Agree there seems to be a lot of inconsistencies with terminology and process in sports, schools, and how parents are hearing/perceiving the conversation. The point though is the importance of getting a clear understanding of the expected results from the coach directly. Our experience has been with Amherst, Hamilton, Swat, Pomona, MIT and Caltech where after overnights, the coaches gave us probability figures if we applied ED. They all expressed 90% or higher confidence, with the exception of MIT and Caltech which were both 50/50 since neither of those schools were allocated guaranteed spots.
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Part of the problem is that of nomenclature. Take a look at the 2016 Amherst report on college athletics at page 7, which explains the admissions process. https://www.amherst.edu/system/files/media/PlaceOfAthleticsAtAmherst_Secure_1.pdf
Instead of using the term âslots,â Amherst calls them âathletic factors,â however the meaning is the same as a slot - am impact player whose athletic prowess figures prominently in the admissions process and the number of which is regulated by the NESCAC. Put differently, âslots.â
Instead of using the term âtips,â the report refers to âcodedâ athletes. These are academically high achieving students, who also happen to be excellent athletes. According to the report they are admitted at a much higher rate than non-recruits. There is no league limit on the number of coded or tipped students.
I have no doubt that this is the inward facing description of the process. Coaches probably donât want recruits to know whether they are a tip, slot, coded or athletic factor, since as I mentioned previously, it probably has more to do with the studentâs academic background. Still, it helps to understand the process, which is clearly laid out in the Amherst report linked above.
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Recruiting class size may be true across all the leagues for soccer, not just the NESCAC, but when talking tips, slots, etc. it is not the same. (assuming D3).
Many schools do not have or need tips or slots. The coaches still strongly recruit of course and may offer spots on the team but that school may not have athletic slots with admissions. Slots tend to be for the high end academic and more difficult to get into schools. My take on slots with the higher end NESCAC is similar to a likely letter with the Ivies.
Some parents or the talk around the field will loosely mix and/or confuse being recruited by a coach as being offered special admissions, which may not be the case.
@cinnamon1212 and @recruitparent, I hope that my explanation of tips and slots (or if you prefer, athletic factor and coded athletes) explains the discrepancy. It is indeed true that the NESCAC places a limit on the number of slots at schools each year. This is outlined in the Amherst report above. It comes to about 2 slots per non-football team. However, it is also true that there are always more than two recruits a year for these teams. No self-respecting soccer team could field a team with only 2 recruits a year. That is where the tips (or coded athletes) come in. They are recruited, but have academic backgrounds that are the equal of other applicants to the college. The âtipâ if you will ensures that they will not be overlooked in the mounds of well-qualified applicants to the schools each year. The tip receives a pre-read just like the slots. In fact, as I suggested, the recruit likely wouldnât know whether he or she was a slot or a tip.
I feel anyone getting coach support at a highly selective school is being offered special admissions. Those schools deny thousands of highly qualified applicants. The fact that this athlete is definitely getting in is something out of the ordinary. But I expect our different points of view are semantics.
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I certainly understand that for many sports that coaches need more recruits than they have slots for. Though this is the first I heard of the definition of a tip vs. slot at a NESCAC.
Unless I am miss-understanding, it sounds like you are saying if you get a slot you get in and tips get an extra boost so to speak in admissions that may help. If they did not get a tip boost, then what good is it to be a tip.
As a side note, many NESCAC and other D3s have a high % of athletes compared to other say D1 schools so often 1/2 or even more of the the admitted students or applicants may be athletes. For some small schools, going after athletes is part of how the school promotes itself to sell the school/student over other schools.
I may have incorrectly assumed that essentially at a school like Amherst or Williams, you were either a recruited slot or you went thru with the rest of the student applicants. Similar to if you did not get a Likely Letter at a HYP. You then went thru the admissions pool with the rest of the applicants. Obviously schools like Williams, Amherst, HYP have many all A, highly qualified applicants that do not get admitted.
@cinnamon1212, I couldnât agree with you more. No one ever should take coach support for granted.
@recruitparent, as I suggested above, coaches provide admissions support to both tips and slots. All recruited athletes that get coach support and pass a pre-read - be they tips, slots, athletic factors or coded athletes - have that very high chance of admission. The slot merely allows a college to admit, and a coach to recruit, an athlete whose academic achievements are not as high as the rest of admitted applicants. Tips and slots all âcommitâ and all apply early (or roll the dice, which some are willing to do).
I would say that if Amherst is recruiting you, and your academic stats are right up there and you pass the pre-read, your chances are pretty darn good if you apply early. However, if you donât apply early, you are doing the opposite of committing to the program and your chances of admission will go down (at a place like Amherst, probably substantially). Admissions may not give the coach the power to support athletes in RD or he/she may have found another athlete to support that agrees to apply early. In that instance, the athlete waiting for the RD round very likely will be treated like every other non-athlete, "regular"applicant.
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No. Both get in. Coach has a limited number of each. But the coach will explicitly tell you you have his support if you apply ED.
Lots of threads on this. Read up if you donât know the process.
Macalester is part of the MIAC and that conference has no rules on slots, tips, etc. Any of that sort of terminology that a Mac coach uses is between him and the Admissions office, so try to keep it simple: ask direct questions of the coach, provide honest and clear answers, make sure the money will work.
Youâre talking T&F so itâs not a situation where an athlete could get blocked (like being a goalie.) And Mac sprints are not deep right now (Iâm trying to be polite) so thereâs room for guys that can run. If you want to go there, if you can get in academically, and if you can afford it, then there should be a spot on the team. Talk to the coach about the chances to get in and keep your plans B and C open accordingly.
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I didnât realize this thread had become active again. If you are still considering other schools, you might look at Denison in Ohio. My son is a sophomore and runs track (sprints). Itâs not an urban school like Macalester, but itâs about a half hour outside Columbus and itâs a fabulous school for student athletes, with amazing facilities and support. My son has been dealing with an injury and the care heâs received has been wonderful (Denison Sports Medicine has its own Instagram account). There is also a healthy emphasis on the student part of student-athlete, and weâve been very pleased with the academics. The NCAC conference is a good one, with some enthusiastic rivalries, and the schools are not too far apart, which means not too many long bus rides. One of my sonâs roommates is a recruited hurdler who is having an amazing college career. Denison is also generous with merit.
Thanks. I have read the many threads and believe I have a good understanding particularly with certain sports.
What I was questioning was for the NESCAC there being both âTipâ athletes that get athletic admission ("Both get in.) and âSlotsâ that is well known and has been explained by NESCAC coaches and others.
âSlotsâ could be A, B or C, but they are all slots. Similar to the Ivy process.
Not all NESCACs operate the same way, nor do all use the A, B, C slot system for all sports, nor do all the schools use soft support (tips)âŠbut some do and many of those athletes who had positive pre-reads do get admitted. There really is quite a range just in the conference, which I think is what arbitrary99 was saying.
I agree the process and language can vary a lot depending on school, sport, and coach. I talked with a former NESCAC coach a few years ago in some detail about how he recruited when he was there. He described it this way: He had a set allocation of tips and slots each year. The strongest students would only cost him a tip; a student with an application thatâd be less of a slam dunk would cost him a slot. He never had to guess because the admissions office would flat out tell him which kids needed slots and which were in with tips. The level of certainty was the same and his supported recruitsâslots or tipsâwere always admitted. He could also trade away his slots or tips to other sports for future slots, so his numbers and the numbers of other sports varied a lot year to year.
He also said he rarely if ever got into the details slots and tips with recruits. He just told them that they had his full support and no recruit of his with that level of support had ever been denied admission. So all the talk of slots and tips here on CC would have been confusing to his recruits even though that was happening in the background.
Thatâs just one coach, but there are so many variations in process across these schools and sports, and how the coaches communicate can compound some of the confusion.
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All true. Admissions is explicit as to what is required. The coach may decide not to use a slot and hence not recruit the athlete and save that for a stronger athlete. Some of the schools donât count minorities against the athletic preferences as well.
To the athlete in the NESCAC itâs pretty transparent: if the coach post pre read tells the recruit that they will offer them full support, thatâs all that matters. Ask the coach what percentage of similarly supported athletes have gotten in in the past to be certain. The athlete often wonât know whether they are a tip or slot.
Other D3âs like Uchicago will go further and for certain athletes provide early writes, or early admission letters, similar to the Ivyâs. It says that the student will be admitted in the fall with the ED class) provided their academic qualifications are maintained. That requires a full application not just pre read material, applying ED1, and is done in October.
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@politeperson has it right. @recruitparent, I do think it is worthwhile to distinguish between bands on the one hand and tips and slots on the other. The two are related, but distinct, concepts. The band simply refers to the academic level of the recruit. A band very, very roughly equals A, B band roughly equals B and C band is a C. When I say rough, I mean rough and the bands vary from NESCAC school to NESCAC school.
The point is that if a recruit is a B or C band recruit, he or she is going to need a slot. If the recruit is an A band recruit, most likely a tip will do.
Again, to underscore the obvious, as others have noted, coach support is the key here - whatever band the recruit falls into. If you have got coach support, and you apply early, you should be good to go whether you are a slot or a tip.
Yes, agree and understand about A,B & C band, though very good explanation.
It may be semantics calling an A band recruit a tip rather than a slot as an A band would be a strong academic candidate vs. a B or C that would more than likely need coaches support and a slot used on them to have any chance to get admitted. But in the end I believe it is essentially the same. The point I was trying to make was that there is a max. or total # of slots or tips, combo of A,B,C, that are available for a coach to use.
It is not all that different from the Ivies that us the AI and LLs. A coach will still us a LL on a recruit with a very high AI to make sure they get them to commit/apply early and assure that they get admitted.
Coach doesnât issue the likely letter. The admissions department does.
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Yes, understood. Admissions has the ultimate say, though working with admissions, the coach decides which recruits they want to issue the LLs to. Similar to who a coach would use a slot for in the NESCAC. That is what I was saying.
No, this is not how it works at Ivies. The coach decides who they want to give full support to, or a slot. The athlete likely verbally commits, after a positive pre-read. Then, the student submits a complete application to the college (no full application, no possibility for a likely letter). At some point, an admissions committee will evaluate the app (along with other prioritized apps) and (probably) send a likely letter. There are full support recruited athletes accepted at the Ivies each year that did not receive a likely letter, often just due to timing.
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