<p>One question i would like to pose, considering i'm part asian, is if that will help or hurt my application. I understand that williams is only about 9% asian, while other top schools like stanford and harvard are close to or above 20%. is this because williams rejects a higher percentage of asians, or is it because williams does not have a relatively high percentage of asians applying? obviously if the latter is true, being asian should help, and the vice versa.</p>
<p>Good question. Forget Harvard, Williams also has a lower percentage of Asian American students that many of the top northeast liberal arts colleges.</p>
<p>As an alum, I do not want to believe that Williams has an "Asian quota" like the "Jew quota" that existed into the 1960s. It could be that Asian American students simply don't fit the profile. For example, Williams has the highest percentage of varsity athletes in the student body of any college or university in the country, not an EC that is strongly represented in Asian American applicants. Also, Williams tends to enroll more full-pay students than its top peer schools, so that may be a factor as well since Asian Americans tend to be underrepresented in "old-money" circles. Who knows?</p>
<p>The numbers are somewhat curious. Williams' high point for Asian American enrollment came more than a decade ago (1994) when 11% of the campus was Asian American. By 1998, the percentage had fallen to 9% and has remained level since. This runs somewhat counter to national trends with Asian American enrollment at top colleges increasing steadily.</p>
<p>Amherst, just an hour away, is at 13%. Swarthmore, which has a more urban location, is at 16% (21% of the acceptances this year went to Asian-Americans).</p>
<p>I don't think anyone can answer the question, "will being Asian American hurt admissions chances at Williams?" To answer that, we would have to know the number of apps or acceptance rates and the yield rate. It is a pretty good guess that being Asian American won't be a plus on the application.</p>
<p>I think it is pretty clear that NOT being a student-athlete does hurt one's admissions chances. With 40% of students being varsity athletes (and probably another 10% who thought they would be on entering, but then decided to opt out - and 12% are in club sports or junior varsity), Williams just has to fill the slots. (I'm an alum too.)</p>
<p>If you are an Asian-American student-athlete, being an Asian-American won't work against you (actually, being an Asian-American won't likely work against you at all in any case.) But if almost half the slots are filled up with student-athletes, another 6-7% with legacies who aren't athletes (each incoming class at Williams is 11-14% legacies), 9% are Pell Grant recipients ("economic diversity) most of whom aren't athletes, and another 6% desired URMs who aren't student-athletes, and maybe 2-4% development admits who aren't student-athletes, well, you can add the numbers yourself - there just aren't that many slots left, for Asian-Americans, or anyone else.</p>
<p>There are some numbers on Asian percentages at different LACs at US</a> News. My impression is that Asian students tend to be more prevalent at (1) urban or near-urban LACs, (2) women's colleges, and (3) LACs with engineering programs. For example, there are particularly high Asian percentages at Wellesley, Barnard, Swarthmore, and Harvey Mudd, all of which fit two of these three criteria.</p>
<p>Williams obviously doesn't fit any of these three criteria. Williams (with 10%) seems to be near the middle of the pack among NESCAC schools: it is behind some (Amherst 14%, Bowdoin 13%, Wesleyan 11%) but ahead of others (Middlebury 8%, Trinity 6%, Colby 6%, Hamilton 6%, Conn Coll 6%, Bates 5%). </p>
<p>I would suspect that Williams gets a smaller percentage of Asian applicants than most top schools, but I have no data to back that up.</p>
<p>I believe that being Asian-American IS an advantage in admissions at Williams. I can’t put my hands on current figures just now, but I remember that there was a major discrepancy between the percentage of Asians (and other other non-whites) accepted and the percentage that chose to matriculate and the same percentage for whites. In other words, Williams offered them spaces but for a variety of reasons they chose to go elsewhere. </p>
<p>These figures are from the class of 2008, so they’re not up to date, but they will give you an idea of the percentages.</p>
<p>Total admitted 1049
(including 214 admitted ED)
Matriculated 540
Yield 51% including ED, 39% RD only</p>
<p>Asian-Americans admitted 129
(including 29 admitted ED)
Matriculated 57
Yield 44% including ED, 19% RD only</p>
<p>The reasons are most likely the ones mentioned: the Asian kids and their families prefer urban or suburban schools, big name universities and schools that already have a larger percentage of Asians. </p>
<p>I believe that diversity figures are important to Williams and that they would like to see their Asian percentages increase. Therefore, yes, being Asian-American should help you get admitted. </p>
<p>Of course “fitting the profile” is still important – you’ll need to fulfill the academic requirements plus contribute something to the campus culture, like participation in sports (or at least some physical activity) or the arts, or both. Although I’d support the stereotype that Asians are often not involved in sports, the counter is that they often are involved in music which is also a valuable EC at Williams.</p>
<p>Momrath,</p>
<p>I'm a little surprised that only 12% of the acceptances are going to Asian Americans. We are missing a key piece of info (number of apps) to know whether it is a a lower number of applications or a lower acceptance rate. It's not a yield issue as 44% is a pretty high yield number.</p>
<p>At Swarthmore for the Class of 2008, 20% of the acceptances went to Asian Americans. Interestingly, the acceptance rate there for Asian Americans is about 44% higher than for the overall pool. Impossible to know if that is a preference or if the pool is just very strong. For the Class of 2008: 504 Asian Americans applied. 183 were accepted. 60 enrolled (16% of 366 total).</p>
<p>Logically, I would guess that Amherst's numbers and percentages are somewhere in the middle between Williams and Swarthmore.</p>
<p>My own personal opinion is that Asian Americans are not given a preference at any of the super-selective schools, except for certain groups of first generation Southeast Asian Americans. The differences in percentages result from the number of applicants and how well the applicants fit the desired school "profile".</p>
<p>"'m a little surprised that only 12% of the acceptances are going to Asian Americans. We are missing a key piece of info (number of apps) to know whether it is a a lower number of applications or a lower acceptance rate."</p>
<p>I'm not. I would expect much lower percentages of Asian-American applicants are athletes (yes, I know, some are musicians, but the admission of musicians at Williams pales in comparison with the need to fill up the athletic teams); much lower percentages of legacies; much lower numbers of developmental admits; and much lower of Pell Grant recipients. One could speculate about their financial aid status - but I won't. The point is that the weighting of admissions (if my assumptions above are true - and I know my numbers are) is against Asian-Americans, even if there is no particular discrimination against them (which I truly believe there isn't). There just aren't that many slots for non-student-athlete, non-legacy, non-developmental, non-legacy, non-Pell Grant, non-desired URM applicants at Williams - and I expect the 12% admit rate closely mirrors the rate of admission of white applicants in the same categories.</p>
<p>Would you speculate, then, that an asian with an athletic backround gains an advantage in the admissions process compared to other asians?</p>
<p>Mini:</p>
<p>I agree with you. I do not believe that anyone in the administration would overtly discriminate against Asian Americans.</p>
<p>However, it does echo the long-standing fine line between quotas and student profiles in American education. For example, the indignant denial of "Jew quotas" while acknowledging a preference for students from private schools, who could handle a yacht, and weren't too "bookish". Or, when the traditional New York/Northeast fishing beds started producing too many Jewish students, how the colleges conveniently decided that geographic diversity was suddenly a top priority.</p>
<p>I guess at the end of the day, it really doesn't matter. Figuring out how "students like me" fit into the institutional priorities is a big part of choosing a college. To the extent that "students like me" are a bigger part of the campus culture, the odds of admission (and of being happy in college) probably increase. Whether it's because few "students like me" apply or few "students like me" fit the acceptance profile or there is a quota...the end result is the same.</p>
<p>"Would you speculate, then, that an asian with an athletic backround gains an advantage in the admissions process compared to other asians?"</p>
<p>If he/she plays a sport and plans to play it in college - and is good enough to play for Williams, and the coach is aware of him/her, without any doubt whatsoever. Athletic "interest" or "ECs" doesn't cut it at all.</p>
<p>The "Jew quota" at Williams is a much uglier (and more overt) story that you depict, ID, but thankfully it is long gone.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Would you speculate, then, that an asian with an athletic backround gains an advantage in the admissions process compared to other asians?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The athletic background can cut both ways. I would NOT want to be a Williams applicant whose major extracurricular focus is athletics, but who is not good enough to be a recruited athlete at the school. Remember, nearly 30% of the freshman class each year has had sufficient recruiting contact with the athletic department to be designated by the department as a "likely 4-year varsity athlete"....on very competitive teams. Nearly 3/4ths of each freshman class played varsity athletics in high school.</p>
<p>The school attracts an incredibly strong and large pool of top Div III athletes. If you are not good enough to be a likely 4-year varsity athlete in that pool, then the school doesn't really benefit from your sports focus. The last thing they need is to spend more admissions slots on athletes when they have science geek slots and music slots and community service slots and ethnic slots and low income slots and so on and so forth to fill. They get the athletes just by the school's reputation. It's filling the other slots that the admissions office has to focus on.</p>
<p>We've got a relative applying to Williams next year. All he did in high school was sports, sports, and more sports. So Williams is a perfect fit. The problem is that he's probably not good enough to get the attention of the athletic department. So, he won't get an athletic slot, but he doesn't have any ECs that would make him a candidate for filling some other campus need.</p>
<p>It's all about matching up what you offer and what the college needs.</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about the lower % of asians. While I don't have data to back this up - I would assume that high achieving asian students generally have asian parents who are pushing them really hard. amherst, williams, swarthmore aren't exactly big name schools like harvard, mit, and berkeley are - that being said the parents would like that big name degree. I would just assume you have proportionally less asians applying to aws than you do to other schools like harvard.</p>
<p>The data doesn't support that. Swarthmore is 16% Asian American, essentially the same as Harvard. Amherst is quite high, too. Wellesley is off the charts.</p>
<p>I think it's just a matter of student profiles. Some schools are a better fit for the things Asian American students often bring to the party; others maybe not so much. For example, Asian Americans are very heavily involved in the community service programs at Harvard.</p>
<p>Location probably plays a role, too. There isn't a large Asian American population in the greater metro Williamstown area.</p>
<p>Williams just isn't very well known. Swarthmore, Amherst, and Wellesley (with its all-girl appeal) are. Asians go for that sort of thing. I am Asian by the way and trust me, that's how it is. Not saying there aren't exceptions of course. And Williams is an amazingly good school.</p>
<p>For whatever reason, Asian-Americans seem more likely to attend universities than LACs in general (not just Williams). For example, compare Asian-American numbers at nationally-ranked [url=<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc_campdiv_brief.php%5Duniversities%5B/url">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/natudoc_campdiv_brief.php]universities[/url</a>] versus [url=<a href="http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/libartco_campdiv_brief.php%5DLACs%5B/url">http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/rankings/brief/libartco_campdiv_brief.php]LACs[/url</a>]. </p>
<p>Top-ranked universities typically have 15-25% Asian-Americans; it's unusual to see a number below 15%. In contrast, top-ranked LACs typically have only 5-15% Asian-Americans; it's unusual to see a number above 15%.
[quote]
Wellesley is off the charts.
[/quote]
At 29%, Wellesley is "off the charts" for a LAC; no other top LAC comes close. But it's not remarkable by university standards: compare with Berkeley (43%), UCLA (40%) Caltech (35%), MIT (29%), Carnegie-Mellon (27%) or Stanford (26%).
[quote]
Swarthmore is 16% Asian American, essentially the same as Harvard. Amherst is quite high, too.
[/quote]
US News puts Harvard at 20%, significantly higher than Swarthmore (16%) or Amherst (14%). Swat and Amherst are more comparable to Princeton (14%) and Dartmouth (14%), which appear to rank near the bottom among top universities. </p>
<p>In short, it appears that for top LACs, 15% Asians is "high", but for top universities, 15% Asians is "low". </p>
<p>It seems unlikely that there is a national conspiracy to keep Asians out of LACs. If there is, then it apparently includes schools that are traditionally regarded as liberal and socially progressive, such as Oberlin (8%) and Reed (6%).</p>
<p>Most of the major universities with large Asian representation are on the West Coast or schools that have strong and engineering/computer science programs, with Harvard being an exception. </p>
<p>15% is very high for LACs with only a handful near or above that number. I think Wellesley's proximity to Boston, location in a "safe" area, as well as its academic reputation all contribute to the high Asian representation. Moroever, Madame Chang-Kai Shek attended Wellesley and it thus has been well-known among Chinese, Taiwanese, and Chinese-Americans for over 75 years. Many Chinese recognize it as the school that she attended. Funny how one prominent alumnae can publicize a school. Similarly, I think if Hilary became president, Wellesley will see a surge in applicants. Also, having a large core of Asians makes it easier to encourage more Asian applicants so it can become a self-perpetuating phenomenon. Wellesley is 26% Asian, next seven sister school is Barnard at 17%. Smith, which I think is a similar school in many ways to Wellesley has "only" 12%.</p>
<p>Corbett:</p>
<p>I think your list of "top universities" is skewed. You listed California schools and engineering schools!</p>
<p>I have not seen percentages higher than Harvard's for any full-service East Coast University.</p>
<p>California is a different ballgame, due to the underlying demographics of the region.</p>
<p>
[quote]
California is a different ballgame, due to the underlying demographics of the region.
[/quote]
But even in California, Asian-Americans seem much better represented in universities, as opposed to LACs. Consider, for example, the LA metro area, which has many well-regarded schools of both types:</p>
<p>Universities:</p>
<p>52 % UC Irvine
43 % UC Riverside
41 % UCLA
36 % Caltech
30 % Cal Poly Pomona
22 % USC
9 % Pepperdine</p>
<p>LACs:</p>
<p>20 % Claremont McKenna
18 % Harvey Mudd
16 % Occidental
14 % Pomona
13 % Scripps
8 % Pitzer
6 % Whittier</p>
<p>All data from collegeboard.com, except for Oxy (had to check Oxy website). Again, the highest numbers by LAC standards are low by university standards.</p>
<p>thanks for the many responses, i think the topic is getting sidetracked from my original question, but thats ok.</p>
<p>There are 59 asian students in the first year class, or 11 percent:</p>