Athletic scholarships

Parents Forum
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<p>dadx,
please feel free to correct me if I am wrong, but I think it's not permissable by the ncaa restrictions............that those Div. 1 wbb scholarships cannot be split. it's full ride or no athletic $$$$. isn't this the same with men's bball? i think this is sport specific. Can Div. 1 football scholarships be split? </p>

<p>and..........there are d1 programs that chose not to award all 15........choosing instead to have a smaller roster.........and this leads into a whole other discussion on the reasons for a smaller roster. there is discussion in the news about suggestions that the 15 be reduced to 12. 12 is what the men have.</p>

<p>with Div. 2....$$$'s can be split.............partial tuition or full tuition. i'm not sure about where d2 room and board falls in the mix. </p>

<p>dadx and 3bm103 - thanks for your interesting posts. i notice among local athletes in non-revenue sports. they are only offered partial or full tuition scholarships.......these are students that go d2. sometimes academic merit aid $$$'s are found to help with the room and board costs but I think the athletic $$$'s go towards tuition only. maybe this is decided by the particular conferences?</p>

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<p>NCAA Division I legislation places a maximum limit on the amount of financial aid that may be awarded to an athletics team. Aid limits exist in all sports and generally are categorized as either head-count sports or equivalency sports. </p>

<p>Head-count sports</p>

<p>Each counter or initial counter is tallied as one grant-in-aid in head-count sports. Each team has a maximum amount of grants-in-aid that can be awarded. A full grant-in-aid includes tuition and fees, room and board and required course related books. It is possible for a student-athlete to be awarded only a portion of a full grant-in-aid. However, in a head-count sport, the student-athlete will still count as one toward the maximum team limit even if they were awarded only a partial grant-in-aid.</p>

<p>For example, women’s basketball is a head-count sport. The basketball team can have 15 total grants-in-aid awarded. Since a counter or initial counter equals one full grant-in-aid in headcount sports, there can be only 15 student-athletes who each receive one grant-in-aid (full or partial).Therefore, Jane Smith, a sophomore basketball student-athlete, who is receiving financial aid from her institution based on her athletics ability, is a counter. Women’s basketball has a team maximum limit of 15 grants-in-aid. Jane will count for one of those 15.</p>

<p>Equivalency Sports</p>

<p>In equivalency sports, one grant-in-aid can be divided among more than one student-athlete. Each team has a maximum amount of grants-in-aid that can be divided among team members.</p>

<p>For example, the team limit in the equivalency sport of men’s cross country is five grants-in-aid. More than five student-athletes can share the five grants-in-aid. Equivalency value is calculated by dividing the total amount of athletics aid by total amount of a full grant-in-aid. </p>

<p>For instance, assume that John Smith, a cross country student-athlete, receives $6,000 from the institution based on athletics ability. A full grant-in-aid is valued at $14,000. In this case, John’s equivalency value is determined by dividing $6,000 (athletics aid) by $14,000 (amount of a full grant-in-aid), which equals .42. The sum of all fractional awards should not exceed the total limit for the sport, which is five for men’s cross country.</p>

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<p>thanks xiggi :) great explanation.</p>

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<p>While many elite schools do not offer full athletic scholarships they certainly admit less qualified students who are top athletes. Many qualify for generous need based aid.</p>

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<p>barrons- and many elite schools give preference to VERY qualified applicants who are also recruited athletes.Many of these athletes receive NO need based aid.</p>

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<p>Also, if an athlete is recruited for lacrossse & awarded an athletic scholarship, for example, and walks-on for football, his scholarship is then counted against the football team. Coaches sometimes hold back scholarships to award in future years if their scouting tells them premiere players will be graduating h.s. in the future.</p>

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<p>stickershock...........good post too.</p>

<p>i do wonder though if there isn't confusion about aid based on athletic ability versus merit aid based on academics and whether or not to include those athletes in the head count. it gets fuzzy too.........what is the source of the academic merit aid?</p>

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<p>I doubt there is much confusion. Schools will figure out many ways to try to circumvent the scholarship limits and the NCAA will then attempt to close the loophole. I do not know the NCAA rule about merit scholarships but I'd bet pretty big bucks there is a very clear policy about them (and I would also bet it is pretty harsh).</p>

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<p>I know they are somewhat qualified but in the major sports at that school the average recruited athlete has numbers FAR below the student body excluding athletes. Typically SAT score will be 200 points lower out of 1600 for the major sports which can vary from school to school. Some hype hockey, other lacrosse, etc. Football and basketball are nearly always big. Track and other minor sports much less so.
If you don't believe "need" can be adjusted a bit by the schools you are naive.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I know they are somewhat qualified but in the major sports at that school the average recruited athlete has numbers FAR below the student body excluding athletes. Typically SAT score will be 200 points lower out of 1600 for the major sports which can vary from school to school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Barrons,</p>

<p>This may be true but it is moot - colleges have nearly universally decided that an elite athlete with a 1400 makes a more valuable contribution to the campus than another 1600 brain-in-jar.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
If you don't believe "need" can be adjusted a bit by the schools you are naive.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Here's one reality that the most 'naive' cannot circumvent: schools that ONLY offer need based aid cannot reduce the federal EFC. </p>

<p>Here's another reality: elite schools do indeed accept a percentage of athletes who may have 'lesser qualifications' when looking at specific criteria. That is why schools use a holistic approach that balances the elements from 'lesser' to 'world class.' In addition, schools look at candidates and account for their environment to measure them against their peers. Adjustments are made for more than athletes, as similar adjustments are made for SES conditions. </p>

<p>It's interesting how people like to point accusatory fingers at the practices of elite schools that do not offer athletic scholarships by claiming the 200 SAT differences (when not attacking the development admits) but do not talk much about the 95%-98% graduation rates.</p>

<p>Anyone looking for a 'scandal' should be less worried about who ends up getting a scholarship or admission, and start looking at the percentage of students who are recruited and never graduate or graduate with no acquired skills. A goos starting point would be to check the statistics for the last 10 NCAA champions in men basketball.</p>

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<p>Yes, what Art Vanderlay says is absolutely right.Foreigners take many places of American kids in Div. 1 +2. Just want to add my son's description of his last college match.
His match was with a small expensive private college. He says when he went to shake the opposing players hands before the match it was 'comical' as here they were from his school, normal athletic kids between the ages of 18-20, and there were his opponents, former Davis Cup players from foreign countries, 6 inches taller and 5 years older, muscled and matured. Do I need to give you the results?! Oh boy. At least my son has fun.</p>

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<p>It has been shown that need only schools with similar costs will make different financial aid offers to students. There must be some explanation and actually they (highly ranked privates in NE) were busted for collusion on financial aid so they can't offer the exact same amounts. There is room to tilt the table a bit here.</p>

<p>I have no problem with athletic admits. Just don't try to say they don't happen and that athletes in highly valued programs don't get a pretty large advantage in admits to elite schools. Nobody was impugning their grad rates or anything else. Though it has been shown that few ever flunkout of elite schools. The Gentlemen's B is alive and well.</p>

<p>As to the job prospects of the NCAA champs, well most of UNC's 2005 champs may not have graduated but they are making seven figure in the NBA. Florida returned most of the 2006 team and they won it again. Same for the 2004 UCONN stars--several in the NBA. Lets compare the average salary of the winning team to that of a similar number of random graduates the same year. No contest.</p>

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<p>Those who make the big bucks are a vanishingly small percentage of even DI basketball players. However, many of the city kids who are recruited would not go to college at all if not for sport. Some of that class of kids will make it in school and some won't. The system is by no means perfect, but overall I think that it is better to give them a chance.</p>

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<p>On Ivy collusion case</p>

<p>Case 8.4. Ivy League Universities Agree to End "Price-Fixing"</p>

<p>For several years, Ivy League schools met to agree on prices of admission (tuition less financial aid) for applicants. Students routinely apply to several Ivy League schools in their senior year of high school. The schools screen the applicants for quality and then determine a financial aid package based on a student's characteristics. The end result of the collusion by the Ivy League schools was that students received financial aid offers such that the cost of attending any one of the schools was identical. In effect, the collusion eliminated price competition among the participating universities.</p>

<p>The universities defended their practice on the grounds that students should pick a university on the basis of the quality of its programs and not on price. They also pointed out that under the system, higher income applicants tended to be charged more and, therefore, would subsidize lower income applicants.</p>

<p>The Justice Department has declared that the price-setting meetings were in violation of antitrust laws. That is, they constituted illegal collusion by the universities. The universities have been forced to end the meetings and now must determine financial aid packages for students without consultation. One result of this is that applicants to Ivy League universities now receive financial aid offers that vary by as much as several thousand dollars. There is no question that price has now become a major variable for students making decisions about which university to attend.</p>

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<p>The last two post illustrate everything that is wrong about NCAA athletics. What do tennis programs that have become camping grounds for foreign -and often washed-out- mercenaries have to do with education remains a mystery. </p>

<p>Here's a roster from a Division I team </p>

<p>Attard, Samantha Player 5-4 So. 1L North Richmond, NSW, Australia<br>
Bloczynska, Weronika Player 5-9 So. 1L Elblag, Poland
Brightly, Amber Player - So. 1L El Paso, Texas<br>
Chatagner, Harmonie Player - Fr. HS Chevigny Saint Sauveur, France
Deluca, Marina Player - Fr. HS Sao Paulo, Brazil<br>
Kulaif, Isabela Player - Fr. HS Sao Paulo, Brazil<br>
Michaud, Vicky Player 5-4 So. 1L Laval, Quebec<br>
Palider, Katherine Player 5-8 Sr. 3L Mississauga, Ontario Pritchard, Megan Player 5-8 So. 1L London, Ontario
Ramirez, Nilsa Player - Fr. HS El Paso, Texas </p>

<p>As far as NCAA athletics being measured by the success of players in the NFL and NBA and their salaries ... to each his own, Barrons! Others may look at the graduation rate of 27 percent for Calhoun's players and of 14 percent if we only count the African-American players. </p>

<p>Maybe we should simply let the colleges run a pre-professional league and pay all the athletes what they deserve. At least the ones who slaved for years but did not make it in the pros, could buy the education they do not get under the current system. </p>

<p>What a screwed up system!</p>

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<p>Barrons, the stories describing the Overlap Group or the 568 Working Group is ... so old news.</p>

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<p>I don't know. Some coaches are bent on having a winning team and the best players. Sometimes these players enhance the university and add diversity, as they are European or South American and offer a new world perspective. Sometimes the governments of the countries will pay their student's tuition. Quite frankly, it's absurd how important it is to some coaches to have competitive teams.</p>

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<p>Old news but accurate. Sorry to force you to face the facts that are different from your story. Has that ruling been overturned to your knowledge?--I believe not.
I'll be the first to admit that grad rates for many D-1 basketball programs are not great. However to single out the NCAA champion teams is a false positive because so many players from those very best teams are good enough to leave early and turn pro. And that is a wise choice for them as that kind of money does not come to many in life.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Old news but accurate. Sorry to force you to face the facts that are different from your story.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>For my "story" to be different, wouldn't it have to deal with the same underlying issue? What facts --or revelations-- am I supposed to face? Did you point out something about the 568 Work Group I did not know nor understand? </p>

<p>Are you claiming that the school can change the Federal EFC, and accordingly play games that are beyond the grasp of the naive? Please tell us which one!</p>

<p>As far as the basketball analogy, why stop there? Why not glorify the example of LeBron James and Kobe Bryant? Focusing on the few 'world-class' athletes who have little use for what the NCAA should stand for does not address the fundamental problems nor masks the hypocrisy of the system ... and the people who refuse to drop their cheerleaders pompoms.</p>