Assessing Academic Rigor?

College Search & Selection
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<p>Most good students (and I know this is an ambiguous term) prefer to be in an environment where they are appropriately challenged and are surrounded by other students who also take academics seriously. </p>

<p>Some of these good students also thrive on the challenge, competition and stress that can accompany a rigorous college program.</p>

<p>Others (my daughter included) become incredibly stressed out when the academic pressure goes up. While they want and need good teaching and a certain level of challenge, they prefer a collegial atmosphere where students support one another and there is a little breathing space between challenges.</p>

<p>My question: how is it possible to get a good sense of the relative rigor and intensity of a college, short of attending? Is there a direct correlation between colleges with high admission stats and the rigor/intensity/stress of the program?</p>

<p>My daughter isn't Ivy League material. Her grades and test scores will definitely make schools like, say, Bowdoin, Whitman and Colorado College BIG reaches should she choose to apply to them. These (and many others) all sound like great, supportive schools with strong programs in the sciences, but if she were to apply and somehow be accepted, she would definitely be at the bottom of the academic pool, stats-wise. Does this also necessarily mean that she would then spend four (+) years struggling to keep her head above water at places like that?</p>

<p>On the same note, were she to apply and be accepted to some of her academic matches - also fine schools known for science, like Juniata, College of Wooster, and their ilk - would it be appropriate to assume that the level of rigor would be proportionately lower?</p>

<p>My daughter is a good student, takes mostly AP courses, excels at interactive discussion and writing, struggles with M/C tests, and her teachers generally love her for her interest and engagement. Her grades are pretty good but she works VERY hard for them. I really would like to see her in an environment where she is surrounded by people who love science and enjoy learning and where she can be successful, enjoy her college years, and be competitive for grad school (or employment) when she gets out. Pretty much what most parents want, I guess!</p>

<p>But to determine this fit, how can we get a sense of what the academic climate at a particular school is REALLY like?</p>

<p>(Sorry for the lengthy post...)</p>

2

<p>The National Survey of Student Engagement has collected information about academic rigor from participating colleges and universities. Their surveys get into details such as reading loads or the number of 5-/10-/20-page papers assigned per term.
[NSSE</a> Home](<a href=“http://nsse.iub.edu/]NSSE”>http://nsse.iub.edu/)
At one point, USA Today was posting NSSE findings about many colleges, but the last time I checked, that site was no longer accessible. So you might have to hunt around.</p>

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<p>Another more indirect source is the princeton review site. [College</a> Rankings](<a href=“http://www.princetonreview.com/college-rankings.aspx]College”>Best Colleges 2023 | College Ranking List | The Princeton Review)</p>

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<p>A more selective college can have more rigorous courses, but it is not necessarily true that it will have more rigorous courses, or have them in all subjects.</p>

<p>It is not likely that using overall school rankings will be of much additional value here. A student would likely need to have someone who is familiar with the course work in the student’s prospective major(s) to help go through the course catalog and course home pages for each college to estimate how well the courses match up to the student’s goals.</p>

<p>In some schools, there may be honors versions of some courses which are more rigorous than the regular versions. In a very few schools, the regular versions of the courses may be like honors versions at some other schools.</p>

<p>Some of this evaluation can be rather esoteric from the point of view of a high school senior. For example, a prospective economics major considering a goal of PhD study in economics should look for intermediate micro/macro economics and econometrics courses with more math prerequisites and strong math and statistics offerings.</p>

<p>Some majors do have major-specific accreditation that can establish a baseline of rigor, although such baselines of rigor may vary from major to major. For example, many would consider the baseline rigor for ABET-accredited engineering to be more rigorous than AACSB-accredited business, although there can be some business major degree programs that are much more rigorous than the baseline.</p>

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<p>We tried to make our college visits deep enough to tease this info out. Looked through the on-line course catalogs and found likely courses that D would take first year, then contacted profs to get permission to visit. Not just one course, but 4 or more. Right away you get a feeling from profs who send copies of syllabi with course policies and include info about what they will be covering on day of visit along with PDFs of readings. The classes themselves give a good idea of the students/climate. </p>

<p>Browsing the catalog gives a better feeling for class size than the numbers they like to throw out at the campus info sessions about % of classes with less than X students. Oftentimes the course listing has links to required materials and syllabus. You can check out the books, either by reading reviews and doing ‘look-insides’ at Amazon, or by looking for the book in a bookstore if you live near a university.</p>

<p>Ask about support services like tutoring and find out how that is provided. Some schools have tutor centers or informal tutor groups that meet right in student dorms. Visit the centers and meet the tutors and watch how they interact with students. How crowded is it?</p>

<p>Spend some time sitting in library.</p>

<p>Listen to conversations around you when you go out to lunch in campus cafeterias. You pick up a lot about the general vibe.</p>

<p>Overnight visits are useful. The host would often bring students in my Ds intended major to chat so she got a feeling of the ebb and flow of life in her major. Just observing everyday dorm life is revealing. </p>

<p>Arrange meetings with advisors in likely dept of major. Ask them what life is like at the school. Have them lay out the major, talk about the sequence of classes. They may also arrange personal meetings for your D with students in your D’s intended major. If you are lucky they will offer to do this w/o being asked.</p>

<p>Make the visits count. It’s a long drive or flight, so be sure to do more than just go around on the general info session/tour. After the first couple of visits, we divided labor. I gathered info doing sessions while D sat in classes and attended overnights, then I reported anything interesting to her. Definitely she got the better end of things there.</p>

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<p>Very helpful advice… I thought college visits would likely be the best place to start and your specific suggestions are great. </p>

<p>I know this isn’t something that will be easy to discern but it may be one of the most important elements of college ‘fit’ for a young person who wants solid academics yet a lower stress environment.</p>

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<p>Also, if anyone would like to suggest a school (based on attendance, college visit or your own research) that would fall into this category of ‘great academics’ yet ‘healthy stress level’ - or conversely, schools to avoid for this type of student - that would also be interesting and much appreciated!</p>

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<p>Remember also that “great academics” could depend on the major the student selects. In addition, the faculty interests as they influence what subareas courses are offered in and what research opportunities are available may influence whether a school is a good academic fit for a given student in that major.</p>

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<p>Juniata and College of Wooster both great schools…I would think cell biology, anatomy or neurobiology would not be a walk in the park at either school, even for those super smart kids. </p>

<p>also Hendrix College, is a school you must visit!</p>

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<p>Hello Op:
Very nice post, it is very heart felt, I feel the same way to admit my daughter in a college with good academics, but yet good guidance, and support around her by the professors, and student body. Can you please share your findings from your visits, that would be helpful.</p>

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<p>If you want specific suggestions, it would help if you posted your D’s stats. </p>

<p>Barring that, I would look at the list baccalaureate origins of doctoral recipients in science and engineering. You can google it, but the source for the list, the National Science Foundation is shut down until the government reopens. </p>

<p>I have a list from a number of years ago (it can’t change that much). Some less competitive (from an admissions standpoint) schools on it are:</p>

<p>Reed - Your only told your grades if you ask for them, very rigorous though
Bryn Mawr
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Oberlin
Kalamazoo
Case Western
Washington College (which I’ve never heard of)
Beloit College
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
Earlham College
Franklin and Marshall
Lawrence University
University of Rochester
Occidental College
Hendrix College
Trinity University
Brandeis University
Hampshire College</p>

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<p>Even without a classroom visit (some schools find that disruptive and don’t allow it), visiting the school will give you a good feeling for the students that attend and whether they are interested and enthusiastic about classes and whether they are overly competitive. This may not be a popular viewpoint, but I would also suggest staying away from most northeast schools as the nature of the area lends itself to more competition and learning for the grade versus learning for knowledge.</p>

<p>Many of the colleges named here are part of the CTCL grouping and that is a good place to start. I would highly recommend Knox College in Illinois as it fits everything that you are looking for, it’s done amazing things for my daughter! She was admitted to all five schools she applied to and all but Bard would fit your needs - Knox, Beloit, Hampshire, and Pitzer. Small LAC with creative and enthusiastic students. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Many things could contribute to rigor/intensity/stress, such as:
grade deflation (limited data about this is available on gradeinflation.com)
course prerequisites and distribution/core requirements (check college sites)
thesis requirements (check college sites)
reading and writing assignment loads (hard to assess without lots of digging)
the preparation and competitiveness of fellow students (look at admit rates, score & GPA averages)
the academic calendar (semester v. quarter v. “block”)
your own choice of major
etc.</p>

<p>Admission selectivity, graduation rates, PhD production (or other outcomes), etc., are likely to be crude indicators at best. I don’t believe any clear correlation has been established between admission selectivity and rigor/intensity/stress. Even if there is a correlation, it may be outweighed by differences between majors and professors within each school. In some cases, the correlation might even be negative (some of the very most selective schools have a reputation for grade inflation).</p>

<p>The NSSE assessments were supposed to score schools on factors that might be associated with “rigor” such as reading and writing assignment loads. However, only a limited number of schools have been assessed and searchable results apparently are not being made public.</p>

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<p>The competitiveness level is something my son was interested in when he was looking at colleges. He wanted a high-quality engineering school with a collaborative, congenial atmosphere rather than a cut-throat one. So he asked questions of everyone he had a chance to talk to on college visits about this topic. The admissions department might be vague but the students generally will not be. On the other hand, there are some schools where this type of atmosphere is something the school is actively trying to foster and promote.
No doubt, it is harder to assess than many other factors and I do not believe you can make assumptions based on selectivity or geography. For example, do not rule out the Northeast as someone suggested. Considering how many colleges there are here, we have the full spectrum of options for most any factor you are considering.</p>

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<p>Note that the same major can vary considerably between different schools. A given major may be a “gut” major at some schools, but a highly rigorous major at other schools.</p>

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<p>I see two types of rigor here: Academic rigor, and competitive rigor.</p>

<p>This is how I view it…</p>

<p>Academic rigor can be estimated by looking at the curriculum, including the breadth and depth of curriculum offered. This type of rigor tests how well the student is able to pick up challenging new concepts and solve problems.</p>

<p>Competitive rigor, on the other hand, is the rigor associated with “keeping up with the Joneses”, or in this case, your classmates. I would imagine this type of rigor correlates well with admissions stats, but I can’t say for sure. This type of rigor tests how well the student is able to handle the pressure associated with continuously maintaining a certain social status or level of achievement.</p>

<p>The question then becomes: which type of rigor is important to you? I would consider competitive rigor to be inclusive. Some high performing students absolutely thrive in environments with less competitive rigor, but high academic rigor… others need that high level of competitive rigor to keep them motivated and alert. There is no ‘right’ level of competitive rigor in my opinion though - it depends entirely on the student’s preferences.</p>

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<p>I know this is little low brow, but you might check out some of the web sites where students review schools. One in particular includes whether a school’s workload is higher or lower than they had anticipated.</p>

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<p>Just a thought, but you might want to see how popular a college is with “premed” students. They have no choice but to be highly competitive and grade conscious.</p>

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<p>However, the pre-med grade competition tends to be concentrated in typical courses that medical schools require for admission, and in certain majors (e.g. about half of medical school applicants had biology undergraduate majors). Pre-law grade competition tends to be more dispersed across various subjects (the largest undergraduate major in LSAT taker listings, political science, makes up only about a fifth of LSAT takers).</p>

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<p>Your description of your daughter sounds just like my daughter!</p>

<p>I’ll make a specific recommendation - Rochester Institute of Technology. My D is a freshman there, and absolutely loves it. She finds her professors and classmates alike very supportive and helpful. So far college has been a wonderful thing for her, and she can’t get over how much better it is than the cut-throat atmosphere of her very competitive high school. Definitely a tech school, not LAC (though a liberal arts immersion is required), but give it a look. PM if you want more information.</p>