Attacking Penn's ED policy

<p>Why do people automatically assume that the reason Penn admits almost 50% of its class through Early Decision is to boost it's yield/ranking (even though yield isn't used in the rankings anymore)?
I always thought it made SENSE to admit the most people possible who have Penn as their absolute first choice...
When people talk about how Penn "games" the system, this is what is brought up most... besides talking about ED I don't see how Penn "games" the system anyway.</p>

<p>I really dislike the ED policy. i really want to go to Penn, but i need financial aid and don't want to take the chance. Penn should continue in the path of the other great schools like itself and stop ED, bc ppl like me just cannot do it. I mean even if it was like Yale's SCEA I would apply. Why does Penn do it if not for itself?</p>

<p>Has anyone every seen an instance where Penn gave less money to ED kids for financial aid than RD kids?</p>

<p>^^^ that's what i'm wondering. everyone worries about getting screwed over in ED finaid, but you have to remember it's one of the most generous schools in the nations when it comes to that stuff. I applied ED (w/ lots of finaid needed) and I was very pleased.</p>

<p>Penn admits roughly 48% of the class through ED. Columbia fills like 45% or something. Not much of a difference, but Columbia never gets ED "gaming" grief. Sigh...</p>

<p>I may be a special circumstance, but I applied to Penn ED and have been pampered by Penn financial aid ever since.</p>

<p>Your aid packages ED and RD theoretically should be the same because the financial aid office is not connected to admissions. The one thing you will see is that you cannot compare aid offers. If you get in RD at Penn and other peer institutions, Penn will usually match any need based offers. There are few colleges that routinely offer more aid, but if you find that Harvard or Princeton gave you more cash, Penn usually tries to match it. You cannot do this if you apply ED.</p>

<p>They're not doing it to "game" the system - they're doing it to have control over the size of the incoming class. When you have firm commitments from half of the class by January, it makes setting an acceptance rate and waitlist rate a lot easier in May. It also is an attempt to make sure half of the class <em>really</em> wants to be there.</p>

<p>ED at Penn is awesome.
My parents earn less than 50k, so hence if I get in under their new policy, I'm set.
Regardless if my parents earned over 100k, I wouldn't complain and just take out a loan (I'm planning to do that anyway at any school since Colleges is an investment :P)</p>

<p>I am just scared. My parents make between 120-130K, but I have 3 other brothers (so it is four in all), one of which is in college now, and my sophomore year three of us are going to be in college. The thing is that I ran the EFC calculator on college board, and for the federal method it was: 14K and for the institutional it was 10K. I think Penn uses the latter method bc it is a profile school, and 10K, is more than reasonable without loans. (I would get loans to cover the rest). But at the bottom of the page it says that what schools calculate can be vastly different. So I am scared that if I do ED and get in then they will have a higher EFC and that if I appeal they won't care bc I am obligated to go. </p>

<p>Penn is the second most generous school I am applying to, the others are: Yale, Duke, Brown and UT. So the only school that would beat them out is Yale, but there is no guarantee. I mean if I got into all of them but Yale, Penn is the best option so I do not need to compare aid, but I am just afraid they will expect a higher EFC. Do you think this is a legit concern? Would Penn allow me to appeal under ED, if I needed to?</p>

<p>You are allowed an appeal. I would also call into Financial Services to ask more about the process. If Penn is your first choice school, then make that known to them. They might try harder to ease your concerns.</p>

<p>People (I included) are often critical of schools' ED policies, not because they are trying to "game" the system, but because ED shuts out people like Dbate, for the very reasons s/he gives. Students who are sensitive to financial aid are usually very, very reluctant to apply ED. As a result, ED essentially favors the wealthy, and anytime anybody studies the issue that's what the data say.</p>

<p>Look at the number of people who apply ED to Penn, vs. the number applying EA to other colleges. Penn ultimately gets a lot more applications (and is a more attractive college in many ways) than Chicago or Georgetown, but it gets roughly the same number of early applications (fewer, actually), and gets a much larger percentage of its class from the early round. So people are definitely being excluded.</p>

<p>I also think that picking 45-50% of a class ED is enough outside the norm (about 33%) that it deserves note.</p>

<p>That said, it is completely mistaken to believe that, at Ivy League colleges, ED applicants are disadvantaged in any way for financial aid compared to RD applicants. That may happen at some less-wealthy colleges, but not at Penn or equivalent schools. What DOES happen, however, is that there will be real differences in aid packages, both between otherwise similar colleges (say, Penn vs. Columbia), or between colleges at different market tiers (Penn vs. NYU). It's not uncommon for students who are slightly above the "no loans" ceiling to have very different mixes of financial aid, and a "lesser" college can reach and put in the better bid. That's why middle-income students are legitimately wary of ED.</p>

<p>Exactly my point. I mean Penn is better than my other schools except Yale in terms of what I want in academics and also financially, so even with comparing packages it would probably be Penn, unless I get into Yale. But this ED thing is such a tough decision. I mean what if I get rejected RD, then I will have regretted it but I don't know. What would you guys suggest if you were in my situation?</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If you go over to the Parents Forum and ask this question, 80% (or more) of the parents would tell you not to apply ED anywhere.</p></li>
<li><p>I am a dissenter on that. I think that most of the Ivies have very predictable financial aid, at least as long as your parents don't have difficult-to-value assets (like owning a family business, or a farm). It's possible to look at how Penn has treated people in a situation like yours last year, and to say "That's good enough" or "That's really scary". If it's good enough to work for your family, and Penn is your first choice (or close enough that you don't mind risking never being able to apply to Yale), then you should consider ED.</p></li>
<li><p>If you DON'T do ED because Penn's expected aid is not good enough, then you need to give yourself a thoughtful strategy for applying to colleges where you might get better aid. Not just Harvard and Yale, but less-prestigious colleges that have a history of throwing extra money at the kind of applicants who might be legitimate candidates for ED at Penn. It doesn't make any sense at all to forgo ED and then not have a strategy that might produce a better quality/price ratio than you would get at Penn.</p></li>
</ol>