Athletic Pre-Read/Early Read

Athletic Recruits
21

This is helpful.

Since you won’t qualify for need based aid (make sure by running the net price calculators), the schools on your D’s list will be the same price whether she is a recruited athlete or not. So, MIT, Harvard, Yale, all need based aid only…so sounds like you would be full pay at those schools.

Merit is hard to come by at the highly selective schools mentioned above that do offer merit, so the plan to try and increase the ACT score is a good one. Look at the school’s common data set to get a sense of how many students receive merit, and how much, on average.

Again, run the NPCs. You could see a difference in COA estimates between Yale (a school that meets full need and is generous) and NYU (doesn’t meet full need, not so generous), just as one example.

Here is NYU’s net price calculator: https://www.nyu.edu/financial.aid/misc/npc/

22

Thanks BK. We agree and would not be ask or accept that any D3 school to provide FA to my D for athletics. Honestly, my D is not a top recruit, so we doubt this type of FA would even be offered anyways (and if offered then we would not accept so as to also steer away from potential problems).

So it sounds like “need based” FA is looked at differently the “merit based” or campus jobs for recruits. Is that your experience? The D3 school my D is currently most interested supposedly is blind to FA aid requests.

We would not want to hinder my D’s athletic recruiting chances at this D3 school by seeking “need” based FA. It sounds like my D should focus on merit and potential campus jobs as FA vehicles.

23

All of my comments are from pre-Covid experience…

All of the D3 colleges my D spoke to had official visits. They are not paid for and there is no NCAA limit on the number you can take. She went to 2 of her visits alone and a coach picked her up at the airport. She stayed with a freshman athlete for 1 night on all trips.

Our experience was that after the coach got a green light from admissions, she offered Official visits. So that’s the next step after the pre-read. Not sure how that will play out today. Maybe via Zoom calls.

Every coach we dealt with operated differently regarding the volume of communication, but they all did the pre-read, official visit, offer. Coaches at highly selective colleges will ask for more pre-reads since it can be hard for them to find recruits who they can get through admissions.

Financial aid and merit - we did not find that the coaches had any say in that. They gave us the name of someone in the right department to discuss this with. I did ask each coach if any girls on the team actually received merit aid. Of the D3 colleges you listed, I believe WashU is the only one with merit aid, possibly NYU. Also, I don’t think the Hopkins and MIT coaches have much pull with admissions. You need to meet certain score targets regardless of how great an athlete you are.

24

Also, important to understand the effect of applying ED to any schools on your daughter’s list.

This is why it might be wise to make a list of selective LACs of interest to your daughter which offer ED II.

OP: It appears that there is substantial reliance on being admitted as a result of an athletic recruiting boost. There are benefits and there are consequences. For example, sacrificing the ability to apply ED or SCEA to a non-recruiting school may greatly reduce your daughter’s chances for admission to highly competitive schools.

Also, being expected to apply ED for the athletic recruiting boost, can cost your family $300,000 or more as merit scholarship opportunities may be sacrificed.

FWIW Athletes get injured & college athletic careers sometimes end unexpectedly early. What then ? What was sacrificed & cannot be regained ?

25

Publisher and hippo, thanks for the great feedback.

Hippo how was your question regarding other members of the team receiving FA received by the coach? Just curious.

My D’s current plan is to apply ED1 to her first choice D3 as a recruited athlete should the coach offer full support. Then my D is planning to apply ED2 to her second choice D3 as a recruited athlete (again assuming coach support).

For the other highly selective schools on my D’s list, my D is planning on applying, as a non-recruit, EA non-restrictive, if available, or RD. My D’s chances of these schools are low even with the best of grades and scores.

Then, my D has a handful of 3-4 safety schools that she will be applying to also where my D will not be an athletic recruit.

26

Helpful response.

Another point which you probably have considered.

The actual cost for 4 years at a top D3 schools such as NYU, UChicago, WashUStL. & Georgetown can run over $320,000. (Emory & MIT are also quite expensive.)

Talk of possible merit money as financial aid strikes me as a bit of puffery on the coach’s part if one is seeking or in need of an athletic recruiting boost. If you have to borrow, then athletic recruiting may be more of a curse than a blessing.

Simple Point: You are receiving advice based on partial/incomplete information.

P.S. Does your daughter plan on attending grad school ?

If so, that can be an additional major expenditure. Sacrificing a full tuition scholarship now, may affect a student’s ability to attend the student’s preferred graduate school.

27

Publisher, your feedback is spot on as to our concerns. We like the prospects of D being a recruited athlete to a couple really good D3 schools. But we are trying to figure out what ED’ing to those schools would look like in terms of opportunity cost at other schools.

I guess we are trying to have our cake and eat it too. lol.

We are concluding that as some point, me D will need to take some risk on choosing a route to college, and we hope to be able to mitigate the risks as much as possible for my D.

28

OP: My post #25 above is in response to your statement in post #21 above which set off alarm bells:

OP wrote:

“We would not want to affect my D’s athletic recruiting chances at this D3 school by seeking “need” based financial aid.”

OP continued:

“It sounds like my daughter should focus on merit and potential campus jobs as FA vehicles.”

29

Publisher, yes my D plans on attending medical school so the costs for school will be high.

My D had received athletic interest from a smaller D3 LAC. My D’s college counselor believes my D could secure merit FA to attend this school that would cover most, if not all, of her college costs. Your input makes this option something to strongly consider

30

@dadof3and1dog: Your user name suggests that you may have more than one young adult in college at the same time. If so, then your daughter’s journey may well affect their options in a restrictive fashion.

The effect of student loan debt on families & on former students can be overwhelming to the point of harmful psychological effects, as well as the inability to marry, start a family, buy a house, take a preferred but lower paying job / career. Essentially, short term happiness can cause a lifetime of suffering for the family.

I feel comfortable suggesting that you start a new thread based on your daughter’s actual stats (GPA, class rank, ACT score, & URM status) and academic interests seeking suitable options financially. You may be very pleasantly surprised by the results.

31

Publisher thanks for the advice. Your comments are very helpful. We will do that on starting a new thread.

32

It can be quite easy to “walk-on” at D3 schools for talented athletes.

Therefore, by seeking merit scholarship awards now, you are not sacrificing your daughter’s ability to play intercollegiate tennis. And, if your daughter is headed to the Atlanta area or other major tennis community, ALTA & USTA teams often include DI & above talent.

What is your daughter’s academic interests, current ACT score & approximate class rank ? = That is enough for me & others to generate high probability–even automatic–full tuition plus scholarships. (No need to exaggerate as your daughter can always retake. Realistically, she needs at least a 29 ACT score, but the higher the better.)

P.S. When I played tennis recreationally, I competed with and against CEOs, former professionals, many former DI scholarship/recruited tennis players, very attractive & healthy people etc. Made great connections. Plus, I was popular since I usually lost in close matches.

1 Like
33

In your posts you have mentioned both merit and FA money and I’m confused as to what you are looking for For each college you have listed, google ‘college name merit’. I believe WashU is the only college with merit money on your list. I’m not sure about NYU. So your child has a slim chance of merit with your current list and you have stated you don’t qualify for FA. Therefore, you are looking at full pay unless you change your list.

At colleges with large endowments, I don’t think it is detrimental to ask for FA. I think coaches mainly care about FA because they know the college probably won’t come up with enough money. Also, Many campus jobs are part of FA and if you don’t get an FA award, you can’t apply for the job.

To maximize potential merit, apply RD.

34

But, if OP’s daughter is relying on an admission boost as a recruited athlete, applying RD is not an option.

35

Several of D’s teammates were on FA( a need blind school/need met school). I never asked their parents on details of their package, but they were given a combination of grants and loans, and they went through the normal FA process as any other FA student. They also got jobs working in the library and the alumni/development office. The coach did help D pick up some easy pocket money by having her work various athletic events off season (e.g. working the line calls in volleyball, running the sidelines in soccer matches, etc…). I think the coaches all scratched each other’s backs a bit on those jobs.

The various rules/restrictions surrounding ED, ED2, EA, REA can get pretty complicated if you are looking at number of schools. Might be useful to set up a chart on the rules and application deadlines (and notification dates). That ways as you get closer to application time, you can start running a flowchart of possible outcomes and consequences. This will help your D prioritize which apps to work on first.

If she has passed the preread, has full support from a coach who has designated slots and applies ED, it’s relatively simple, she will get in unless something weird happens (really bad app, huge fall off in 1st semester grades, bad stuff on SM). If she opts as you contemplated in another thread, to apply ED/EA to a non-athletic recruit school or she applies to a recruit school where the coach doesn’t have slots or can only give your daughter a “tip” or “soft” support, the next steps could be really complicated between ED2’s and RD apps. You probably want to map that out ahead of time.

1 Like
36

The key to @BKSquared 's post is “a need blind school/need met school”.

Did you mean: “need blind school which also guarantees to meet one’s full financial need based on the school’s calculation” ?

If I understand correctly OP & OP’s daughter view being recruited as an athlete as a means for gaining acceptance to a reach school. But, there is financial need–especially with 2 other students in OP’s family. And OP’s tennis talented daughter wants to attend medical school.

37

But If they need an admissions boost, they are not getting merit. Definitely a catch-22.

Here are the colleges in the National top 40 tennis rankings that I know offer merit. There may be others. Note that some, like Wash u, Emory, WL are highly competitive, and others, like Trinity, can be determined by looking at their web site today.

Emory, WashU, Kenyon, Denison, Case, Washington&Lee, sewanee, Trinity, southwestern, Grinnell.

38

“Thanks BK. We agree and would not be ask or accept that any D3 school to provide FA to my D for athletics. Honestly, my D is not a top recruit, so we doubt this type of FA would even be offered anyways (and if offered then we would not accept so as to also steer away from potential problems).”

We are also going through athletic recruiting, though different sport and sex. That said, as I read this thread I feel like you are still a little confused (I could well be wrong!).

For example, the passage above. THERE IS NO FINANCIAL AID (OF ANY KIND) FOR ATHLETICS IN D3.

You’ve said you are looking for merit aid, and if so – in a normal year! – you would get merit aid at a school where your daughter is way above the average for that school. In other words, the biggest merit awards would be at her safety-type schools and you would get zero merit at her reach schools. Are you chasing the merit, or the elite schools? (You seem focused on schools with low acceptance rates, and nothing wrong with that, but those schools either don’t offer merit aid to anyone, or only to a very small number of kids who would be exceptional for that school).

The way athletic recruiting works is that if a coach offers support (and they will say explicitly “I will support your application with Admissions”, they are using one of a very few slots (there are different terms for this) that they have with admissions. For example, soccer gets around 6 a year. For a coach to use up one of those six virtually guaranteed admissions spots, he’s going to want the player to commit to coming to the school. Why waste a spot on a kid who might or might not come? That is why in order to get coach support your daughter will have to apply ED.

If you apply ED you give up the ability to shop around for the best merit awards. I believe (though this is just my guess) that if you apply ED there is no incentive for the school to give merit aid. They give merit aid to entice kids to attend their school. So, they have no need to do that with an ED applicant, they already know the kid is coming no matter what.

All this is to say, I think you have to decide if you are going for merit aid, because that is one approach to college applications, or if you are looking to use athletic recruiting to get into the most selective school possible, as that is another, different, approach to college admissions. Of course, you can have a hybrid approach, but that approach is a third, slightly different way as well. Bottom line, it would be helpful to decide what strategy will work best for your family now and then go down that path.

Finally, a disclaimer: there are always exceptions, I have been trying to outline the “standard” route for athletic recruiting.

2 Likes
39

Thanks for the feedback hippo. In my prior postings, I think I was confusing merit FA with need FA and kind of lumping all FA together in dealing with coaches. This is clearly not correct. We would be focusing solely on merit FA (including a possible campus job).

Publisher, again thanks for the insight. My D attends a highly competitive and academic private school. My D’s school does not rank, but my D has a weighted 4.2 GPA which puts her in the “high honors” group of students at her school. My D has taken a full slate of honors and AP classes each year too. My D scored a 33 on the ACT that she took at the beginning of her junior year. My D is hoping to go to med school but is also interested in business and public policy. Tennis is my D’s most substantive EC, and my D is ranked in the top 150 girls in term is UTSA rankings in our state (which is a large state where junior tennis is very very competitive). Finally my D has several substantive ECs like starting a successful community service project at her school, being a classically trainer pianist, and being an FAA student pilot (while studying to get her pilots license). We are not a URM. Any feedback would be on tuition, scholarships, etc would be greatly appreciated.

40

In very few cases is an athletic boost for admissions worth going into student loan debt.

Why ?

Because almost all schools worth going into debt for are need blind & meets full need schools or, at least, meets full needs schools. (Thinking of Ivies & Ivy Equivalents with healthy endowments.)

Plus, it can be detrimental for an aspiring doctor to use athletics as an admission boost to a reach school as GPA is a very significant factor in medical school admissions. Accordingly, the best option is often a full tuition & fees scholarship to a public university honors college which very often includes favorable grading “policies”.