then they’re totally clueless). All attract a more consistently strong student population than is found at UC Berkeley. The same could also be said for Claremont McKenna. </p>

<p>And if you want to see comparisons of UC Berkeley to any and all of the above LACs, then I’d be happy to provide some datapoints for you. The differences are stark.</p>

72

<p>Another thought–look at CMC’s website and see if there is an organization of Asian students. Contact the leader and ask him or her for input. Do the same for the other schools that interest you. See if there are organizations of international students and do the same.</p>

73

<p>If you could get into Berkeley then you probably would have a pretty good shot at Cornell. Cornell is the one to go. It’s a target school for many firms and you would be eligible to go to the Ivy Ball in HK. That’s the prom to go to.</p>

74

<p>I totally second this sentiment about Asian obsession with “Name Brand” school. We are from India originally but been living in USA most of our lives. It is sad for our kids to live up to the pressure we put on our kids to go to a prestigious school. More than the focus is for getting a quality education it is to live up to our community. It is a competition among the other Indian parents which school your child is attending. If it isn’t the Ivys or NYU or any popular school then you are not good enough. So our kids study so hard to get 4.0 GPA 2200+ in SAT and EC like working in a hospital or started a charity in India just to tell your Indian relatives and friends you got in to the “it” school. It is very very sad!</p>

75

<p>

Of course they would. Berkeley is 20 times the size of some LACs. They cannot be compared, and if you attempt to compare them with average statistics, you are being disingenuous.</p>

<p>

Oooohh…let’s keep up that obsession with prestige…“Ivy prestige” now!..:rolleyes:</p>

76

<p>RML… Ivy Plus is the biggest fail I have ever heard of in my life. Bunch of sub-Ivy undergraduates trying to piggy-back with the Ivies? Is that how you developed your delusional Berkeley arrogance? As mentioned before, people who actually went to Ivy League schools do not recognize this “Ivy Plus” nonsense. You are either Ivy League or not. It’s as euphemistic as the whole “Public Ivies” concept. People actually associated with the Ivy League laugh at this, and at people like you. Berkeley may be prestigious in Asia, but hardly holds as much weight as you say outside of the West Coast. Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Brown, Columbia, Berkeley… Pick out the one that doesn’t belong. It isn’t hard. Berkeley is not in the same league. Nice try. It isn’t an Ivy, there is no Ivy Plus, and the morons who made Ivy Plus are hardly any kind of authority on university prestige. </p>

<p>To put it bluntly, an Ivy League educated person would not use an Ivy Plus list of prestige as a definitive argument on evaluating a college’s prestige.</p>

<p>RML = Fail
Ivy Plus = Fail</p>

77

<p>^ For the record, RML didn’t attend Berkeley…he attended Oxford.</p>

<p>

Heh…let me try…based on undergraduate statistics, Berkeley. Taken as a research institution as a whole, Berkeley fits.</p>

78

<p>If I am following the thread correctly, OP is concerned about “prestige.” He is the one that applied to Cornell, Berkeley, CMC…So why pretend the prestige of Berkeley when Cornell has more of a cache in Asia, or anywhere in the world? Why go to the Ivy Plus Ball, when you could just go to to THE Ivy Ball. UCB - or are you on to something I am not?</p>

79

<p>I didn’t go thru every post. Can someone tell me why go to the Ivy/Ivy Plus Ball is relevant here when choosing a college?</p>

80

<p>It is suppose to be prestigious in Asia.</p>