Audition/class size numbers

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Thank you for the reply</p>

<p>I am aware that what I asked for is not obtainable from the list above and that the list above does not contain all schools.</p>

<p>I suppose what I need is some reassurance that the percentages in the list above are not as scary as they seem. For Example if I read that there was only a 2% acceptance rate at each but that there are 50 schools and only 100 different students who applied/audition that would tell me that everyone was accepted somewhere. This would in turn allow me to breathe again.</p>

<p>As the information is not available, would you give me a 'educated guess', taking in consideration your strong knowledge base, how many students get in no where?? or to put it in a positive tone, how many students get to continue in their quest to learn what they love (Musical Theatre) at a college somewhere, although granted it might have not been their original first choice ??</p>

<p>Thank You</p>

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<p>It's SO important to include safety schools on your list. And the only schools that fall into that category are those that you know you can get into academically, and that also do not require an audition. Try to find at least one school that meets those qualifications. As we have seen on this discussion board, it happens every year: some students don't get accepted at any of their "reach" schools. It happens pretty often. Maybe kjgc can come up with an educated guess.</p>

<p>My guess? I think that the regular participants on this discussion group are unusually well-prepared; however, there are a lot of other people out there who aren't -- I've seen them at auditions, frantically trying to learn their songs and monologues at the last minute. I certainly can't prove it, but I'd be willing to bet that at least 30% of the total are not accepted to ANY of their schools, based on their audition. Maybe more. Anybody else have a guess?</p>

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<p>There are many quality programs that accept anyone who is academically eligible. I am not a fan of the term "safety school". To me, that indicates a lesser choice. I know what is meant by it, so before I set off a stream of replies, let me say this is my problem and I need to deal with it.</p>

<p>I would argue that anyone who wants to train in the area of musical theatre can do so at a school with quality teachers and quality productions.</p>

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<p>I have no idea the percentage. </p>

<p>But one way to look at that list is to remember that those who are admitted to BFA in MT programs are often admitted to more than one but can only attend one and so the overall chances to get into any BFA school at all are a bit better than the single digit admit rates at any one particular program. Also, the chances are better for boys. Anyway, I agree with onstage that there is a chunk of candidates auditioning for these programs who are not truly competitive to get in and so in some ways, if YOU are truly competitive in the talent pool, your chance are better than the published admit rates because somem kids in the audition pool are not truly in contention. This is even true at academic schools like Harvard. There are some who apply who have virtually no chance of being admitted. Take those kids off the pile, your chances go up a bit. Unfortunately, it leaves a LOT of candidates that truly ARE in the ballpark. Buut there are some ill prepared or truthfully unrealistic candidates applying to some competitive BFA programs. That still leaves plenty of true contenders. I agree with onstage that those represented on this forum are not an accurate cross section of those applying/auditioning. The mere fact is that those who come here and seek information and become learned of what it takes and so forth are not typical of the entire applicant pool.</p>

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<p>A good term for safety school would be "sure bet" or "likely" school. It needs to be a non-audition school where one's academic qualifications are above the mid range of accepted students at that school and where the admit rate is not real low. It would be a school where you feel very likely and certain you'd get in. But the school is not a lesser school. Picking one's likely schools should take great care and thought and not simply a matter of tacking schools you could get into onto the list but not really wanting to attend them. It is natural to have favorites on a list but the "sure bet" schools should be ones you'd be happy to attend. Pick these with great care.</p>

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<p>My opinion is such that just as beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, talent is in the eyes and ears of the panel auditioning the student. Of course you aren't going to get into Harvard if you don't have the grades or sat scores etc, that is in black and white, talent is not. Just as long as you are prepared with your music, mono , head shots etc....and you have everything prepared the way each school asked for, go for it, there is know sure way of knowing what each particular school is looking for at any particular time, just don't put all your eggs or dreams in one basket, try-out a lot of schools your are auditioning them too!</p>

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<p>A number of you have been asking to put these tiny acceptence rates in a broader perspective. While there is no absolute data available on how many unique individuals try out for MT programs, I thought the following analysis makes some resonable estimates from an expert. It was written by Dr. John Stefano the Chair, Department of Theatre and Dance, Otterbein College, better known to us on CC as "doctorjohn." While I realize copying posts is generally not done here, given this conversation, this one seemed worth repeating.</p>

<p>doctorjohn says in post #67 of the First-Timers: The Stressed Parents Thread:</p>

<p>"NUMBERS</p>

<p>As we approach the week of the Unified Auditions, I've been musing about numbers. I've written about this before, but not in the detail I'm about to present. </p>

<p>It is true that the top schools take a very small percentage of applicants, in some cases less than 5%. That's especially true for women. Last year [in 2005], we auditioned 151 women for MT at Otterbein. We made initial offers to 4. That's 2.65%. One turned us down. We eventually accepted two from the waiting list. So that's 6 offers to 151 women, or 3.97%. Daunting. Scary, even.</p>

<p>But, as I've said before, the laws of physics dictate that even the most talented students can't enroll in two schools at the same time. Let's see what that means.</p>

<p>There are 30 schools for which collegeconfidential.com has created individual threads. Let's just deal with those, and not the remaining 92 on the Big List. From my reading, it appears that the average number of students accepted into those 30 MT programs is around 20. We're at the low end of the scale at 8; CAP 21 is at the high end with 60. That means that there are 30x20 or 600 spaces for MT majors at the 30 schools. 600 is a whole lot more than 8.</p>

<p>CCM, CMU and Tisch report that they audition between 700-1000 students. But that doesn't mean that they collectively see 3000 students. With cross-applications, it's probably more like 1500. My guess is that the 30 schools are seeing around 1800 students total for their 600 spaces. 600/1800 = 1/3. Not bad odds.</p>

<p>We have to modify this a bit for gender. Our statistics show that 67% of our MT applicants are women. Let's assume that's the pattern across the country. So of the 1800 students who are auditioning for MT at the 30 schools, my guess is that 2/3, or 1200, are women. They're auditioning for half the slots, or 300. 300/1200 = 1/4. That's 25%. Not quite as good as 33%, but much better than 3%.</p>

<p>If my analysis is anywhere close to being right, women have something close to a one-in-four chance of being admitted, eventually, to one of 30 schools. I say "eventually" because the top 10% of students are going to receive the first-round offers. But they cannot choose more than one school. So eventually 300 of the 1200 women will be placed in one of the 30 schools.</p>

<p>If you look at the Big List, and make similar assumptions about the entire group of 122 schools, they have 122x20 = 2440 spaces for MT students. I think that means that there are spaces for everyone who really wants to do Musical Theatre. I find that a hopeful thought as I approach the audition season."</p>

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<p>What a fabulous post. Very informative and REASSURING.</p>

<p>Ken6038 - thank you for remembering, finding and copying the post
DrJohn - thank you for researching and calculating the information</p>

<p>Everyone on CC is so very helpful. You are all greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>BOCO (BFA MT) 1000/40 (accept 57)</p>

<p>can someone explain this? the 1000 is how many apply, what is the 40? and is the 57 how many they accepted?</p>

<p>thanks!!!!!</p>

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<p>Regarding the number 40...that is the total number of students they want in their MT class. They accept (make offers to) 57 thinking that not all 57 students will decide on attending (matriculate). At least that's how I would read it.</p>

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<p>OHH ok. so none of this is reguarding transfers, unless specified</p>

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<p>also, i know its not a very top program, but does anyone know about fredonia or buffalo?</p>

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<p>Most schools (not all, but most) make offers to more students than they expect to actually enroll. In other words, according to the figures above, 1,000 students audition at Boston Conservatory for musical theater and the school offers admission to 57 in order to <em>yield</em> 40. (The admissions officers there know that some of the kids to whom they offer admission were likely also accepted elsewhere and will go elsewhere, for various reasons, including money, etc.)</p>

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<p>We'll know for sure on opening day, but according to my D BoCo has at least 57 incoming freshmen for MT. And more boys than girls, go figure.</p>

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<p>i just wish i could get clarity on how all my schools feel about transfers. I know i will have to start over, but will they view me differently in the audition?</p>

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<p>Just an update on this year's incoming class at NYU Steinhardt...at an accepted students meeting we were told that 50 vocal performance students (both musical theatre and classical) were accepted to yield an incoming class of about 25 total. Instead, there seems to be 32 plus students who are attending (based on who joined the facebook group...so there may be even more students who haven't joined on facebook.) There are also many more classical voice students than in previous years (at last 13.) Not sure if NYU expected those numbers and whether they wanted more balance between classical voice and musical theatre by design.</p>

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<p>I understand that the schools offer admittance to more students than they expect to attend. But, I am wondering if it is a little disappointing if you were expecting smaller class sizes with more personal attention. Or, does it really make that much of a difference since the classes still are "small"?</p>

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<p>xoxtinysingerxox - the transfer question will receive a different answer depending on the school. </p>

<p>Some schools consider transfer students completely separate from incoming freshmen in terms of transfer admissions. At many universities the transfer application deadline is later, and the university admissions office will not look at transfer application or make offers to transfers until they have completed the freshman admissions cycle. This impacts the department audition process making it impossible for them to consider transfer students in the same pool with freshman applicants.</p>

<p>Some schools will consider transfer students coming into their sophomore class if there is space available and the student is ready to enter the sophomore level of training (allowing a student to finish in three years rather than four years). This too would impact whether or not a transfer applicant would be considered with the freshman applicants.</p>

<p>Both of the above are the case at James Madison University in VA where I coordinate the MT program. As a result, this year we will not hold auditions for transfer students until early April. This will guarantee that all transfers we see audition have applied to the university already (March 15 is the application deadline for transfers), and make it so transfer applicant can receive an answer within a month or so of their audition rather than having to wait from the January audition until mid-May (or later) to find out if they have been accepted to the concentration. </p>

<p>This is how we consider transfer applicants at JMU. Contact each of the schools you are interested in directly. You may find as many different answers to your question as schools.</p>

<p>Also -- use the search function on the top of the forum to find discussions on transfer student MT admissions. </p>

<p>Good Luck! :)</p>

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<p>Ken6038:</p>

<p>Thanks for finding my post. I spent a half hour looking for it the other night, and couldn't find it. Ah, senility... ;)</p>

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<p>I think the math here is very flawed. Doctor John's re-post said </p>

<p>"CCM, CMU and Tisch report that they audition between 700-1000 students. But that doesn't mean that they collectively see 3000 students. With cross-applications, it's probably more like 1500. My guess is that the 30 schools are seeing around 1800 students total for their 600 spaces. 600/1800 = 1/3. Not bad odds.</p>

<p>The above sentence says that 3 schools are seeing 1500 students but the other 27 are seeing 300 (that's only 11 per school).</p>

<p>Forget the big schools and girl/ boy ratio for a moment and lets just do some simple math. You said there are 122 schools so lets just estimate conservatively that there are 100 different applicants (throw out the cross over estimate) for each school. Assume there are 122 schools * 100 different applicants which is 12,200 applicants. Assuming there are 20 spots (which I think is a little high) then there are 2440 acceptances. So the percentage is 2440/ 12,200 which is a 20 percent hit rate.</p>

<p>This is why selecting some non audition schools is so important.</p>