<p>Hi! I am a 16 year old oboist and I basically have my heart set on a conservatory. Probably Eastman because of the location, study abroad program (London is my dream; I play a fabulous London-made cocobola wood Howarth <3), and prestige. I am fully aware that the prestige means nothing if I do not connect with my instructor (I fully intend on visiting schools and taking sample lessons), but schools such as Oberlin I have ruled out because of the isolated location alone; my oboe teacher has expressed that there are no gigs while you are in school, which is a disadvantage.
SO HERE IS MY REAL QUESTION: My parents have decided that I must be within about 6 hours from home (live in Pittsburgh), and my mother and I had a little spat about her claims that New York City is too hard to enter and navigate in case i need her. Part of me knows that this is because of safety (my sister went 20 hours away and suffered a dental emergency) but I cannot help but be a little bit perturbed at this limitation. Though Eastman has been deemed acceptable, I want to apply and audition everywhere, even if I do not get in! I want the options of Juilliard, Royal Academy, etc. to be open. In your opinions, and from your childrens' personally experiences, do you think this is reasonable? Is it worth it?</p>
<p>Given the competitive nature of auditions, I would have your teacher talk with her about auditioning as several places, and not to rule anything out yet. Ask your mother if her qualms about New York are really about safety or about the ability to navigate as she claims. While it may not be easy for someone from outside to drive to New York, and navigate in the city with a car, most travel within the city is done by public transportation. If she needed to visit to care for you, it would be far easier to get to New York, and then get around using public transit, than many other schools. If she needs to get there quickly because you’re sick, time will be of the essence, and she’s not going to want to drive 6 hours. </p>
<p>Once auditions are done, and you have your acceptances, then it the time to discuss which makes the most sense for your need and hers. What if you don’t get into Eastman? What does she expect then?</p>
<p>Where do you plan to find a job? USA or Europe?. Because, as you know, there is a difference in playing between the two. If you want to audition in the US, don’t go to London to study.</p>
<p>Who do you want to sound like? Go study with the oboe player you feel is the best.</p>
<p>Personally I find NYC quite easy to get to. It’s a 4-hour train or bus ride away for us, and they come on the hour. And some of the best oboe schools are there–Juilliard and Mannes. I also find Eastman–Rochester–to be very isolated–much harder to get in and out of than NYC. Two summers ago my daughter attended a music institute at Eastman. Our 9pm flight out was canceled–and we had to sit at the Rochester airport all night; no more flights out of there, no hotels available.</p>
<p>You should go where the best fit is–teacher, location, opportunity and cost.</p>
<p>What the others are saying fits what I would tell you, that as much as your mom loves you, that you need to find schools that work for you and that is going to take a lot more then simply finding a school close enough to home base. NYC is still sadly a big, bad place to most people, they must watch the movie ‘The warriors’ or something and think it is like that, but your mom won’t have to come rescue you if you go to Juilliard, Juilliard has good resources for the students there and residents of NYC despite their reputation don’t sit there and look at a guy bleeding on the street, that is complete crap. If an emergency happens you will be surrounded by people, and you will be okay. </p>
<p>From a more personal perspective, part of college is growing up, when you get out of college you will be building your own life, making choices. If you dictate things where mom is still in control, on top of the fact she less and less will know what is best (and in music, I suspect she doesn’t, otherwise she wouldn’t issue that kind of decree) and it can hurt you, and I am speaking from first hand observation of what happens when kids are crowded like that. </p>
<p>Without going on for hours, a school is a combination of things in terms of music, it is first and foremost a great teacher, not one who is ‘famous’ for being principal of X orchestra, but one whose students have come out and done things, fame and prestige mean little when you pack your horn and are trying to make a living, at some point coming from Juilliard or coming from NEC means little except what it taught you, the auditioners at the Philly orchestra don’t say “Oh, X has trained at Juilliard, let’s give them the job”…you audition for it, and your playing does the talking. </p>
<p>The biggest factor for not limiting it is because getting in makes ivy admissions look sane. On oboe I would guess music schools only pull in maybe a handful of students each year, 3, 4? it isn’t a lot, and to get admitted to a program you might like might take applying to several ‘top schools’ in your view on oboe, that combine a teacher and ensembles and performance opportunities and so forth…you might apply to NEC, Juilliard, Curtis, CIM, Rice, Eastman and Peabody, and get into Juilliard and CIM…if you followed your mom’s advice, using this example, you might not get into any of the top programs you want and might end up at someplace less advantageous in your opinion (like, for example, Oberlin if it was on the tour)…casting as wide a net as fits your needs makes more sense then limiting it to what you mom thinks is practical, to be honest, and if you get anything out of this, nothing is worth sacrificing your chance of making that. You aren’t threatening death by being out of her comfort range, and being within it could mean another kind of death, of your dreams of making it, if you are forced to settle for a school that no matter how good (like Oberlin), isn’t going to work for you. Music is not like academics, if you get a degree in chemical engineering what you study isn’t going to vary much from school to school, music study is more like an apprenticeship and who you study with is important. Prestige in a school name in something like engineering (for example, getting a degree from carnegie Mellon) could open up doors for the first job, with an orchestra job or whatever, the name on the diploma will not get you that in terms of performance jobs, your playing will and that comes from the teacher and the opportunities of a school.</p>
<p>Between you and me, I suspect part of this is your mom still thinks she knows what is best for you and is more afraid of losing her influence over your life. With music, unless she is a trained musician and/or knows what goes on in music, her kind of knowledge can only hurt you, to be honest, perceptions and reality are two different things. I bet if you asked your mom what she thought was important in a music school, she would say as long as it is a ‘top ranked’ music school/has prestige, that is important, and anyone who knows anything about music schools and music training would tell you that isn’t correct, that going to Juilliard or Eastman is not the same thing for all students and all programs, that going to Eastman, though it is a name school, may be less advantageous for a student on oboe (and vice versa with something else), it is a sum of factors that make for a great school for a student, not the school’s prestige.</p>
<p>Manhattan School of Music might appeal too. Have you looked at Carnegie Mellon?</p>
<p>We thought Oberlin was a happening place, and my daughter loved the conservatory. For complicated reasons, she did not go there, but it was one of her top choices, and she is a girl who loves NYC. I am not sure what was meant by the “no gigs” comment: the conservatory students seemed very busy, and they also travel.</p>
<p>I have to confess that I was afraid the first time I drove into NYC (for a daughter’s auditions, also). Prior to that, I had only taken the train in. My first attempt was early Saturday morning before traffic!</p>
<p>These days, with mapquest etc., it is a little easier. I was relieved to find I had no trouble. And of course, once on the island of Manhattan, the city is laid out in a way that is pretty easy to navigate, both for driving and for public transportation. Now, I’m a pro.</p>
<p>I think musicprnt got it: Your mother seems scared of you going away for college. Whether that is to a music school or not doesn’t matter that much, but losing you, as her child, is quite frightening for any parent. I know my parents were incredibly worried when I left my small town in Norway to attend an international boarding school in Montezuma, NM at the age of 16. And what good parent wouldn’t be?</p>
<p>What you should do, and what I know many of my peers here at my school did before leaving home, was to have their parent talk to someone whose child had also moved out. Do you have older friends who are already in college (preferably doing something musical)? Perhaps you could ask their parents to talk to your mother?</p>
<p>The most important thing you can seek when you apply to a music school, is to have support. I’m applying as a vocal performance major to many great schools this year, and I really miss having my parents support me. My teachers are great, especially my voice teacher, but I wish that my parents could be more involved. There is nothing like having your mum or dad yell “You go, [name]!” at your soccer match in 4th grade, and the same goes for college - no matter how stupid that might sound. So talk to her about it. A lot. Make the idea of you moving away comfortable enough for your mother so that she can support you in your quest to find your future path.</p>
<p>Also, just to shoot in: Fit is important. Where can you grow as much as possible as a musician? That’s what you want to figure out. If studying abroad is important to you, then seek that. If performing every other week is your way of learning, then find that! Best of luck :)</p>
<p>Others have answered the questions you asked. I wanted to pick up on something else your wrote.</p>
<p>The question of gigs while in school is something to discuss with individual teachers at the schools of interest. Some are OK with you playing out for pay, some are not. Some prefer you not do so in your first year or two but permit it after that so long as you are making expected progress. Unless your current teacher happens to be quite familiar with the policy set by a specific teacher, it may turn out that you will be able to earn some money playing gigs in college.</p>
<p>My daughter attended Oberlin for Performance on double bass and she most certainly had some paid gigs while there. The conservatory office even maintained a gig board to connect students who were interested in playing paid gigs with members of the community who wanted to hire musicians. There was also a program where third, fourth and fifth year conservatory students got paid to teach non-music majors interested in learning an instrument but not yet at the level where they could get into the studio of a faculty member. The applied teacher even acted as a mentor in helping the conservatory student prepare lessons and address issues that they could not handle themselves.</p>
<p>I had to laugh at Woodwinds story about Rochester and Eastman. My brother used to live in Rochester. I used to live in Ithaca. I wanted to BAN my son from applying to Eastman because of the travel challenge. And even worse, I didn’t even take my son to his audition but instead mooched off of a dad of a boy also auditioning on the same day to do the drive one rainy winter day.</p>
<p>But on to the subject of distance and home and Moms and Dads etc…I think many factors have to be taken into account when figuring out where to go apply to college and some of it is based on your major and what you want out of school. Musicians in particular have this other dimension to consider because the school they go to has to be a good fit and they also have to like their teacher. </p>
<p>All the schools you mention are excellent and safe. Living in New York City and taking the train home for holidays is probably safer in many ways than living in Eastman and driving back and forth on wintery roads. So I don’t think your parents should be concerned about safety or fearful of you going to any of these schools.</p>
<p>On the other hand travel is expensive and I do think it is reasonable for parents to set limits about where their child can and can not apply based on expenses. We immediately crossed all schools on the West Coast off our son’s list. Our goal was for him to only apply to schools that we could drive to easily. This was especially important because he is a Double Bass Player. We did allow him to apply to We let our son apply to Eastman. In the end he did not choose it partly because he did not want to be in Rochester. Now our son did want to go to NYC. He still eventually wants to go to NYC. But he also was aware that living in New York was going to be expensive. And that impacted his decision to stay in the Boston area for his undergraduate studies. London is expensive, even more expensive then NYC. It is an amazing city!!! But depending on scholarships and tuitions you can not ignore the fact that flying home is going to be an additional cost.</p>
<p>Another thing to take into account is your experience and maturity with being away from home and also how solid you feel about your mental health. Things happen that you as an 18 year old might not anticipate and trust me it is nice to be able to see mom or some relative. My daughter attended school on the West Coast and became very ill with the flu. It was quite scary.</p>
<p>I am in Pittsburgh also, and my daughter is a junior. She’ll be applying next year but probably as a music history major. I think if you can get your mother to compromise a bit, you’ll be in good shape. From my point of view, 10 hours from Pittsburgh includes most of the best music schools in the country, as you’ll have Indiana, Chicago, NY and Boston. My daughter is also very interested in a program at King’s College in London. I’m a bit apprehensive about her studying abroad as an undergraduate. I will probably end up supporting her application, however.</p>
<p>I agree with most of what is written here. My son attended Eastman and had a wonderful experience. He did grad school in NYC and currently lives there. It is one of the most vibrant music scenes in the world. I discouraged him from applying to schools there for undergrad although if he had had his heart set on going there, we would have looked at it. I find NYC very easy to navigate, especially compared to Pittsburgh :)</p>
<p>As far as schools to look at, in addition to those listed above you might want to consider Peabody in Baltimore. As far as getting gigs as an undergrad, I think it doesn’t really matter where you go. You will find them Oberlin just as easily as elsewhere. You will actually have a lot more competition for them in NYC. But undergrads often don’t have too much time for gigs. Undergrad performance majors are very demanding and there isn’t a lot of time left for other things.</p>
<p>One thought on things like gigs and such, there are two different dimensions here that are similar but not the same:</p>
<p>1)Performance opportunities. These include all kinds of things, chamber music, orchestra, small ensembles, dance gigs (if the school has a dance department), recitals, etc, etc…make up the majority of what a student does, and not every environment is the same, some schools have all kinds of opportunities, to play music of student composers, outreach, you name it, others may not have as much, and how much ug students get can vary from what I see. </p>
<p>2)Gigs (paid or unpaid), in the ‘outside’ world, could be playing a wedding, could be playing pit band for a local school, could be a variety of things. The value of these is getting to know other music students and more importantly, musicians, to learn about how gigs happen, to learn how to network, because gig work is often the lifeblood of musicians. A lot of the kids whose whole world is being ‘great soloists’ or being concermaster of x orchestra can disdain this kind of thing, and when they see the reality of music may not know how to deal with it. The experience will be different between an oberlin or being in NYC at Juilliard (NYC has a wealth of music, but also a wealth of competition, whereas gigs may be easier at Oberlin, to use someone else’s example). Getting gig work in NYC is a plus if the person plans to stay in NYC area, because they start making contacts with people ‘in the scene’ (same for other places, of course), and it can make getting pro gigs after school easier.</p>
<p>Like anything in music, it is all tradeoffs…I think the one thing I would find out is what kind of performance opportunities do students have as an UG? Some schools, performance opps tend to go to grad students, at others, they provide a wealth open to ug and was as grad students, and that is part of what you need to do when looking at the schools.</p>