Ask Questions about Practicing Law at a Large Firm

[SpaceChicken]

<p>Hey all,</p>

<p>Not sure how active this sub-forum is, but I thought I could start a thread here to answer any questions anyone may have about law school admissions, law school itself, the job search or life as a lawyer. I'm in my first year (started last fall) as an associate in the corporate law department of a big law firm and so I'm pretty close to the whole process. I'll try to respond when I can. Fire away!</p>

<p>MODERATOR'S NOTE: Anyone is allowed to ask or answer questions in this thread. "Ask Me" threads aren't allowed, because it discourages open participation and often the OP disappears.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>Where are you working big law (NYC, Chicago, DC, LA, Tx)?</p>

<p>Where did you go to law school?</p>

<p>What was your class rank?</p>

<p>Did you have law review or Journal?</p>

<p>Did you participate in Moot Court competitions?</p>

<p>Were you hired as an SA after your 2L year?</p>

<p>Please provide some insight about OCI at your school?</p>

<p>How many firms came to your school?</p>

<p>How many pre-selects/ screening interviews did you do?</p>

<p>How many call backs?</p>

<p>How many offers?</p>

<p>What made you choose your firm?</p>

<p>What kind of support did they give you with bar review?</p>

<p>Did you pass and have been admitted to the bar?</p>

[sacchi]

<p>What advice do you have for 1Ls?</p>

[SpaceChicken]

<p>Where are you working big law (NYC, Chicago, DC, LA, Tx)?</p>

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<p>Prefer not to give too many specifics, but a large market on a coast.</p>

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<p>Where did you go to law school?</p>

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<p>Again, trying to avoid too many specifics, but let’s say a top 30 school (not that the rankings are all that meaningful).</p>

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<p>What was your class rank?</p>

<br>

<p>Top 2%.</p>

<br>

<p>Did you have law review or Journal?</p>

<br>

<p>I did flagship law review. It’s boring and useless, but if you have the opportunity, everyone does it for the resume line.</p>

<br>

<p>Did you participate in Moot Court competitions?</p>

<br>

<p>I did. More fun than law review.</p>

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<p>Were you hired as an SA after your 2L year?</p>

<br>

<p>Yes. There are a few folks to get hired to large lawfirms otherwise, but few and far between.</p>

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<p>Please provide some insight about OCI at your school?</p>

<br>

<p>It’s kind of feast-or-famine at schools like where I went. Top of the class had full days of interviews, people close to median had to rely on a few lottery interviews but mainly couldn’t rely on OCI for jobs. Then again, even some law review, good grades folks struck out. It can be pretty random - it just takes one interviewer that didn’t click with you and you’re out with that firm. </p>

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<p>How many firms came to your school?</p>

<br>

<p>50 or so, including some regional ones. We also had some off-campus programs, done with other schools, in other cities, which would add another handful.</p>

<br>

<p>How many pre-selects/ screening interviews did you do?
How many call backs?
How many offers?</p>

<br>

<p>I forget my exact numbers, but I think I had about 30 screeners, 8 callbacks and 3 offers. For a while I was getting nervous about not getting anything, then some nice offers came through.</p>

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<p>What made you choose your firm?</p>

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<p>Partly was being in the city I wanted to be in. I also wanted a good mix of practice areas. I wanted to do corporate (or rather, I didn’t want to litigate) but wasn’t exactly sure which practice group, and I picked my firm because they had a good number of strong areas that were intriguing. I’m glad I made that pick, because the area I thought I wanted, I wound up hating, and it was nice to have some other good choices.</p>

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<p>What kind of support did they give you with bar review?</p>

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<p>They pay for whichever bar prep course you want (most people do BarBri) and give a salary advance for the summer.</p>

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<p>Did you pass and have been admitted to the bar?</p>

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<p>I wound up taking two bars, passing both, admitted now.</p>

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[SpaceChicken]

<p>What advice do you have for 1Ls?</p>

<br>

<p>Read “Getting to Maybe,” which is a fantastic book about how to take law school exams. I would also try to clear you plate from as many distractions as possible, such as living close to school so you don’t waste time commuting.</p>

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<p>But the biggest thing is to relax and enjoy it. People who stress out don’t do as well, people who know how to balance work with a social and family life do better. The little secret is that law school, even 1L, isn’t that bad. Certainly less work and less stress than actually being a lawyer! Don’t get caught up in the hype. Focus on grades, but don’t shut down the rest of your life.</p>

[letsbefrank]

<p>Curious about the partnership track…what chances of associates making partner, percentage who leave before partnership, and where to those associates shown the door typically end up?</p>

[Demosthenes49]

<p>@letsbefrank: That varies tremendously by firm. At WLRK they hire with the expectation associates will make partner. At CSM there’s basically no chance. Almost everyone leaves before being considered for partnership. Where they end up also depends on the firm and market. Many end up working for the firm’s clients in house, some in government, some at other firms.</p>

[sybbie719]

<p>Did you choose the highest ranked school that you got accepted to or did you chose the school that provided you with the most $ leaving you to graduate with the least amount of debt?</p>

<p>Did you choose your school over T14 schools</p>

<p>Would you mind sharing LSAT/GPA?</p>

[SpaceChicken]

<p>Re: Partnership prospects:</p>

<p>Even at the most low-leveraged places like WLRK, Williams & Connoly, MTO, etc., most associates aren’t making partner. At the more generic, mid-Vault ranked “biglaw” firms, it’s going to be even less. The model is just based on a pyramid structure - partners making profits off the hours churned out by people below them. (Williams & Connoly actually has a small PPP than many less prestigious places because of its low leverage, and it works form them, but most firms can’t retain partnership talent with low PPP. That firm is just as much an outlier as WLRK, in its own way).</p>

<p>Of course, some people make partner. It’s not impossible. It’s not even an non-appreciable percent; even a CSM is going to name a handful each year.</p>

<p>But it’s simply not something you can build into your life plan. The odds are far greater that you’ll wind up despising the lifestyle and quit before you’re up for partner, or you’ll be up in a year where you practice area or the economy as a whole is down, or you’re just not partnership material. The path is getting longer and longer (6 years used to be the norm, now it’s probably 8 and some are trending towards 10). Plenty of firms also use non-equity partners to keep high performing associates around with a title that lets them bill at a higher rate but doesn’t give them a piece of the profits - look at how many “partners” Kirkland & Ellis produced this year: <a href=“Kirkland & Ellis Announces New Partners | News | Kirkland & Ellis LLP”>Kirkland & Ellis Announces New Partners | News | Kirkland & Ellis LLP; </p>

<p>Even if you make equity partner, that’s not the end of the treadmill. If you’re at an “eat-what-you-kill” firm (where compensation is linked to the number of billables that you originate), your compensation is still subject to crater in a year when you’re industry is down or your big client implodes or you just have a bad year. There’s even a trend towards “de-equitizing” partners (Cadwalader had a whole lawsuit about it) when they’re not producing. The more lock-step (and thus the less eat what you kill) the partnership compensation model is, the harder it is to make the cut. CSM is a good example because partnership compensation is based solely on seniority, not productivity in bringing in business. If they screw up and name a bad partner, they can’t starve him out (pay him an embarrassingly small amount until he quite) the way an eat-what-you-kill place can.</p>

<p>One thing I’ll say though, is that from a distance it does seem like partnership is the goal and everyone gets weeded out. What really happens in many cases is that people get here and even before the first year is up, they know they don’t want to do the big firm thing the rest of their lives, even with the promise of the big partnership bucks down the line. When I talk to friends, both at my firm and friends from law school at other firms, a few will admit to thinking about making partner down the line, but most will say they plan to stick it out as long as possible, pay off debt/accumulate savings, and move on to something different after a few years.</p>

[SpaceChicken]

<p>I picked neither the highest nor lowest ranked school, and money is - and always should be - a factor. I was riding a T14 wait list into the summer up through when my school’s orientation started, but I don’t know if I would have gone, full sticker price is a huge amount of money and it can really hold you back financially for years, even with biglaw to help pay it down.</p>

[cbreeze]

<p>So, you went to a non T14 school. Do you recommend that for others?</p>

[SpaceChicken]

<p>That’s a broad question, and I’m sure you know that the answer will depend on too many specifics to give a blanket answer. It depend on career goals and cost of attendance/debt load, and of course which school you’re thinking of. </p>

<p>From my part, I know plenty of people from my school with very nice outcomes from my school, even if they didn’t get, or didn’t want, biglaw - Manhattan DA’s office, Miami PD office, respected litigation boutique in a small state, congressional staffer, JAG - but other people are bouncing around from temporary gigs with small firms, and one or two even hung a shingle after not being able to find anything but having bills to pay.</p>