<p>(deleted due to weird sudden double posting)</p>
<p>The guidance counselor just emailed me and said there is not enough time to apply EA to Georgia Tech by this Weds 10/15. 
So I guess that’s one off the list. </p>
<p>You have reason to worry, OP. My D was so sure that she would get into one of her reaches that she did very little research on her safeties. Turns out two of the three safeties refused her, upset she hadn’t shown them enough love (even tho one claims that interest is unimportant). And the third safety she told me later she had no interest in. Grrr. </p>
<p>Second time around, I was in charge of the search and Pitt quickly rose to the top of the pile. It is increasingly popular because of its generosity combined with low COA of 43K. My D’s there now, and Pitt offers some full ride, many full tuition, and many other awards of 2-20K. </p>
<p>@jkeil911 Oh no, that’s terrible! So sorry to hear it. 
This is why I want to leave U of Miami on the list…I almost feel like going for one of their big scholarships (even if we have to attend the special weekend, ugh…) is our best bet at this point. His stats are high(ish) for that school and a merit scholarship would make the school affordable. And given the choice between Barrett ASU and U of Miami I’m not certain he would choose ASU. (And at least he would have a choice to make.) But we need a few more in that category.</p>
<p>What do you all think about any of these:</p>
<p>Reach/Match: USC, Swarthmore, Rice, U of Rochester, Claremont McKenna, Occidental</p>
<p>Matches: Davidson, U of Richmond, U of Miami, U Pitt, U of Denver</p>
<p>Any favorites here for merit aid? I’d almost be looking for the schools with the lowest stats so that Chris would look good and have a better shot at scholarships. </p>
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<p>You nailed it. According to him, he “just wants to get into a good school,” which apparently he considers to be only 6 or 7 of the most selective schools…sigh. And he believes that those schools are automatically affordable because they supposedly meet 100% of demonstrated need. What he’s not getting is that I have no idea what our EFC will be calculated at, and our demonstrated need could be basically zero, making these schools unaffordable.</p>
<p>The silver lining here is that he doesn’t seem to care how many other schools I add to the list, or even what schools they are (because he’s so focused on his top choices, specifically Stanford and Duke). So I can put as many U of Denver’s etc. on the list as I want, and he will have those options to consider if his not-so-well-laid plans don’t work out.</p>
<p>So out of that list I just need to figure out where he’s most likely to get merit aid… 
Then he might or might not get one of more offers (that we might not be able to afford) from one of the super reach schools; he might get interesting offers (that we might not be able to afford, but maybe one or two that we can) from less selective private schools, and he will hopefully get good offers from safety schools (ASU Barrett and Bama?). Does that sound like a good plan?</p>
<p>My feeling is the private schools expect me to pay about double what I think we can manage. So when I figured $15-20 thousand was doable they wanted $37K. Now that I think we might swing $25K they want $50K. It’s all their expectation that people will take loans which is not my expectation. Anyhow for us it seems pretty linear.</p>
<p>UTulsa is one you should look at. They specialize in engineering and also CS. Especially information security and game theory. They have a large proportion of internationals coming to study petroleum and other engineering specialties. So the deal is they have low COA for a private, about $50K. They are trying to climb the rankings and giving out merit for good stats. With your son’s stats he can expect an initial merit award of $20-30K with admission. Then they give out about 50 full rides later. 3/4 to NMF and 1/4 to other high stat kids. You have to show interest, visit, present well to get that. Read the threads on CC about their merit. Have your S read about their CS programs. They are very well regarded in engineering/CS. I’m not sure about other majors. They offer the full spectrum of majors, but all the money and best professors are in these disciplines. They are D1 for sports, have a lot of big donors(oil money) and have been putting up new buildings and completely remodelling old ones. They had a free app available, but I think the deadline for that may have passed. You could inquire abut it.</p>
<p>I don’t understand why you can’t apply to GT. Has your S not started any apps yet and so GC hasn’t done anything on his end? I know GT will continue to accept documents after the 10/15 deadline so long as the actual app is submitted, though they frown on it, of course. Has S asked for LOR? I don’t remember how much of common app has to be done to be able to press submit. Does the GC part have to be finished? LOR uploaded? </p>
<p>Here. UTulsa has NSF money to give big full ride scholarships to kids in cybersecurity, but only for junior/senior years
unfortunately. But anyway there is money there at that school if you dig around.
<a href=“http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/Centers-and-Institutes/cyber-corps-program.aspx”>http://www.utulsa.edu/academics/Centers-and-Institutes/cyber-corps-program.aspx</a></p>
<p>OP, your child sounds a lot like mine. I don’t know a lot about what gets major aid at USC, Rice, or Occidental. USC just gets soooo many damn applications these days, and while they are generous I haven’t been able to figure out why some 4.0/2300s get it and others get a quarter tuition. USC has 10 Monk Family awards of full tuition plus; 5 Stamps; 100 Trustee full tuition; 200 Presidential half-tuition awards; and a bunch of smaller ones of no use to us. Swat gives aid to the people they want, and they usually want them for something like a patent they developed or a significant charity they created. Rochester has a reputation on CC for generosity; it was completely unfounded in our case, but perhaps you will do better. Rochester offered a number of Rochester Scholarships offering from 2K to full tuition; there was also the Renaissance and Global Scholarship for full tuition but I don’t know how many; all the other merit awards were 2-20K, which did us no good. Claremont McKenna is a lot like Swat, from what I hear. It may be that all the schools in this paragraph are too hinky to make predictions about aid.</p>
<p>The same hinkiness has been said about Pitt, but that was not our experience. They pretty much came in where we expected, based on stats from the last couple years that you can find with a little online searching of CC. Disappointment was not the experience of many of the people I knew who were searching this year with their children for Pitt aid. There were 8-12 full rides by invitation only of about 70 students. The losers of this competition rec’d full tuition in most cases. Then there were a bunch more full tuitions; how many I don’t know. Pitt places a lot of emphasis on SATs and rank: two years ago the average for the winners of full tuition was about 1513 CR+M and 1478 for 10K in merit. I don’t know about Miami, Davidson, or Denver. When I was studying at UDenver thirty years ago, they didn’t have a reputation for generosity, but they didn’t have a national rep then. Miami’s rep is for generosity, but I don’t know how much generosity that means. We looked at Richmond. They had 45 competitive full tuition to full tuition plus r&b scholarships; after that they had some 15K Presidential scholarships and 25 Bonner scholarships of 5K. The competition attracts a lot of attention to Richmond, but you can rest assured that the best students in the land are getting the full tuition/ride, just as they are at Pitt. Interviews are terribly important at both schools for the full tuition scholarships. Pitt has the advantage for people of my income because their COA is so much lower than most of these schools you’ve listed; with Pitt, the non-tuition scholarships count for something when the COA is 43K.</p>
<p>For what it’s worth, I hope you make a ton of money this year, OP. He’s going to do well wherever he goes. You have to have something for retirement. He needs to learn the difference.</p>
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<p>Be sure to check for academic suitability. For example, Davidson’s CS course offerings are fairly limited, not a good sign for a prospective CS major. See <a href=“Mathematics and Computer Science”>http://www.davidson.edu/academics/mathematics-and-computer-science/computer-science-courses</a> . Occidental’s CS course offerings are even more limited, and CS is only offered as a minor there. See <a href=“http://www.oxy.edu/academics/course-catalog/computer-science#courses”>http://www.oxy.edu/academics/course-catalog/computer-science#courses</a> .</p>
<p>Quality CS major degree programs exist at many schools, but the school’s overall prestige and selectivity level is not an accurate guide in determining the quality of the CS major degree program. Check catalogs and schedules to see how extensive the junior/senior level CS course offerings are.</p>
<p>UPitt Honors would be a match, UPitt itself would be a safety. UDenver would be a safety in any case (it’s quite a few rungs lower than UMiami even if it’s profile has been rising).Davidson is one of the best LACs in the country so even if Chris has great stats, I’m not sure whether it shouldn’t be considered low reach to high match due to their selectivity alone. The need for merit aid really complicates things.
However, it’s excellent he lets you add as many universities as you wish. the downside is htat he’s not involved in his own college search… and since the odds of his attending Stanford or Duke are overwhelmingly low it will make for a difficult Spring. But you’re right to find him choices.</p>
<p>S may be amiably allowing the addition of any schools mom suggests because he hasn’t yet written any admission or scholarship essays . As those start piling up he may become more truculent. Or does he love to write? In our family, essays are a limiting factor. It isn’t just the time required, but the inclination is lacking so it becomes a huge chore. If that is the case have to pick and choose carefully even if you don’t mind spending $$ on apps. If you are looking for non-automatic merit, the essays take on huge importance. They can’t seem canned, or twisted from one app to fit in another. So have to husband that essay writing energy and use it wisely. To have a shot at getting admitted into at least one super reachy school, unless your S is really extraordinary in some way- personality/EC/etc. he does have to apply to many. But maybe not THAT many. He should trim that part of list, think about which of those schools he is most attracted to.</p>
<p>BTW, the Bama app and scholarship app are both extremely easy, no essay needed, just take a few minutes. Their honors apps (regular/UFE/CBHP) are a bit more involved.</p>
<p>I see he is applying to some cold weather schools. The UMN-TC app is very easy, 10 minutes. No essays. Scholarship and honors college consideration comes with the basic app. Since you are OOS, you can get the free golden gopher app if you ask. With his stats he will certainly get a scholarship that waives OOS tuition and probably other scholarships as well and don’t need to interview or anything. There isn’t anything automatic if he isn’t NMF, but it is very likely he’ll get a good package. I’m a big UMN promoter. They have terrific programs there, are underrated on USNews for some reason. Minneapolis is a wonderful city. I don’t know much about their CS though. If he doesn’t object, that is just such an easy one to add. Minimal effort.</p>
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<p>There’s a lot of wisdom in “at least he would have a choice to make”. Right now he can’t imagine a situation where he is admitted to only one school (or only one that is financially accessible), but it could certainly happen. For many kids, the difference between 4 happy years and 4 years of resentment can boil down to “Did I at least get to make a choice to come here?”</p>
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<p>Given his apparent blindness to any school below the top 10, I can see the merit in this strategy. However, I’d be concerned that when it comes to actually having to pick one of the mom-inserted options, he’d feel that none of them are a good fit. Once again, “Did I at least get to make a choice to come here?”</p>
<p>And that may be the best you can do right now, but it’s why I suggested using some talking points to get him to open his eyes a bit wider. Another useful list, in addition to those I posted earlier, is that of the top producers of Fulbright Scholars. <a href=“US Fulbright Program - Top Producing Institutions”>http://us.fulbrightonline.org/top-producing-institutions</a></p>
<p>Arizona State and UT outperform the vast majority of the Ivies. And even though Harvard produced the most last year, ASU and UT had a significantly higher yield against the number of applications submitted. Much like the Ivy prestige he wants so badly, a Fulbright scholarship is something that stays with you for life, an indelible chapter in your biography and a mighty impressive line item on your resume. </p>
<p>I like your plan if he can’t be convinced there are other ways to identify “a good school”, but I sincerely hope that he can be. </p>
<p>Oh I just went and read his profile. So he’s writer. He probably enjoys writing those essays. Lucky you. I want one of those here in my house.</p>
<p>Is class size an issue for him? If he stays with CS, it is a major that tends to run large class size esp. at larger schools. He should look at the course catalogs of the universities. ASU runs many fairly large classes in CS up into upper div classes. Even senior classes may be 80-100, mixed with a few smaller classes. UMiami CS class size drops to 40 after the 1st freshman class. I would guess that some of the top schools and small schools have class size 20 or less, not sure.</p>
<p>Wow, thanks everyone! I am making notes about all the schools you mentioned and will be researching and probably adding most of them to his Common App. I feel like I’m just going to have to spend more than I’d like to on sending out a bunch of applications, because getting a few offers that we can actually afford is really important. We won’t have time to visit all these schools right away, but we certainly could visit a few before the final decision in the spring, in order to help him make his choice.</p>
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<p>What is UT by the way? Is that U of Texas Austin? Or Utah? And yes, we toured the “Fulbright Wall” at Barrett ASU. I personally really like Barrett ASU for him (and there is a good chance he will end up there), so I feel really lucky that we have such a good “safety” school close and convenient to us, and probably affordable too.</p>
<p>The guidance counselor emailed me back and said that we do have time (just barely) to still apply at Georgia Tech by tomorrow 10/15, so we are working on that now. I think he was just irritated that I was notifying him only a few days before the deadline. A tech school of course would be a good match for Chris with his interest in Computer Science. But as with the others, everything depends on the finances.</p>
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<p>No, I don’t have too much trouble getting him to write the essays! And my mom is an English major and works as an editor, so she helps him with them too which is nice. :)</p>
<p>OP, looking at your son’s profile, it’s pretty clear that he is not going to get shut out of the top schools. I don’t know about Stanford, but he is almost sure to have several acceptances to really great schools. That means you need to think hard about how you feel about these schools and really evaluate your finances. Is it possible that you will cave and let him attend Duke if accepted, no matter the cost? Or really not possible above $X out-of-pocket? You’ll have to consider the various scenarios, how you feel about debt, etc. So that you have a plan and are ready and hopefully have discussed this enough with him well in advance that it isn’t a total maelstrom of confusion and misery in April. Hopefully he gets good aid, merit or other to a place he learns is a good fit for him. That is the best outcome.</p>
<p>Given the recent news developments, I think it’s a good year to apply to Rice. I wonder if there is any chance they’ll get proactive and increase merit to their top applicants to try to keep them. I’m guessing that some people will panic about the Ebola and apps may be down. </p>
<p>Swarthmore’s on the same tier as Mudd.</p>
<p>In any case, Mudd gives out a decent number of $10K merit scholarships. Doubt it will be enough, though. UChicago also gives merit money (more to persuade kids they have already offered to come instead of to another school).</p>
<p>Is he NMS? If so, consider UT-Dallas as another safety.</p>
<p>BTW, for career outcomes, I think that the LinkedIn rankings for different professions is more useful: <a href=“https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/rankings/us”>https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/edu/rankings/us</a></p>
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Yeah, great point. I might cave in that scenario, and take on a bunch of debt myself. But I would be much more likely to do that for a school I felt was really a great fit (I actually really like Stanford for him, I’m just not unrealistically hopeful about his chances), than for a school he is just choosing for it’s name that I’m not convinced is a great match for him (like Yale). Duke would be a tough one for me if it came to that, because I do think it is a pretty good match, so I’d be on the fence there. </p>
<p>Also, I really have no idea how my income is going to be perceived, categorized, quantified, etc. by the financial aid people. It’s possible we could get a small amount of need-based aid, so if our family contribution was only say 25k somewhere, I might be able to make it work, though I’d really be much more comfortable in the 15k-20k range. We could also consider letting him take on the $5500 per year in student loans, though I’ve really wanted to avoid that. I also have a 13 year old who will need college funds in about 5 years, so I have to keep that in mind as well and not get too deep underwater myself.</p>
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Awesome! I really like Rice for him. I’m happy that he’s changed back to Computer Science as his major and I know Rice is good for tech stuff. We also applied to Georgia Tech (just under the wire for their EA deadline today) and that’s another good match I think.</p>
<p>Overall, I think Chris will be happy at a medium to large university with a lot of typical college stuff (sports, school spirit, lots of activities going on, etc), but at a place that has a lot of smart kids and an intellectually stimulating and challenging environment. If it’s too easy, he will skate along getting A’s and playing video games in his dorm. But he is a person who rises to a challenge, so if the course work is hard and the other kids are studying, he will do the same. It’s important to him to be a top student. Also, he likes to dress preppy…I know that’s kind of shallow, but he wouldn’t feel good in a super casual hippy type of environment. So I may be able to eliminate some of the smaller LAC’s off the list, since they might not be such a good fit, and many are not strong in Computer Science anyways.</p>
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He just missed NMS by a couple of points. I was kind of surprised because he is a good test taker and his scores are usually pretty high. But I think he just had an off day. If I’d known it was so important I would have stressed it to him and he might have scored a little higher, which would have been just enough to squeak through. I wasn’t really aware of NMS until after the scores were out. Oh well.</p>
<p>If he wants to go to an expensive college which will cause financial strains on the family, absolutely make him take the federal loans. $5,500 freshman year and the total for 4 years is 27,000. Paying back is doable as long as you stay within the federal guidelines. Then have him work 6-10 hours a week. No more than this - but part of the costs should be his responsibility, too.</p>
<p>Olin and Cooper Union are half-tuition, though even that may be too costly for you.</p>