Attending a Top Prep School will HELP your chances of admission to an Ivy!

Prep School Admissions
1

<p>Okay, I am going out on a limb here. The board has been relatively quiet these last few weeks, and I want to initiate a discussion on prep schools versus public schools: which will help get you into an Ivy (or top rated LAC)?</p>

<p>The consensus on this forum has been that attending a top-tiered boarding school will actually hurt your chances of being accepted at an Ivy League school. They say that you would have a better chance gaining admission to one of these colleges by becoming a shining star at your local public school.</p>

<p>The conventional wisdom says that kids attending a private prep school have a couple of handicaps—A student with a high GPA at an average public school will stand out—whereas the same kid with the same GPA at a top prep school will be lost in a crowd of overachievers. The second handicap is that the Ivy’s do not want to admit a high number of applicants from a single school.</p>

<p>I do not believe this is true.</p>

<p>Statistically, a higher percentage of graduates from the top prep schools (average 20-30%) attend Ivy League schools compared to only 5-10% from the strongest public schools.</p>

<p>Yes, if you are an overachiever and a shining star at your high school, you may have a chance to get into an Ivy. However, would your chances have increased had you attended a top prep school? I think your chances would improve.</p>

<p>Here are just a couple of my reasons why I believe this to be true: Colleges know the rigorous curriculum offered at the top schools—your local public high school might not be as challenging. The environment at a prep school is geared toward college prep—if you are successful in high school, you will probably be successful in college.</p>

<p>Ivy’s want students that stretch themselves academically. Typically, there are more resources available at a prep school than public schools (# of AP classes, numerous extra curricular activities, etc...) (Please note—I said typically. I know there are many public schools that have a wide array of AP classes, and EC’s.) Colleges are looking for candidates that have taken advantage of these resources. It is easier for a student to utilize these opportunities when they are available at the school. It may not be possible for the child to enroll in an AP equivalent class at a local community college. </p>

<p>No statistics to back up my next thought—but I think college admissions people know that if you have been living at a boarding school, taking advantage of all the things your school had to offer, and were a contributing member of the school’s community—you are considered a “good risk”. You have proven that you can be on your own—the college can expect a certain level of performance from you once in college. </p>

<p>One thing that appears to be overlooked—and a key factor in deciding which college to apply to, is the college guidance counselor. At boarding schools, the counselor knows the student—and can help choose a school that will be a good match. Since the top boarding schools have a history of sending their graduates to Ivy’s, the counselor is aware of the requirements, what has worked well in past, and if the student will fit in within the community. The national ratio of students to counselors at public schools is about 500 to 1. At many of the larger public schools, the counselor has never met the student before, and only has one or two meetings to discuss his future. Those counselors may not be familiar with the admissions requirements at the Ivy’s, and may discourage a child from even applying. </p>

<p>I am not saying that it is not possible to get into a top rated college if you attend a public school. I do not believe you should go to a boarding school believing it is a pathway to an Ivy education. There are many reasons why I am sending my kids to prep school—none of which are to attend an Ivy. I just think it is an urban legend that you have a better chance of attending an Ivy if you stay at your local school and do not go to an Andover, Exeter, or the like.</p>

<p>Just my opinion---would love to hear yours! Let the discussion begin :)</p>

2

<p>My guess is if you are not a ivy league legacy, star athlete, URM, etc., your chances of getting into an Ivy are much lower than the 20-30% that is typical. Just as these hooks help you get into top-notch prep schools, they'll help when it comes to college admission time.</p>

<p>However, I do think when you include the strong LACs and other top-notch, non-ivy schools, you are better off at many prep schools than public.</p>

3

<p>Good point-maybe I should have said TOP LAC'S and Ivy's. Just edited it... Thanks,</p>

4

<p>"Statistically, a higher percentage of graduates from the top prep schools (average 20-30%) attend Ivy League schools compared to only 5-10% from the strongest public schools."</p>

<p>What is your source for the above statement? How do you define "top prep school" and "strongest public schools"? I'm sure there is a way to prove this mathematically (Chaos?), but firm numbers and definitions are needed.</p>

5

<p>I got this statistic from articles written by Howard and Matthew Greene. (Howard Greene & Associates, Greene's Guide to Boarding Schools). I also looked at some of the matriculation data at the AESD schools (calculated the %) and read some of the posts of long-time posters, such as Suze, who quoted 35% of Andover graduates attend Ivies. The quote itself is lifted from the Howard and Matthew Greene article.</p>

6

<p>Yes, here for example are the statistics for Milton Academy:
College Matriculations - Class of 2007
Harvard University 13</p>

<p>(3 each)
Babson, Claremont McKenna, Duke, Georgetown, Middlebury, U. Penn, Scripps, Vanderbilt, U. Wisconsin
Colby College 8
Tufts University 7
(2 each)
Amherst, Bates, Colgate, Dartmouth, Elon, Eugene Lang, Fordham, Hampshire, McGill, Northwestern, Reed, Santa Barbara City, Skidmore, University of St. Andrews, Stanford, Tulane, U. Vermont, Wesleyan
University of Chicago 6
Columbia University 6
George Washington University 6
Princeton University 6
(1 each)
U. Arizona, Bard, Bennington, Brandeis, Bucknell, UC Berkeley, Carnegie Mellon, Clark, Colorado, Connecticut, Franklin and Marshall, Grinnell, Hamilton, Holy Cross, Johns Hopkins, Korean Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, Lake Forest, Macalester, M.I.T., U. Miami, U. Michigan, Northeastern, Oberlin, Occidental, Pepperdine, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, U. Rhode Island, Rollins, Sarah Lawrence, U. Southern California, St. Mary’s College of Maryland, U. Texas, Universitat Bremen, Ursinus, Washington University, Wellesley, Williams
Yale University 5
Bowdoin College 4
Brown University 4
Cornell University 4
New York University 4
Trinity College 4</p>

<p>(don't know why the format got messed up)</p>

<p>Now maybe these students would have gotten into these same colleges after attending public schools, but with their top preparation they will be even more likely to succeed at difficult colleges.</p>

7

<p>In 2006 and 2007, approximately 30% of Andover's graduates went to the Ivies or MIT or Stanford. Exeter sent approximately 26%.</p>

8

<p>I know this is a really small sample and not statistically meaningful, but it was interesting to me.</p>

<p>My S's HS the top student left to attend Philips Exeter. Brilliant, accomplished girl, athlete and musician.</p>

<p>Their HS is a top suburban HS with a very small graduating class.</p>

<p>Princeton 2
Williams 1
Tufts 1
UPenn 1
Cornell 1
Wesleyan 1
Vassar 1
Haverford 1
Northwest. 1
NYU 4</p>

<p>This was over 15% of the graduating class. The girl who left entered Georgetown, on a par with, but certainly not above these schools.</p>

9

<p>Those are very impressive statistics! Is the high school a public school? Magnet? Does the school have a good college counseling department--where they try to match their students to the schools best suited for them?</p>

10

<p>Usually there will be an awful lot of legacies and developmental admits at top prep schools; and a lot of good prep schools recruit top inner city minority students. And the entrance requirements weed out the kids who aren't really interested in college. I bet fifty years ago ALL the Exeter, Andover grads went either to Ivies or top LAC so the percentage has been declining.</p>

11

<p>Just to clarify: The OP's post is confined to boarding schools alone. However, there are several elite private day schools that fall under the same "prep school" category. I'm sorry if I'm stating the obvious but I find that this fact is continuously overlooked on these boards.</p>

<p>I am generally in agreement with what you are saying.However, I'd also like to point you in the direction of both Hunter and Stuy High Schools (both very prestigious public schools in NYC), just to show that there are competetive public schools out there that could give any top prep schools a run for their money!</p>

12

<p>Our school is public. Guidance department is just fair. We have no dedicated college counseling department. Guidance counselors do all routine things, make schedules, deal with problems, work out conflicts. College is just a bit on the side.</p>

<p>We do have a very educated parent population.</p>

<p>We all thought for sure the girl who left would be at Harvard. Personally, I think she deserves to be; she a superstar. Her choice came down to Georgetown and Hopkins.</p>

13

<p>


</p>

<p>You're absolutely right, but I think this dynamic is a function of the fact that the Internet draws a worldwide readership. Conversation about day schools is of interest to those who can commute to the area. When the conversation turns to boarding schools, the population for which that option is a possibility expands exponentially.</p>

<p>I don't think it's intentional to exclude day schools. I think it's geographical...and reflects the global nature of this medium.</p>

14

<p>I hate these debates, personally, but if you are going to ask, here is what I say...</p>

<p>The premise of the question is whether the school one attends has any impact on a student's likelhood (I hate the word chances because it sounds like a random lottery drawing) of admission to highly selective schools.</p>

<p>Here is a question for you to consider... Will a prize rose bush look better in a manicured rose garden or in front of my house? My answer is that it depends upon the soil, light, pruning, watering and insect control. The bush doesn't gain beauty from the surrounding plants, but from the environmental factors that stimulate its growth.</p>

<p>Likewise your student will have his/her best chance in a school that has the best characteristics for that particular child. Any of the AESDCH schools may or may not be the best atmosphere for any particular child. Some kids thrive better sleeping in their own beds, making their own ECs beyond what the top prep schools can offer. Other kids benefit more from being in the 24x7 give and take surrounded by high powered achievers.</p>

<p>This is why I dislike this question. It says all kids benefit the same way from the same school environment, which is patently untrue.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
It says all kids benefit the same way from the same school environment, which is patently untrue.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>No, goaliedad, that is not what I am saying at all. I am not saying that all kids will benefit from one type of school--and that the AESD schools are the best for all kids. </p>

<p>My only point is that if you go back and read the posts regarding Ivy League schools--the majority of posters say that you have a better chance of getting into an Ivy if you stay at your local high school. Personally, I do not think that is true. If you look at the statistics--more kids who attend independent schools (which can be a combination of boarding schools or private day schools) get into Ivy's than the public school graduates. </p>

<p>I am in agreement that a school needs to "fit" the child. Of course boarding schools aren't the answer for all children. And certainly the Ivy League schools aren't for everyone, either.</p>

<p>I am simply challenging the statements I have read on this board that say one's opportunity to get into an Ivy League school are lessened because one attends a top prep school. I don't believe it and so far, all of the (albeit limited) research I have done, doesn't support this premise.</p>

16

<p>I'm sorry goaliedad. I didn't realize this was part of a debate. I was not saying that publics were better; in fact, I would have thought just the opposite. My post was really registering that surprise and just providing this info. I don't feel any debate in me. I support any choice a family makes if it works for them and they have the means to implement it.</p>

<p>Neither of my kids wanted to go to boarding school. I asked them. It was good because I really couldn't afford it. What was I thinking?</p>

<p>On the other hand, I think it would have been wonderful for me as a young person.</p>

17

<p>
[quote]
the majority of posters say that you have a better chance of getting into an Ivy if you stay at your local high school. Personally, I do not think that is true.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I have no idea of where "you" will have a better chance of getting into an Ivy, because I do not know who "you" are. My contention is that some "you"s will do better (and therefore have a better chance of admission) at a top prep and other "you"s will do better at their home school. </p>

<p>Now if you are talking on average (and remember there are no "average" people), I don't think anyone has done a legitimate scientific double-blind study (randomly assigning prep school eligible students to a prep school or their local HS - eliminating the chance for self selection) to prove either side of this argument.</p>

<p>I think if a kid has the potential for Ivy/Top LAC admission, (true intellegence, drive, etc.), s/he will optimize his/her chances at a school that fits their personality and needs the best (given reasonable EC opportunities - a kid from the wrong side of the tracks without suitable classes or adequate logistical support for quality ECs will more likely be better off at a prep school).</p>

<p>I said I hate the debate because everyone is making assumptions about who "you" are and what makes "you" tick. </p>

<p>The decision of prep or local should be made with the only the developmental interest of the child in mind without regard to matriculation. Heck, Ivy or Top LAC may not be the best placement for a whizbang engineer, musician, dancer, etc. anyway. And many of our great leaders came through the military academies.</p>

<p>That reminds me of the other reason I hate the debate... The idea that an Ivy League education is best for "you" no matter who you are is patently false. And if this turns into an "average" person argument, it too is pointless as there are no "average" people.</p>

<p>Sorry if I sound like I am picking a fight. I'm just a bit tired. Time to go to bed, I guess.</p>

18

<p>Well sweet dreams, but you make valid points. Fit is the most important aspect of admissions. D's #1 school was Barnard, although Brown was tempting because NYC was more important than Ivy (did not pursue Columbia.) Same for S. Chose Williams over Ivy for mountains. Both very happy with local public and their choses. Others would chose differently.</p>

<p>The two most brilliant kids in S's class chose the free honors college at Stony Brook. One has Danish parents, one Russian. Both dads are world class physicists and already focusing on kids' graduate education. SB has first class research opportunities for undergrads plus families are not laying out any dough. I think they think US families are crazy.</p>

19

<p>My husband and I had this discussion for 4 years while my son was at prep school. Was it worth the money? Would it be better to be the "shining star" at the local HS or to be one of many very good students? (Although, unlike some of the high schools mentioned in this thread, our local one does not send many kids to Ivies or top-ranked LACs- ONE student went to Harvard about 6 years ago-)
However, our husband and I are now on the same page, our son got into his first choice (NOT an Ivy, by the way!!), and although it is a school known for its rigorous academics he is doing well.... as a matter of fact, he was a little shocked at how prepared he was! He tells us that other freshman are having a hard time with the amount of studying, while he is just trying to adjust to not having class on Saturdays! ;0
So, the moral of the story is..... don't go to a prep school because you think your chances of getting into a particular college may be better, go to a prep school because it will PREPare you for whatever college you do attend.</p>

20

<p>Well, D says at Barnard no one was prepared for the amount of work they had, not even her friends from Hockaday and other very elite boarding schools. On the other hand, S at Williams has so much free time he's actually calling me!</p>

<p>I think boarding school is a good choice if it works in the present. If child is restless, parents have demanding jobs or child is very academic and adventurous, boarding school is wonderful. If child is happy, complacent, doing well, well if it aint broke, don't fix it. And yes, the quality of the public is part of the equation.</p>

<p>I would have sent my kids to b.s. if either had desired it; not against it at all, but I don't see the above remarks holding true. Then again, our public is very good, very demanding. For example, S graduated HS with 11 AP's, many awards in national competitions etc. He's not a genius; he is very bright and capable. School encouraged this level of achievement. D had 8 AP's because she had only one science AP and avoided the language AP. She also won national awards.</p>