Those colleges are not easy for anyone to gain admissions. Need colleges that offer money that would be easy accept
I don’t know any of those. If you do, as per my post #157, that would be most helpful to hkim
Most people do not know the unknown colleges that offer full ride scholarships because they are unknown. It takes a lot of tedious and grueling work to sift through all of them and then call the Admissions and FA office to confirm that they still are. In this case, the additional issues of possibly being classified as an international student and having DACA Status also have to be addressed.
I haven’t been dealing with college Admissions for about 4 years now, and even longer since Ive looked for schools that also offer merit money that includes room and board. I’ve seen already that a lot of these options have disappeared. There has been a reduction in the college aged population and more students in that demographic are applying to the schools with name recognition. Many of the most selective colleges are becoming even more selective whereas the less known schools, particularly private ones are hurting from fewer students applying. So the full ride discounts are disappearing. I think there is a squeeze on international students that need aid because they cannot bring the federal PELL and loans, and in most cases, state money to the schools. Full need international students are expensive.
NY, my state, just passed a still controversial bill allowing anyone who graduated from a NY highschool access to in state college tuition and to TAP and other state awards.
So what did non citizens here do before this bill? They went to local colleges, maybe community colleges, or the local SUNY part time, worked full time and painstakingly, slowly got their degrees that way. Some went to local private schools that might give scholarships for full tuition. One of my kids’ least expensive option was to commute to a nearby Catholic college that I’ve never seen mentioned on these boards. Closer to our house than than the CC or SUNY, so the commuting cost would have been less.
Unless someone lives in an academic desert( and I worked in such a place this year), there are usually some choices in both private and public schools that are not selective and give out some merit to local kids. High stats enhances such bonuses. Being in or near a big city generally usually means a number of such schools.
One theme I’m seeing often is a litany of highly selective schools rejecting a qualified candidate. It hurts, yes, and I am surprised at the calibre of kids being denied admissions. So that someone who is not citizen or Permanent resident, who needs money to attend, is no surprise.
I suggest that anyone in this position, including anyone hoping to have a Green Card next time around in applying, have less selective schools on their list. Schools that may give tuition awards and are local, full awards if not. The search for these schools is sadly not as rewarding to most people and looking at those names that don’t have the luster of Emory or Swarthmore or UChicago or State Flagship just doesn’t evoke the excitement. But getting into even those schools as an International, DACA, needing a full ride or full tuition hurts.
If a gap year is happening, research in this area should be one of the activities, as well as working as many hours as possible to make money that should be paid to Dad for safekeeping to be used to defray costs of college next year because the student has no asset protection allowance. If there is no acceptance from anywhere other than the CC and local state school, IMO, part time school is the way to go and, yes, there is forfeiture of first year benefits that extend for years. But then if Green Card Status is obtained, PELL and Direct Loan funds become available. That’s all kids in a lot of states have in terms of financial aid, and many do not have ready transportation to their schools.
@cptofthehouse I understand where you’re coming from, I’m not exactly sure if your post was to inform future and other applicants, but I think some of what you said is given and understating a lot of what actually goes on.
“It takes a lot of tedious and grueling work to sift through all of them and then call the Admissions and FA office to confirm that they still are. In this case, the additional issues of possibly being classified as an international student and having DACA Status also have to be addressed.”
The issue is that college who don’t explicitly state that they consider DACA/Undocumented as domestics are internationals (and that’s incredibly clear at least from my experience). A common misconception I think a lot of DACA students have is that “Need-Blind” correlates to domestic, which isn’t the case at all and can be extremely misleading. In fact, the more obscure thing is whether or not need-blind applies to domestics AND internationals.
“There has been a reduction in the college aged population and more students in that demographic are applying to the schools with name recognition. Many of the most selective colleges are becoming even more selective whereas the less known schools, particularly private ones are hurting from fewer students applying. So the full ride discounts are disappearing. I think there is a squeeze on international students that need aid because they cannot bring the federal PELL and loans, and in most cases, state money to the schools. Full need international students are expensive.”
There are more students applying to schools with name recognition, but there are also A LOT of students apply to schools “without” name recognition. In fact, the number of ENROLLED students has nearly tripled since the 1990s, but that’s a long time ago (almost 30 years believe it or not). However, there are some underlying problems with this that may not be as obvious.
Tuition prices have sky-rocketed. Degrees are worth more; simply supply and demand. Maybe inflation? I find it hard to believe that. Tuition goes through the roof, more people applying, and more people with just not enough money. That spirals, and people are flocking to schools that can give a lot of money - and those “schools that can give a lot of money” just happen to be either: State Schools, or Highly Selective Private schools. (Disclaimer, I’m talking about before scholarships, and simply college tuition and financial aid).
Now here’s the problem. DACA/Undocumented students can’t apply for federal aid so that completely knocks out state schools unless you’re so fortunate enough as to have money and pay 10-15K+ a year. This leaves highly selective schools being left, and because we’re internationals needing money, trying to win a spot of 1300 from a pool of over 30,000 applicants, that’s intense. Yes, this “chokes” the smaller private schools, but your cause-and-effect I think was not exactly accurate. Tuition cost is a big problem, and when highly selective schools say “Make $60,000 and under? Free tuition, room, and board” or waive their NPC around with EFC of 0, it’s not only attractive to apply to, but it is the logical and most obvious place to apply to. We aren’t just spinning our heads around trying to get into an HYPSM school; we’re trying to get money.
But what about schools like Berea that have free tuition? I got rejected there (confused as to how?) How about smaller LAC that offers great financial aid? Rejected there too. Case Western? Rejected. The pattern is smaller schools having little to no money to give to people like me, and you addressed this, but I just want to make it clear that you have it the other way around. Yes, these are still great colleges, but they aren’t the most prestigious and were ones my GC was confident I would’ve gotten into - if I was a permanent resident.
This brings me to another thing you said:
“NY, my state, just passed a still controversial bill allowing anyone who graduated from a NY highschool access to in state college tuition and to TAP and other state awards.”
I’m not exactly sure how recent “just passed” is, or why it’s so controversial, but state tuition offered to DACA/Undocumented students have been around for a few years, and the problem is that’s just not enough. Most students going to in-state Public schools get Instate Tuition + Pell grants + FAFSA + whatever scholarships (few or many) which can cut the price in half or even more.
“One theme I’m seeing often is a litany of highly selective schools rejecting a qualified candidate. It hurts, yes, and I am surprised at the calibre of kids being denied admissions. So that someone who is not citizen or Permanent resident, who needs money to attend, is no surprise.”
At this point, that’s pretty standard. Even students, as you say, that can pay in full and are of “that” caliber, get denied. The interesting thing is that some Ivy Leagues practice “need-blind” application. But really, when we’re talking about internationals, that changes many things - and our chances were slim to none in the first place.
“I suggest that anyone in this position, including anyone hoping to have a Green Card next time around in applying, have less selective schools on their list. Schools that may give tuition awards and are local, full awards if not. The search for these schools is sadly not as rewarding to most people and looking at those names that don’t have the luster of Emory or Swarthmore or UChicago or State Flagship just doesn’t evoke the excitement.”
That’s the whole point of having a Green Card. As I’ve told you, there are countless scholarships, money, and tuition benefits offered to Green Card holders or Citizens - and no, I’m not saying that I’m entitled to it, I’m just saying that you can’t waive fingers around saying “Why didn’t you apply to more safety schools or less selective schools”. We did, and that didn’t work. Alabama scholarships or Loyola Chicago scholarships? Awesome. Unfortunately, I only have a 35 and not a 36 so I would be paying around $10k a year.
If I had a Green Card, I would not have applied to 20+ schools, nor would I be scrambling to apply to only highly selective colleges; if I did, shame on me. If I had a GC, I’d right now be committed to UIUC under the Illinois Promise (free tuition). I would have my FAFSA, AND my Pell Grant to give me an almost full ride to my state school
Community College? Also free. Less selective private schools? Probably would’ve gotten into those too. There’s less a burden to afford me than someone who doesn’t have all these financial aid benefits.
" If there is no acceptance from anywhere other than the CC and local state school, IMO, part-time school is the way to go and, yes, there is forfeiture of first year benefits that extend for years."
Part-time school to forfeit first-year benefits (in my case, FREE tuition and almost a full ride to my state schools) is pretty lackluster and I think would be a shortcoming for anyone in a similar situation and residency as mine who plans to do so. I’m speaking from my perspective as an Illinois HS student.
“But then if Green Card Status is obtained, PELL and Direct Loan funds become available. That’s all kids in a lot of states have in terms of financial aid, and many do not have ready transportation to their schools.”
That’s “all” kids in a lot of states have in terms of financial aid? FAFSA, Pell, and state scholarships is “all” most kids have? That makes a world of a difference between being able to attend and not being able to attend. Being lower-class isn’t just living in a smaller house and “only” making $80K a year, for some of us, even a few thousand dollars means being able to afford college. I hope my reply doesn’t come across as accusatory or personally attacking, I just think some things should be clarified and straightened out.
the point that @cptofthehouse is trying to make is that while undocumented students in NYS were always eligible for in-state tuition if they attended HS and graduated in NYS until the recent with the passage of Peralta, they had no way to pay. Now Peralta pays tuition for undocumented students to attend CUNY (the largest urban public school system in the country) and SUNY(the second largest public school system after the UC system). If you live in NYC, there are 19 CUNY schools all which are accessible my mass transit. There are 64 SUNY 2/4 year colleges across the state.
IN NYS a student who receives full tap, Pell and a student loan can go to college. They may need to add some additional funds for the residential experience, but you can commute to college. If a student receives $5 in financial aid and is accepted to a CUNY CC through ASAP, their tuition, fees, books and a metro card to cover the cost of the commute on MTA are all covered.
Before Peralta, in NYC, students were able to get up to 18 credits through college Now, apply for the myself third scholarship or the Dream Scholarship that covers tuition at CUNY. This same opportunity was not afforded to students who attend SUNY.
Yes, the green Card makes a huge difference. Let’s just leave that out of the equation and focus on those who do not have it, like you, and may not get one for a while. Illegal immigrants with and without DACA fall into this category as do international students. They are not entitled to PELL or other federal money, in many states, no state money either. What options do they have for college?
IRL here, they work full time and painfully get through college one course at a time. Community college or a local state school. No scholarships either on a part time basis. In your case, free tuition is available, is it not, to go to a local CC?
ThAt is the alternative after scouring every single college for full ride scholarships. A lot of them have disappeared from 5-10 years ago, when such searches did come up with lists. Yes, every single one has to be contacted and asked if info is up to date, if international , DACA and illegal students can get them. It’s a pain. That’s what it takes. Those, like you with good academic numbers , have a better shot at it than any I know who don’t have the numbers or acumen to consider moving away. They do the slow part time route.
I agree that you should throw in the name brand schools too, especially the ones you did not include first time around, but understand that those are lottery ticket schools even for those who are Americans. Frankly, you are would not be at the top of the list at many of those schools just from your numbers and resume, without consideration of your DACA status as compelling. Which schools usually do not do consider until AFTER the kid is accepted. Then, let’s showcase him as inspiration porn (which is harsh, but it really gives the wrong idea that this is happening a lot. Which is no favor to DACA kids and their cause ). Don’t even count on getting into those schools or get those merit awards. Really hanging on getting off the Case Western wait list for what? A full ride from them? As an international waitlisted student? The chances were nonexistent IMO
Can you get a job with Starbucks? They have online tuition benefits with ASU. No, it’s not the optimal way to go, but it’s a way. How about Soka University? Actually it’s jumped off the beaten track into the high ratings zone, but the numbers s but more palatable. How about getting a job with s CC that might allow you to get free tuition?
You have to go off the beaten track to get the classes. That citizens come before internationals, state residents before OOS is the way it works and is supported by most areas. Through no fault of yours, youbare in a difficult situation as are many children whose parents refuse to provide financial inf or assistance, desert them, abuse them, get jailed. Yes the sins of the father do rain down in the sins as a natural course of events.
I have been dealing with mostly American kids who can’t afford to get an education in a friggin’ academic desert these last two years, unlike here in my home state where there are the most generous college options of all for all. Your state is not where NY is, but it’s not the among the worst. You don’t like the options presented to you as they may cause you to lose benefits if your green Card Arrives. So you are going to go through this roulette again in hopes you net a high chance big catch or your card comes through. If not, you’ll be at the same place again next year, and hopefully those options on the table today are still there then. I’ve seen a lot of the deals, including ones my kids got, disappear in thin air with no fan fare, no announcement. Just “poof” gone.
I don’t understand this statement, not sure Hkim said this…and he was accepted at UIC and UIUC but with an EFC of 0 has no means to pay for those.
On what data are you basing this statement?
Hkim attends a nationally renowned, rigorous high school. Graduating in the top 10% of the class gives him competitive stats anywhere. Adding in an ACT in the 99% percentile and significant research experience at a top 20 university strengthens his profile even more.
Even if hkim doesn’t attain PR prior to the next application cycle, it makes complete sense for him to go through the process again. As he wants to ultimately attend medical school, the community college route (not free for him, but relatively low cost), online, and slow burn routes would likely take the med school goal off the table for good. No reason he has to do that now.
I want to make it clear that it has been known for a long time in this forum that “need blind” admissions and “meets full need” provisions do not always include international, transfer, or waitlisted students. In fact, they often do not. They also do not cover all programs of a university or certain other categories of students.
Also, college students are a shrinking demographic. The peak was about 15 years ago. UC apps were down this year. A lot more college seats not filled. However, I have also noticed, as I said before, far fewer full rides. NY is generous in giving free tuition but getting a full ride, including room and board is very difficult.
Those selective schools that give full ride scholarships and full need financial aid are lottery tickets for everyone, and even more so for those who have to get a fully paid college offer. The thing is, they do not need your great stats. Look for some schools that have full ride scholarships that really want your numbers and may want to “buy” them. I did not see any on your list. It is a lot of work to find those schools. I know a young man who got a full ride at Drake U(still more name brand than some I used to have on a list) Back in the day, I was in Chicago, several immigrant kids I knew got free tuition and commuted to IIT. Getting together a list of such schools would also be a service to many others looking for full rides
I expect when Hkim puts together his list of schools for the upcoming cycle he will cast a wider net than his GC did for this cycle.
I legally immigrated with my parents in 1970s from Korea. Grew up poor living in a trailer court in the south. My father never applied for government assistance. After years of hard work, he opened up his own auto repair business but he passed away in accident when I was 15. One thing I learned growing up poor was how to work. I never thought I was disadvantaged. I joined the Army at 18 and got BSEE on a GI Bill after 4 1/2 years enlistment.
I have two boys 18 and 16 with similar scores and GPA with HKimPossible. I am not a fan of illegal immigration. I know too many stories of rich Koreans gaming the system. There are many students from Korea illegally attending US high schools that are sent by their rich parents. I would like to know how many of these students get free colleges from private university based on need based financial aid. My boys will probably will attend a public college with a merit scholarship. I do not want to spend $300g for a prestigious school.
I am not accusing HKimPossible and I wish the best for her.
As we all very well know by now, there are a lot of people gaming the system, and some illegally doing so. So it goes with any system. Getting a full ride scholarship as an international student, legal or otherwise is not easy. Getting a full ride scholarship, as a US citizen, is not easy either, but there are more options out there.
I have every sympathy, respect and admiration for @HKimPOSSIBLE and truly hope that s/he gets a hit on next year’s attempt. My comments were addressing the lack of the likes of , say Barry College , when kids pursue the Stamps Awards, and all cluster with Swarthmore, and like going after the most selective schools in the country where admissions is highly unlikely even for the very top applicants. Here in NY, I know a number of kids who are either undocumented or DACA and are from low income families. They go to Community college part time and work. Some of them are very good student with excellent test scores but they need a full ride to go away to school. The cost of commuting and other expenses, along with family issues makes even full tuition schools too pricey for them. I’m looking at a cousin’s kid who is probably going to end up commuting even though it’s not a good environment for him to stay home.
This was something a lot of kids did of my generation. Paid for college bit by bit, part time and worked. My neighbor is getting her diploma from a CUNY next week. Took her a long time, paid for it because she had to work, had a family,etc and was not eligible for financial aid. My father who was in Education had a master college plan for his kids which entailed commuting to a satellite branch of a college for first two years and earning the money to go away the last two because he had a free tuition card for all of us there. He, himself, had gone to community college and worked, even with GI Bill before transfering to a 4 year school for a degree. No one is entitled to a free 4 year sleep away experience at any college regardless of stats and resume. In some situations, not even free community college , which our state pretty much has, but… not for everyone. There are caveats even for the most generous situations.