<p>Rather than applying ED to Ithaca you can audition at Ithaca on December 11. That’s their earliest audition date. Ithaca generally rolls their admissions or at least that date so you would get an answer fairly early. As others have said Ithaca is not cheap. Figure on a COA $240K by the time you graduate. Compare that with Crane or Fredonia which has a COA of $76K over 4 years.</p>
<p>Sandrasings – you mention in you OP that you are interested in Music Ed/ VP programs. Are you considering the music ed degree to be a fallback option to pursuing a professional performance career? Are you passionate about teaching, but also want to continue to train for performance… hoping to combine high level performance opportunities w/ teaching K-12 music? Posters here may be able to guide you more specifically if they more fully understand your goals post graduation from college :).</p>
<p>Lorelei2702: Thank you for you’re insight. However, i find it vaguely insulting that you believe i am not telling the truth. My 93 year old instructor had a recital last year at a local art museum. The recital featured 4 sets of music, including two pieces that a composer friend had created for her. It lasted about 1 and a half to 2 hours. I don’t think you’re wrong in suggesting her voice would be deteriorating, because, frankly, it is. However, it seems to me that you forget that the human voice and ability is not something that can be writen in a book and last forever as set rules. Everyone is different and everyone has their own abilities later in life. My teacher is fortunate enough to still have some working ability in her vocal chords. Please for give me if i sound harsh or unappreciative, because that is not the case.
Thank you for you’re insight on the mozart and the mendolssohn pieces. Due to your advice i will not be performing them in my audition. However, as of right now, i plan to use Gretchen at the spinning wheel. It seems to fit my voice, and until my own allustrious teacher says otherwise, i will consider it in my repertiore.
As you said, i am very close to my instructor. She is considered the premiere instructor in upstate and central new york. High school teachers, college professors, and performers alike hold her with the heighest regard.</p>
<p>KatMT: I enjoy performing greatly, what singer or instrumentalist doesn’t? However, i do have a desire to share what i’ve learned and will learn with others. Like you said, i hope to combine my degree in performance with teaching k-12 (though, preferably at the high school level). Regardless, i want music to be in my life always. I excell in other areas, however, music is the only subject that i find compelling, and challenging. it is my passion.</p>
<p>Sopranomom92: thanks a whole lot, i deffiantly think i’m going to do that.</p>
<p>Sagiter: i was appling ed to ithaca because i heard it increased your chances of getting in. Is this not the case?</p>
<p>A note: My older brother went to ithaca on an unrelated majior, and my mom happens to also be an alumni. We are aware of the finicial costs, and, as i said, although i am by no means insanely rich, my family feels no need to interfer with my schooling based on price alone. I go to a smaller high school with a lot of generous scholarships: most of which i am eligibile for.</p>
<p>thank you flute, i just read yours. how excitng for your daughter!</p>
<p>I do not disbelieve anything you say, Sandra. Mature artists may have something to say artistically, but their bodies will not be capable of meeting the demands of technical and artistic expression into old age. Instrumentalists are less hampered by the failings of an instrument, though their strength and agility will lose expertise. No professional singer I know would continue to perform in public with a diminution of artistic impact. They retire from public performance. This is not to say they could not get through a song or two, or even a role, but it would not be at a standard they would find acceptable. A few singers have had season after season of final tours, and their reputations have always been sullied in the process and their judgment questioned. Re your statement: "However, it seems to me that you forget that the human voice and ability is not something that can be writen in a book and last forever as set rules. Everyone is different and everyone has their own abilities later in life. My teacher is fortunate enough to still have some working ability in her vocal chords. " Unfortunately for all of us it is an absolute truth that bodies fail and abilities deteriorate. </p>
<p>More to the point, you need to expand your critical audience further…do look into trial lessons with teachers at schools which interest you. Ask for feedback, and listen to what you are told with an open mind. Your great trust in your teacher is a tremendous asset…you are clearly respectful of what she has given you…these are important qualities in a successful voice student/teacher relationship.</p>
<p>Thank you Lorelei2702, again, for your eloquent response. I look forward to attending theese trial lessons, as i am sure they will give great information and opinion into what i am going to do.</p>
<p>I must ask you though, because i do respect and admire your opinions, what you, if you were my teacher, might suggest as songs to sing in accordance with Ithaca’s requirements. I know you haven’t heard me sing personally, but what might you offer for a 17 year old soprano with backgrounds similiar to myself?</p>
<p>A couple of suggestions: Your list has good things on it: Marcello is great piece, Quilter is fine, Schubert has other Lied…in contrast might be “Nacht und Traume”, Handel for aria…something with a nice melody, an ABA form, return of melody with some ornamentation. I have not heard you sing, and it is difficult to make specific recommendations. If you have a recording and send it via PM, I will be glad to listen to it.</p>
<p>Lorelei2702, ill send to you as quickly as possibile. but be weary; the only recording device i have readily available is a cellphone recorder. i appreciate youre help greatly.</p>
<p>Sandrasings…there are a number of threads here that discuss music education options. Hopefully someone else will post those links for you or you can do a search for them. If you are instate for NY, there are some good and inexpensive options for you and those have already been posted. If you are looking for private schools with music education/performance options, there are also lots of those. I would encourage you to look at additional schools in addition to Ithaca. Ithaca is a GREAT school…don’t get me wrong…but it’s not the only music performance/education school in the area. As a talented soprano, you might garner performance aid at other schools too…and perhaps MORE than at Ithaca. Also, Ithaca is sort of out ther location wise. You might want to look at a more urban environment where you will have more opportunity as a performance major to hear first class performing AND have the opportunity to sing outside of your college experience.</p>
<p>Have you done any music programs that are outside of NY state? This might be something to consider although if you are a senior, it’s too late for this summer. My kids both found out their true relative talent when they went to summer festivals/programs that drew international students (BUTI for example). Both have terrific applied teachers here at home, but these programs also gave them another person’s perspective in teaching and learning. This was important in the big scheme of things for them. </p>
<p>I would urge you to have a trial lesson with a teacher at Ithaca. You may find that you love that person’s style of teaching (and they love you too)…or you may find that this is NOT to your liking. I agree with others…selecting a music performance program is ALL about the applied teacher and not about the college name itself. You gotta mesh with the applied teacher with whom you will spend a LOT more hours than with any other person.</p>
<p>Another thing I would suggest (you didn’t ask…but here goes anyway)…invest in a good recording device. YOU need to hear yourself and be able to self monitor and correct. You can’t do this with your cell phone. I’m surprised that your teacher hasn’t had you listening to yourself as you practice…maybe <em>I</em> am old fashioned, but my voice teachers (and my kids’ instrumental teachers) had me doing so from very early on…Just my opinion.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/815202-vocal-perfomance-music-ed-double-major.html?highlight=music+ed[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/815202-vocal-perfomance-music-ed-double-major.html?highlight=music+ed</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/537916-pros-cons-large-vs-small-univ-music-ed-vocal-performance.html?highlight=music+ed[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/537916-pros-cons-large-vs-small-univ-music-ed-vocal-performance.html?highlight=music+ed</a>
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/442759-music-education-major-trying-out-vocal-dilemma.html?highlight=music+education[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/442759-music-education-major-trying-out-vocal-dilemma.html?highlight=music+education</a></p>
<p>As thump suggests, these are but a sampling; there are about three pages of titled threads each for “music ed” and “music education”. The methodology I use for searching is here <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/892168-search-tips-other-insights.html</a></p>
<p>Thank you all for all your help and assistance. it’s greatly appreciated…
the links offered another realm of insight, violadad. thanks for that</p>
<p>In regards to recording… I have been recorded before…in fact everytime i have a recital i am recorded and burnt onto a cd. But as for everyday lessons and scenerios, i rely on my own ear.</p>
<p>I plan on applying ED to Ithaca, but, i don’t neglect i need to apply else where. I have a former teacher/mentor who as an Eastman alumni herself, has convinced me to apply there, along with SUNY potsdam and fredonia. Nazareth is a school on my list along with Syracuse.</p>
<p>I’ll just toss in here that I would strongly suggest that you at least audition at a few other schools. When auditions are involved nothing is ever a lock and it sounds like your eggs all reside in one basket. At least look into some other schools to confirm that Ithaca is where you want to be. My D attends Eastman as a VP/Ed dual major. So long as she completes her coursework within four years, she gets her 9th semester free to complete her student teaching.</p>
<p>We are visiting NY schools with our son soon. We only have time to visit one of the SUNY schools mentioned in this discussion. He is a tenor, who plans to major in VP. Does anyone have a recommendation for SUNY Fredonia or SUNY Potsdam (Crane)</p>
<p>To Sandra: It seems like this may have been addressed before - I can’t remember. But if you apply ED to a school, do you audition early, too? Or do you have to accept the admission even if you later don’t get admitted to the music program?</p>
<p>If you are at all thinking you might like to try your chances at any other school, don’t apply ED anywhere, because if you are accepted, you are required to withdraw all other applications. If you mean that you will apply to other schools in case Ithaca doesn’t accept you, then that’s appropriate.</p>
<p>Sandra-
A couple of random thoughts to add to the mix:</p>
<p>-I would listen to Lorelei and some of the others on here, they knew a great deal about vocal technique and programs, and in my experience when they say something it is worth listening to. </p>
<p>-I also heartily agree with others, get some feedback outside your principal teacher, it is really important. Teachers, all teachers, have their own particular biases/ways of doing things, and there are cases (at least in instrumental music) where it can hurt you on an audition, if the way the teacher teaches you doesn’t match what the auditioners teach (this varies, there is no ironclad rule on that, but still). I read not too long ago about a young performer who was being taught on the violin by a teacher who was teaching in the ‘old russian tradition’, and he had a lot of trouble with competitions and auditions because the style was very different then the way most teachers teach these days. Outside feedback is important because you get to gauge how you are playing in other people’s eyes. </p>
<p>-My other thought is to be very careful about using competitions as a basis for judging how well your abilities play off against others. There is a common perception out there that if you got to competitions and win them, or score high marks, that this is the road to success (fair warning, I am talking about in instrumental music, it may be different in vocal competitions, others could answer that better). Some competitions draw more high level students then others, for example, and competitions also have other factors in them in my experience (like regional biases, for example) that can change how the winner is chosen. And there are plenty of high level musicians who never won a competition out there (Yo Yo ma claims the few competitions he entered, he finished dead last) and others who never even bothered, and a few who one one major competition (such as Perlman with the Levintritt) that helped them with their career. I have also seen a lot of kids who have won fairly major competitions on instruments, who think their fate is sealed, whom I am pretty sure wouldn’t get into a high level program. </p>
<p>Similarly, people often talk about all region and all state as proof of how good a student is, and that similarly has problems. Generally all region or all state does mean a student has achieved a certain level of excellence, but it varies depending on where someone lives, and other competing programs. In places where there are fewer musical offerings, you will see a lot of the best locally in there, but in other places, it doesn’t work like that, so it is hard to judge what that means, and it is wise to take that with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>-This all relates to what someone calls the big fish in the small sea syndrome (and I am not saying this applies to yourself, obviously, I don’t know nor do I want to really).Kids who are somewhat talented often grow up with people, including local teachers, hearing how great they are, they are the best, and then when they get to a place where they see the ‘big leagues’, they find out quickly their perception isn’t reality. What serious music students tend to learn is that as good as they are, there are generally a lot of others out there as good or better then themselves,and it always pays to be realistic and realize that. It is why seeing other teachers and if possible, other students is so important, you start realizing what is out there (likewise, you also learn that some kids in high level programs/music schools, when you see them play, you realize not everyone, even in the best programs, are necessarily all that great:). </p>
<p>-In terms of using a recorder, I highly recommend you get yourself a digital recorder. Even though some of the smartphones have interesting video and audio capability, a stand alone recorder is much better, I can promise you that. There have been several threads on here about that, if you do a search on ‘recorder’ you will find the threads. They aren’t so expensive, and many of them have incredible recording capability for the money (my son uses the Zoom H2, which last I checked was running under 150 dollars, there are other brands that are cheaper that are supposed to be good as way. </p>
<p>And while it is important to build up your listening, your ‘ear’, a recorder is still a must have IMO, and here is why. When you listen to yourself as you re singing, you cannot be totally objective, even the best musicians will tell you this. There is always a certain extent from what I can tell that when someone listens to themselves play, they ‘hear’ not what is coming out, but what they want it to sound like. It varies from person to person, but it also means that using ear alone is limiting (and if you are curious, pick up Daniel Levitin’s book “Your Brain on Music” about how the brain shapes our listening of music, fantastic book). When you listen to a playback, you listen differently, it is like listening to someone else performing it, and you therefore can be more objective. Plus to pick up the little details, that make so much difference, you need to replay it several times. </p>
<p>Just some thoughts on what I have learned, hope it helps.</p>
<p>Dear SandraSings … good luck to you. Listen to all this advice, as I believe you are doing, and then update us on your progress. Your attitude is wonderful and confident, but at the same time you still seem open-minded. You do still have several words incorrectly spelled, so you should have someone double check any resumes or applications you fill out. (I before E except after C … etc.) Please keep us all posted!</p>
<p>Hey, Sandra…curiosity’s gotten the better of me as you were so polite last summer - have you made a decision yet?</p>
<p>God bless,</p>
<p>O T</p>