<p>I have a hard time understanding how selectivity is part of any school’s ramking. I am most familiar with Georgia Tech and Auburn as those are our “family” schools. People often denigrate Tech for not being selective enough, but the truth is that many people know that it makes no sense to apply so there is much self-selection. I am guessing there is some self-selection for Auburn by people who know they cannot get into Auburn and hope to get into Alabama.</p>
<p>If that were true then nobody would apply to Harvard as they reject more than 90% of those who apply. Why don’t they self-select if the students who apply to Auburn do? Selectivity is a huge indicator of ranking. I am not familiar with Auburn, I am just trying to understand how it is a much “better” school and Alabama “takes anyone with a pulse” if Alabama is rejecting almost half of those who apply.</p>
<p>I have a D who has applied to both UA & AU. I have looked at the common data set for both schools and I would agree with the folks on the AU board that there is some self selection in those who apply to AU compared to UA. From the most recent common data set:</p>
<p>The middle 50% ACT for AU is 23 - 29. The middle 50% for UA is 21 - 28.</p>
<p>At AU for 2009; 22.90% of freshmen had ACT score between 30 - 36, 51.20% had score between 24 - 29 and 25.60% between 18 - 23.
At UA for 2009; 18% of freshmen had Act score between 30 - 36, 36% had a score between 24 - 29 and 45% between 18 - 23.</p>
<p>If there is not some self selection by those who apply to AU compared to UA, then why is UA more selective but AU average ACT score is higher?</p>
<p>AU and UA are similar enough in the rankings that any differences are probably easily within a statistical margin of error. Such similar selectivity rankings or an ACT point here or there means nothing when it comes to a predictor of your child’s success at either campus. Both are solid big state public U’s with similar rankings but different personalities. It’s going to be about specifics and intangibles - do they have a solid program in my child’s chosen major… do I like the food… does it ‘feel’ right… how’s the pizza… do I like the surrounding town… do I like all this red/orange… what’s with that mascot anyway…</p>
<p>Visit both schools - ride the public transit, talk to a student, go have a pizza with the locals, walk the grounds, talk to faculty and advisors. </p>
<p>The question isn’t whether your child should go to the school ranked 79th vs. 83rd - it’s which school is a good fit and a place where your son or daughter can best excel and become an adult.</p>
<p>I am also a prospective student, so I also have no bias opinion on this subject, but I think its funny to read over the arguments of the University of Alabama people.
Auburn actually has an average GPA of 3.79, and their Average SAT scores are 1797.
Alabama is a good bit lower with a 3.4 Average GPA and 1662 SAT scores.</p>
<p>Basically Auburn’s average student is close to an all A’s student, and their SAT scores are well above the national average.
Alabama’s average student got half A’s and half B’s in high school, and their SAT scores are not too much above the national average.</p>
<p>They are both decently big party schools, and that’s not hard to believe since both schools have over 20,000 students so I’m sure there are constant parties.
ALTHOUGH, Auburn is considered a good college town while UA is not.</p>
<p>As an out of state senior at Bama, I can say it has afforded me a top notch education. One of the reasons I chose Bama over other schools was it had more USA TODAY scholars than any ivy league college since the inception of the award. The Honors College offers so many benefits that I didn’t even get to experience them all. As to scholarships, I received over half of my total cost from the University. The rest I received from outside scholarships leaving me debt free as I graduate. But when I attended the weekend focused on honor students my senior year in high school the head of the department said, " We will help your dreams come true". I can honestly say they have done just that! I have deans of several colleges on my speed dial and they have given me support in various activities I have been involved in over the four years! It is a very relationship-based school if you take advantage of it! I can wholeheartedly encourage anyone to go here. Auburn is no doubt a great school but I am glad I chose Bama!</p>
<p>^^^Well said pkaahardin !! My son is a second year student and has already had a similar experience at UA.</p>
<p>zack1328: Have you visited both UA and Auburn?</p>
<p>My daughter was accepted to and visited both AU and UA. Both offered her exceptional scholarships. The UA campus is larger than AU’s and is busier. For my daughter, however, she felt that the AU campus was more relaxed, a bit less formal, and very, very friendly. She didn’t really care about the football thing (though she enjoys going to the games!) My D also was impressed by the time and attention that COSAM faculty gave her, and she truly admires her chemistry instructor. D was not interested in greek organizations and didn’t want to feel the heat to join. She has a friend at 'Bama (who is in a sorority) and her friend told her that there was more pressure to jump on the greek bandwagon than she expected, and evidently, a HUGE number of girls go through rush in the fall. (Now, I can’t confirm any of that claim – this tidbit is strictly 2nd-hand info, so make of it what you will.) Anyway, she just liked the feel of Auburn, it was more to her personal liking. Everybody is different, and should choose which school works best for them, and will help them transition into responsible, happy adults.</p>
<p>^^^^That is so true, that is really why the student must go to the campus and tour (after doing their research) and see which “fit” is right for them. I am glad that your daughter is happy! :)</p>
<p>" I am also a prospective student, so I also have no bias opinion on this subject, but I think its funny to read over the arguments of the University of Alabama people.
Auburn actually has an average GPA of 3.79, and their Average SAT scores are 1797.
Alabama is a good bit lower with a 3.4 Average GPA and 1662 SAT scores.</p>
<p>Basically Auburn’s average student is close to an all A’s student, and their SAT scores are well above the national average.
Alabama’s average student got half A’s and half B’s in high school, and their SAT scores are not too much above the national average.</p>
<p>They are both decently big party schools, and that’s not hard to believe since both schools have over 20,000 students so I’m sure there are constant parties.
ALTHOUGH, Auburn is considered a good college town while UA is not. "</p>
<p>UA’s avg. GPA is not 3.4. It is 3.5 as of last fall, so it is likely higher than that now. As for the higher avg. ACT and SAT. Yes, it is true, but both schools have almost the same number of top notch students (those with really high ACT or SATs). Many more people apply to Bama, so it can afford to have a higher rejection rate than AU, but still has a lower overall avg. because it gets so many more students to apply and actually enroll. With its enrollment at record heights, it must increase its admissions standards. </p>
<p>As for the college town thing, Auburn IS a great college town, but so is TTown.</p>
<p>Newsweek just reported that Auburn is one of the hardest schools to get an “A” in an article on college grade inflation. I think selectivity also relates to which school in a university you are talking about. Students in the engineering college might have higher stats than those in, say, the arts…</p>
<p>It’s interesting that abtsmom mentioned the hard A article – Auburn has perennially been a tough place to earn an “A” – check out this link:</p>
<p>[GradeInflation.com’s</a> Sweet 16 of Tough Graders](<a href=“http://gradeinflation.com/sweet162010.html]GradeInflation.com’s”>GradeInflation.com's Sweet 16 of Tough Graders)</p>
<p>They will release the list for 2011 sometime in early 2012. Auburn makes you work for your grades! Science and engineering schools (like AU) generally dominate the list.</p>
<p>A bit of a crap shoot, althought I would give the edge to Alabama only because:</p>
<p>1) Nationally, they seem headed to top 50, whereas Auburn is stagnant or on the way down.
2) Alabama is harder to get into
3) Alabama has way more post on college condidential (ivy leaguish)
4) They attract more quality OSS with thier scholarships.
5) They attract more competitive URM with their scholarships.</p>
<p>Auburn tried keeping up with Alabama in the last few years… but Alabamas has been very aggressive in getting the cream of the crop students.</p>
<p>I have a brother at Auburn, and the scholarships that were a available to him (class of 2014) is significantly greater than what I expect to end up (even though my credentials are better than his, whereas I will be getting a full ride from Alabama.</p>
<p>This is just one example where Alabama will get the better student.</p>
<p>There is no doubt that UA is a rising school. They have worked very hard to get the 'Bama president’s overall goal of a campus population of 35k. Bama has a vision of becoming a dominant State U in the South. However, don’t confuse Alabama’s admissions rate of 50% as automatically being “harder” than AU – this is incorrect. As mentioned earlier in this thread, Auburn’s admissions criteria introduces an element of self-selection. Moreover, Alabama gets far more applications that AU, and these are coming from students of all abilities. They get more apps, and they can turn away more. Yet, their score ACT avg. and GPA avg. of incoming frosh. is lower than AU’s, so you can’t say they are necessarily harder or pickier. The situation is just different. </p>
<p>Bama took a sharp rise in the US News rank a couple years ago, surpassing AU. Auburn has risen too, but not at the rather meteoric rate that Bama experienced 2 years ago. I think you may want to review how US News formulates its ranking criteria before drawing too many conclusions from the rankings in general. Once you see how they come up with the scores, you might have a new perspective on many of the colleges in the count.</p>
<p>Also, AU took 180 NMFs last year, UA took 181 – basically identical. While it is true that this year AU cut their National Merit Award, (and this will cost them some valuable students) their Honors College will undoubtedly remain harder to get in. They have a smaller HC and just can’t take everybody. Hopefully in the near future, AU will restore their OOS NMF, Presidential, Heritage, etc. scholarships to past amounts. </p>
<p>Yes, UA has a lot more traffic on its College Confidential page. There are some tremendously helpful and knowledgeable people who will bend over backwards to answer any questions. Too bad college chat room discussion activity isn’t measured by US News for their rankings. I don’t think it will be a deciding factor in the near future either. While the AU board is often a rather sleepy place, there are no obnoxious or inconsiderate posters on this forum. Judging from posts that I’ve read in the past on the UA board, (and I’ve read quite a few) I can’t say the same thing. There are individuals on that forum who often tell those who don’t agree with them to just leave the thread (or worse). You won’t see that here. All opinions or questions seem to be very welcome. War Eagle!</p>
<p>AUDellmom is absolutely correct. Auburn is not easier to get into. I am a Bama alum, and love UA, and how it is improving, but I am also honest. AU is a great school too. We don’t need to put down the other school to feel better about ourselves. We can both be very proud of our schools.</p>
<p>Congrats to UA, Atlanta68, on their dominating win in the BCS championship! The crystal football is getting a very extended stay in AL! </p>
<p>The state of AL is very fortunate to have two relatively strong state universities. I would think that their goal would be to have two institutions that are as academically strong as University of GA and GA Tech – both of which are excellent state schools. From a price standpoint, UA and AU are tremendously good deals (especially for OOS students).</p>
<p>I was an AU undergrad and a UA grad student. </p>
<p>What major? Each school has a clear focus. </p>
<p>What do you expect the college to provide for you?
The AU business model is basically to be very selective and focus on core areas. The UA model is to grow as large as possible and pick out a group from the larger pool to pour resources into. I feel that the true top students do much better at UA because of that level of support but the average student at AU does better because of a higher level of basic support in education. UA gets leaders out of the UT and now Texas Tech systems because they know how to grow a school to include using branding of athletics. It is no surprise that UA won national championships in four sports and almost won in another given the support given to the athletic department (all of this while having a top tier graduation rate for athletes). To UA that is just one more way to market to high school students. AU is going to have you feeling more part of a family because you know the guys/gals in your class a lot more. </p>
<p>Never make a decision based on a forum post though. Go to the schools and figure it out. If it is the right school you will know.</p>
<p>Disregard rankings. They can be skewed. I’d look at statistics, Auburn’s entering freshmen have a GPA of around 3.8 whereas Alabama’s freshman have an average entering GPA of 3.5. Look at ACT scores, and Auburn’s are about 2 pts higher. Clearly, Auburn is more selective, but because they “accept” a larger percentage Alabama gets more points.</p>
<p>Also, look at student to faculty ratios. Alabama 19:1, Auburn 18:1. Large endowments mean nothing if you’re just another face in the crowd.</p>
<p>The “rankings” also give points to higher tuition, and more students with financial aid (which seems like double dipping) but UA charges more, and gives financial aid to more students. Which is great, since they can give a little bit of financial aid to someone, and then still charge more than Auburn… meanwhile collecting points in two categories, it’s a win win.</p>
<p>Also, national merit scholars look at scores of (reading +math + writing). As an engineering student who aced the math portion of the PSAT (and the GRE for that matter… only got a 35 on the math portion of ACT, though) and still wasn’t an NMS due to average reading and writing, I can assure you that even that can be inflated and overrated. (Look at the GRE statistics, engineers with a 1200 are Deities while humanities of 1200 are “average” due to the fact that the english portion is significantly harder than the math portion. Average humanities are around math 700, english 650 (1350)… engineers are around math 780, english 400 (1280 ish)… I had no problems getting into grad school with a GRE score of 1220. Math 800, english 420) It is easy to see why an “engineering school” (18%) wouldn’t put as much weight on NMS.</p>
<p>As for Alabama’s Engineering program being comparable to Auburn’s, I don’t think so. I know it’s been a while, but when I was there (2002-2006) UA wouldn’t even show their faces at the Regional AIAA conferences (American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics). Meanwhile, Auburn pretty much always placed in the top three (sometimes twice) in AIAA Region 2, and even took best undergraduate paper in the country in 2005 (thanks to Ryan Leurck and Richard Bramlet) </p>
<p>Alabama is notoriously easier. They have lower entrance standards, they have received national recognition for “students study the least”, and they have received national recognition for grade inflation (average gpa of 3.3 vs average HS gpa of 3.5… it is statistically slightly harder than H.S.)</p>
<p>Compare that to Auburn: Auburn has higher entrance standards, they have received national recognition for “students study the most”, and they have received national recognition for low GPAs (average gpa of 2.8 vs HS gpa of 3.8… trust me when I say, it is very difficult)</p>
<p>As for Auburn having a smaller honors program. Unless you’re in Poly Sci, liberal arts, or humanities, it doesn’t make much difference. Mainly, because the “honors” classes are mainly core, so an engineer with an honors degree is saying, “hire me because I took a more difficult English class than my competitor”… it doesn’t really mean much. Meanwhile, if your opponent spent 100 hours in the lab while you were writing more difficult English papers, you wouldn’t even be on the same level.</p>
<p>Alabama can brag about their number of National Championships… Auburn can brag about how many astronauts they have.</p>
<p>If you are going into medical, poly sci, or even business (business is a coin flip really)… or, if you don’t want to work that hard, I’d say Alabama. Otherwise, Auburn… all day, every day. War Eagle!</p>
<p>My D is a sophomore business major at AU. Auburn was just ranked the 16th hardest school in the nation to earn an “A”–NO grade inflation. What sold us on Auburn (she didn’t apply to UA) was that 99% of the business school graduates found a job in their field of study after graduation (and that was in 2009 when no one was hiring!) I’m sure engineering is similar. The Auburn network is huge nationwide.</p>