Do W&L coaches “support” or help in the admissions process? Been told by some D3 elite schools that they will support in admissions even though the board scores are a little lower than average for the school. Any thoughts if that is the case at W&L?
Coaches at W&L can offer very limited support for admissions. I was told that you need 1400 on the SAT for the coach to get you in. I did get the impression that the exact score might vary based on the state you live in. If you live in a state with few W&L applicants, there might be more leeway. Most other D3s can offer move support.
My nephew was in touch with a W&L coach for months, emailing back and forth- the coach said he wanted him on the team, my nephew visited the school, did the alumni interview, expressed strong interest to his AO- but he was waitlisted. He was a little confused because the coach was so enthusiastic- and the coach had his GPA and SAT the whole time. Anyway, I posted about this on the W&L wait list thread and two other people said the same thing happened to them. This led me to believe that the coaches only have limited pull with admissions, which I guess makes sense since it’s a division III school.
Based on our experience at highly selective D3’s like W&L, if the student-athlete didn’t get a pre-read in the summer and wasn’t invited for a recruiting overnight then the coach probably didn’t have the recruit high on their list and wasn’t going to use a tip or slot, and as a result the student-athlete was considered just like every other applicant. Even with a tip, a student-athlete needs to be in the mid-50% at these schools as compared to the Ivies where one’s AI can be fairly low if they are a slot recruit.
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Thanks for the posts. Very helpful. Chembiodad, what is AI? Sorry, I’m just starting the process and am not familiar with how the Ivies work. One elite D3 school (not W&L) has already told us about a pre-read this summer and trip. Coach also mentioned ED is your best shot at getting in. Not really pressuring hard, but seems like that would be the hook to get kids to “commit” at D3 schools without scholarships.
I think tips and slots are mostly a NESCAC thing. We never heard that term in talking to W&L, UAA and SCIAC conference teams. But I have heard it from friends who looked at NESCAC. As far as ED, most coaches we spoke to had more pull in ED. Some wouldn’t even consider you if you wanted to do RD. A pre-read and official visit definitely shows great interest on the coach’s part. But it still doesn’t necessarily mean you can get in. There were a group of girls there when my D did her official W&L visit. Several girls were told to take the SAT again because they didn’t have 1400 yet. I’m don’t know what the required ACT is for W&L.
AI is Academic Index. There are calculators and explanations on-line. We did not look at the Ivies. But I know others who looked and it seems like they can get students in with lower scores than the elite D3s.
@Hippo21, agree that the Ivies, Duke, Northwestern, Stanford can go much lower than the elite D3’s. I do know pre-reads are also typical in the Centennial Conference, so that would include Haverford and Swarthmore. That said as you pointed out, unless the student-athlete is a slot candidate (NESCAC’s in particular have an agreed number per school - figure 1-3 per sport at a school with certain sports getting 5 and others 0), the student has to profile without athletes and then it’s what gets the, through during ED and even RD, if the coach really wants them…
@Hippo21 & @Chembiodad - I really your appreciate your posts and education on all of this. Very helpful. Trying to guide my kid through all of this and keep realistic expectations in place. Thankfully, we got started last summer between sophomore and junior year, but with ED deadlines 6 months away it’s time to focus in further. 1400 sounds like the magical number at W&L which equates to an ACT score of 32-33 on a comparison chart I just pulled up.
As others have said at these elite D3 programs academics are very important. With the SAT score of 1400 being the borderline. Just remember that scores have changed with new SAT calculations so it could be higher now.
My son who just finished his first year was told then with old SAT 1400 was the number.
msm1134 This is a bit off topic, but just in case in helps. Here is the concordance chart from the College Board.
I believe a 1400 equates to a 30 ACT (scroll down to p. 7 for ACT).
https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/higher-ed-brief-sat-concordance.pdf
As many of these elite LAC’s (and not the top-5, but rather top-15) this year are seeing median accepted ACT’s of 33 (which is a 1500 SAT), I think most student-athletes are gong to be held to a fairly close standard - so, yesterday’s 1400 is now 1450. Based on this higher bar, I am assuming many coaches got caught off guard and a RD WL was the outcome for many.
Thanks for the continued information. If RD WL was the outcome for many, it makes “going all in” with ED a tough call. If you do that with one school… all the other schools recruiting you most likely won’t support and move on to others. Wanting to play a sport in college certainly makes things quite different and interesting.
Pushing the “pre-read” for as much clarity as possible for your clear #1 school (if there is a clear #1) sounds critical. Based on this thread, it sounds like the W&L athletic department doesn’t have much influence at all. It seems like if you had a few allowable slots with clear parameters (30 ACT minimum, 1350 SAT and high GPA) you could give yourself a competitive advantage in the sport and still let in some incredible kids. Find it hard to understand why the Ivies give more leeway to athletes. I guess that must be the difference between D3 and Ivies being D1.
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@msm1134, if the student athlete profiles high enough and the coach wants them, they will support beyond ED. My DD wasn’t able to get pushed through at her ED choice as she was deferred and then ultimately denied, but she had clear support from other coaches all the way through RD with her doing a lot of work along the way - overnights at multiple schools, updating coaches on times even when they were already tracking, etc…
The other coaches continued to check in (calls, emails) through January, February and some tried to push for ED II, but when she made it clear that she wanted to see if her ED worked out they stayed with her - so as RD decision week was approaching at each school, they checked in to make sure they were on her list, they then checked in on the day of acceptance, and finally they rallied for her to attend their accepted students day. In the end, if the athlete keeps the lines of communication open it will enable for options; for DD it ended up working out at the school that was her #2 from the beginning.
@Chembiodad … Great information. I appreciate it.
I’m rising sophomore this coming year at W&L. I received Athlete Assistance with admissions when I was applying. When I went to a over night visit the coach had the admission team look over my Act scores, resume, and transcript. He told me there was 3 replies admission could give him, 1. every thing is good and they can make it into w&l 2. they have good qualities; continue to recruit them; ex. act score might not be high enough ( this a maybe) 3. stop recruiting them they wont get in. When i got there the coach told me I got reply number 2. My gpa (3.6) wasn’t as high as the other students who had been accepted to W&L from my school before, but my ACT(31) and resume were great! He told me to apply E.D. and i would most likely get in, which I did. I hope this helps.
Thank you for the response. Very helpful
From what we’ve heard, there is a ‘magic number’ for the ACT and the SAT and if the students hit that number, and are solid in all other aspects, they can receive Athlete Assistance with admissions. They provide a pre-read to admissons between your junior and senior year and those that meet the standards are invited for official overnight visits early in their senior year. They are expected to apply ED1.