Avoid U. Chicago

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Chicago ✅
21

<p>Chicago Dad: UofC accepts more than twice as many people as will attend because of yield. I don't know their yield. They may accept three times as many. Therefore, we can't assume the ones accepting are necessarily richer or less gifted than your D.</p>

<p>You can ask them to go over the figures and tell them their offer didn't meet other comparable schools. They may discover a mistake in their calculations or really want your D and "find" a mistake.</p>

<p>This would only be sensible if your D really wanted to attend. </p>

<p>It sounds like you've soured on the school, so that's not likely, but reconsideration is part of the process.</p>

22

<p>"I filed an accurate and financial statement. What would be the basis of my appeal?"</p>

<p>Ask them to review it - say that you are puzzled that it was that far off from the institutional methodology estimator, and you do not understand what is going on. Keep venting here until you're calm, though. All this financial aid stuff is very vexing.</p>

23

<p>
[quote]
why is it "pretentious" for me to to assume that if U. Chicago admitted my daughter first and then, when she declined the offer, offered her position to someone else SECOND this second person was less qualified in U. Chicago's eyes?

[/quote]

Because they haven't use their waitlists recently. All Chicago students over at least the last two years were admitted before April. To assume that lower qualified, richer kids sneak their way in after people decline their spots is just not factually accurate.</p>

24

<p>To the OP: I sympathize with your predicament. It sounds like your daughter really wanted to attend and you feel you can't afford to make it possible. I'm curious about your calculations: 4-year COA is about $176K, you have about $70K in a 529 (all for this child? or are there sibs?) leaving about $100K to cover over 4 years. Assume your daughter can earn $5-6K per year (don't know if this is a reasonable figure?), that leaves about $80K for you to cover over 4 years. Or $20K / yr. On an income of $109K, does that seem out of the question to you? I'm asking partly because we have a not-dissimilar income, 3 children and have often paid alot more than $20K per year in tuition...</p>

<p>Perhaps you could negotiate a better financial-aid deal (merit aid, really) by demonstrating to UofC that your daughter has better financial options at peer institutions -- where else did she get significant f.a.?</p>

25

<p>Like others, I sympathize with the frustration. But I think the criticism is a bit unfair. A household income at about 90K places one in the top 20th percentile of US incomes. I think most schools are probably focusing their financial aid on the other 80 percent. It would be great if more schools had more resources to provide more financial aid. But if resources are not unlimited, I think a college can reasonably decide to focus its efforts on improving affordability for the bottom 80 percent.</p>

26

<p>^ It doesn't quite work out like that in real life. </p>

<p>While "top 20th percentile" may sound really well off, no one who makes 90k a year can possibly afford Chicago without financial aid. What would they have after taxes and a 53k cost of attendance? </p>

<p>The criticism is absolutely fair. No 109k household can reasonably be expected to pay without grants.</p>

27

<p>OP, I'm so sorry to hear that your daughter is in that situation as well and I hope she enjoys whatever school she decides to attend. I think that regardless of the relative size of Chicago's endowment or its aid for those with very small incomes, future applicants just need to keep in mind that many in the middle-income bracket struggle more with Chicago finaid than other schools. I wish someone had told me that before I fell in love with the school.</p>

28

<p>I'm sorry that finances aren't working the way they can, but I can assure you that the U of C experience is quite easily replicable for a fraction of the cost. Here's how:</p>

<p>1) Check out de Saussure, Robinson Crusoe, and Karl Marx from the library. That's basically my reading list for classes right now. Cost: $0.</p>

<p>2) Find cool professors who are interesting, intellectual people and who care about their work and the future of young people. There are more than a few posters on these boards who work in a university setting, and at least one I can think of who teaches at a decent, non-elite state school. She seems like an incredible person, and I would love taking classes with her.</p>

<p>3) Find people who share in your interests, either through classes or through other social means.</p>

<p>**</p>

<p>I am blessed-- truly blessed-- to be able to afford and attend the U of C, but even with its cost, I'm suspicious as to how much it's "worth" it. The only thing concrete that I really see myself buying is the opportunity to immerse myself in an extraordinarily high concentration of really, really, really smart people. For somebody who didn't really feel right in high school, this peace of mind and opportunity to get out, explore, and be social is a gift to me.</p>

<p>If I were just going for the education, though, I think I would have done pretty well on my own, and with a little bit of guidance from supporters along the way.</p>

<p>I also think about the most influential cultural and personal figures in my life... most of them accrued great wisdom and senses of the world without attending schools that are anywhere near elite.</p>

29

<p>unalove: What a lovely post. I can second your sentiments. My students read original works by Marx at community college but they do not have the social group you describe.</p>

30

<p>I have come to the conclusion that there is little consistency from school to school when it comes to financial aid offers. Our annual family income is about $115,000 and our EFC was about $22,000. My daughter is a typical CC overachiever. Her financial aid offers ranged from $0 at UConn (our state public) to all loans at Cornell to more than 1/2 the cost of attendance at Kansas State University. Go figure.</p>

31

<p>It would be helpful to know whether any other school offered the Original Poster's (OP's) daughter any need based aid and, if so, how much? According to the Ultimate College Guide published by USNews, Chicago is the #12 best national university for awarding financial aid. The average award was $30,568 per student receiving financial aid from Chicago for 2006 through 2007. About 46% of the students received financial aid that year at the University of Chicago. Additionally, Chicago awarded 11% of the students attending during 2006-2007 merit aid averaging $11,311 per student. Also, what was the OP's EFC (expected family contribution) ? Although not all students applying for financial aid at Chicago receive aid, 100% of those qualifying for aid at Chicago got 100% of their need met during the 2006-2007 school year.</p>

32

<p>Financing college is a challenge, both for families and for institutions. I have seen it from both perspectives. My family was in the bottom 20%, and I was the fortunate beneficiary of very generous need based aid and was able to attend several highly selective private schools for college and grad school. My wife's family was in the top 20%, did not qualify for any need based aid, and therefore attended a wonderful public school in the midwest. We had different experiences, but both loved our college years and received excellent educations.</p>

<p>The top 20% may find itself with somewhat fewer options for need based aid. But that group in American society has had many other advantages along the way. And that group has a much better opportunity to make choices along the way to accumulate assets to fund college. Remember, it is not about paying for college out of current income. That option might exist for the top 1% but not for the other 99%. It is about making hard choices for the 18 years that parents have to save for college.</p>

<p>And when the first college bill arrives, each family has to make an individual choice about how much they value education, and how much they value an education from a particular institution. Most families in the top 20% can close whatever gap remains with loans. That is definitely a burden for those families. But at least they have the choice. </p>

<p>Institutions also need to make choices. A few (HYP and a few others) has so much money that they can basically make their educations available for free. All the other schools have to make choices about how to use grants, loans, and other aid to make their schools as affordable as possible to as many as possible. It is hard to make the system perfect. And the system may not be consistent in every instances. Schools make different choices on how much of certain assets they deem to be available to fund college. But overall, the system works reasonable well.</p>

<p>Finally, American families have the good fortune to have a wide range of wonderful options for college. In many countries, every single student is trying to attend what everyone acknowledges to be "the best" school. Those who do not go to that single school are forever at a disadvantage. In the United States, there are so many more choices. There is a great and affordable education out there for everyone.</p>

33

<p>Somedumb, I didn't realize that U. Chicago hasn't used its wait lists recently (as you claim). Why puts applicants on them, then? My original point remains: U. Chicago admits three students for every one that enrolls. By refusing to offer any needs-based assistance to people in my income bracket it obviously, although not overtly, substitutes richer kids for poorer ones. The swap isn't transparently visible or honestly acknowledged, but it is nonetheless there.</p>

<p>For those who asked about other offers my daughter received: She got needs-based grants from a top liberal arts college of about $20K, leaving us with about $25K a year to find. (She would also have to work in the summer and take out loans.) She received similar offers from other places too.</p>

<p>Some of you have suggested that financial aid at Chicago is arbitrary and capriciously allocated. Maybe so. But this doesn't make me feel any better about the school. And, how can they make a "mistake." Is the information on the financial statement that complicated?</p>

<p>To those that suggested that the problem lies with me because I should have saved more: I am in the same situation as many other professionals (actually I am a College Prof.) where, although I now have a decent salary, until, quite recently, I was making only about $45K a years, and my wife was making $11K. It's difficult to save more than about $10K a year for two kids under those circumstances. Ten years after I got my Ph.D I was still in debt (and I have always been a saver, rather than a spender).</p>

<p>Again, I think private universities should be able to charge whatever they think they can get away with (even though all private universities receive massive subsidies from taxpayers such as me). However, how about a little honesty and transparency? How about some attention to ethical considerations?</p>

<p>My daughter very much wanted to go to U. Chicago. She did her homework, learned about the school, put together her application and was accepted (so I assume) on her merits. After waiting two weeks we get a letter that informs us she needn't have bothered in the first place. At no time were we told that U. Chicago would ask us to make a financial contribution $80 - $100K more than comparable schools. Why not? U Chicago just enjoys surprising people?</p>

<p>Maybe U. Chicago just doesn't care or maybe it accepts three times as many students as it wants because it knows that a small minority can be maneuvered into a situation where they will reluctantly agree to be price-gouged. According to Somedumb, U. Chicago routinely puts applicants on the wait list when there is no chance of them ever being taken off it. Is this appropriate? Would it not be fairer and kinder just to reject them? Why pretend that applicants on the wait list are in a different category than those who HAVE been rejected?</p>

<p>As I say, it all leaves a bad taste in the mouth.</p>

<p>Don't bother to apply to U. Chicago if you are highly meritorious and do not come from a wealthy family. You would be much better off focusing your attention and your allegiance elsewhere.</p>

34

<p>Chicago_Dad, I am the Mom of a first year student. We have similar income to yours (I am also a college professor) and even less in savings. S got only a "token" amount of financial aid. We will undoubtedly have to take out a second mortgage to refinance his college education. We are not surprised, not upset. We recognize that we are still among the upper income statistically in this country. So far, we have no doubt that we made the right choice for our S. He understands the sacrifices we made/will make to have him attend his dream college and is working very hard to maximize the opportunities at UC. Of course, every family has to make choices about their financial priorities. IMHO, "Avoid U. Chicago" sounds like a pretty childish response to your frustration with Chicago's FA office. I think that prior posters have been rather polite. You have a choice in the matter to refocus your financial priorities and lifestyle. Those with significantly lower income do not.</p>

35

<p>Chicago_Dad, I think you're attributing intent to the University of Chicago where there isn't any. The University creates or does not create a waitlist ostensibly based on what they predict their yield to be -- that is, on how many admitted students they predict will accept their offer of admission. If this prediction is inaccurate, and the class is 'filled' by the pool of admitted students, then the waitlist goes unused. The University is not responsible as such an inaccuracy is due to human choice. All waitlists are gambles, and the chance that someone is accepted off a waitlist is often small, but it changes each year.</p>

<p>Furthermore, members of waitlist are not less-qualified than accepted students: the waitlist holds students who would have been accepted had the maximum number of accepted students not been exceeded. Therefore, your daughter's place will not go to "a lower rated student who almost certainly will come from a family with a lot more money." You have no factual basis to make that claim.</p>

<p>The University of Chicago accepts three times as many students as it can take because its yield is generally 30%, so only one-third of that pool will accept places at the school.</p>

<p>None of this is to say that the University's financial aid decisions are fair or consistent -- they aren't, and I and my family are making significant sacrifices so I can attend the school -- but some of your criticisms ignore the facts.</p>

36

<p>My cousin is a college professor with an endowed chair whose son recently attended & graduated the University of Chicago with 100% financial aid.</p>

37

<p>Did the cousin's school and UChicago have a reciprocal tuition agreement? We have friends who are professors and their kids are able to attend some colleges with tuition breaks due to cross-school agreements. That isn't the same as need-based FA.</p>

38

<p>ChicagoD: You ignored my post that stated we received very generous financial aid (I am also a college prof so I am employed with income.) I still insist you cannot generalize from one case. (Nor can I, but I am not stating their aid is good; I am simply reporting a contrasting experience.)</p>

<p>I still think that if your D really wants to attend you can appeal your offer.</p>

<p>However, it sounds as if she has a good option. Good luck to her.</p>

<p>And as I said before, my S did not matriculate there, so I have no horse in this race.</p>

39

<p>SCOMathmo, the waitlist issue was introduced by someone else. It's not relevant to my situation because my daughter was not waitlisted. Another poster claimed that U. Chicago does not dip into its wait list. (I commented on that -- maybe I shouldn't have.) U. Chicago does admit three times more students than it enrolls. That's kinda unusual for an "elite university."</p>

<p>You claim "members of waitlist are not less-qualified than accepted students." I really don't know how to respond to this. Maybe it is true and maybe you also believe that students who are rejected are not less-qualified than accepted students.</p>

<p>rap_mom. Good luck with that second mortgage. We could have done this too, and we also could have cashed in some of our pension money. Actually, we could have just sold the house (at a bit of a loss now) and moved into a rented apartment. All of those freedoms were available to us.</p>

<p>With respect, you are royally missing the point. U. Chicago is entitled to charge whatever it wants. It's up to me to accept or reject the deal. I'm sure your son is working hard and will get a good education, and I would not presume to tell you what to do with your money.</p>

<p>I think if you will read my posts again carefully you will understand more clearly why I am suggesting that people in my family's situation avoid U. Chicago.</p>

<p>mythmom, I didn't mean to ignore you. I think we have established (1) that U. Chicago is inconsistent and possibly capricious in awarding needs-based aid and (2) that several other posters have experienced the same problem that I had. I don't think that I am demanding or expecting that people "generalize from one case." In fact, it seems evident that anyone who wants to "generalize" about what U. Chicago is likely to do could have a problem.</p>

40

<p>But we are indeed:</p>

<p>"people in my family's situation" and we DON'T think it's appropriate to advise such folks to "avoid U. Chicago." Make a choice (sounds like you have already) and stop complaining. If you have home equity, U Chicago (not true for all schools who may weigh such assets differently) does not think it is unreasonable to expect you to borrow against it.</p>

<p>You HAVE a choice, but lower income people do not.</p>