<p>I have to admit, being more than a little upset with UChicago FA right now. I have a daughter that is a third year right now. We were given no FA and we didn't expect any. It was her decision to take out the loans to make up the difference in our state school's tuition and UChicago's. With regard to the loans, students can decide to take them on themselves. I did my husband did. However when I think of the contrast between my daughter and her roommate I do get mad. Her roommate receives close to 100% FA because her parents make less and will graduate debt free, on the other hand my daughter will graduate over 70,000 in debt. This year my son is an admitted student and I was shocked that Uchicago offered us 0 FA. I am appealing. Uchicago was the only school even among other private selective schools to give us nothing.</p>
<p>"It was her decision to take out the loans to make up the difference in our state school's tuition and UChicago's. "</p>
<p>All families are different; some parents can manage their EFC's, others can't. I do hope that your daughter is going into a lucrative field (or has reasonable expections from relatives), however, as 70k is a huge sum to manage for a young person just starting out.</p>
<p>These are issues that never go away-- note the hand-wringing over medical students flocking to so-called "soft" specialties over primary care in order to make a dent in their mind-boggling level of debt. I regularly hear about young MDs (well into their 30's) still moonlighting to try to pay off their college/med school debt before they hit 40. Many don't make it.</p>
<p>Chicago_Dad --- FWIW, I was in your daughter's position many years ago. I fell in love with UChicago, knocked myself out to get accepted, <em>loved</em> my prospie weekend -- and received a minimal financial aid offer. And couldn't go. I ended up at a good state university, my last choice -- my safety, no less. Was I disappointed? Terribly, at the time it was easily the worst experience of my life . Of course, I dealt with it -- ended up loving college and now have a fulfilling career --- and I cannot imagine that I would be in a better position had I attended UChicago. Frankly, since I chose a career path that is not very, um, remunerative, perhaps going to UChicago and assuming a huge debt load would have ended up limiting my eventual career choices. I have no regrets or bitterness, except I wish I could have skipped that tough experience.</p>
<p>To tack on a somewhat ironic end to a painful episode, I never "gave up" on UChicago -- even suggested it to my oldest as a potential good match as she started her college hunt. She fell for the place just like I had -- was accepted EA and is headed off for her prospie weekend on the 17th. She will be a member of the class of 2012, so I guess things have come full circle. And she didn't even apply for aid as I knew the score. She's lucky that we can manage this (barely...), but I remembered my experience all too well and was very committed to at least helping her avoid a similar situation. Usual parental goal ---- righting the "wrongs" of your childhood.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds ambitious and hard-working, it was non-trivial to be accepted to UChicago this year, clearly the pieces are in place for her to excel wherever she goes, and that is by far the most important thing. But this will sting for a bit...</p>
<p>Hang in there,</p>
<p>JT</p>
<p>My daughter has no reasonable expectations from any relative. However, she is an econ major/prelaw. Many of her friends have received ibanking jobs that require MBA's from schools other than the economic powerhouses. Also the salary differnce of first year attorneys coming form chicago vs. most state schools makes up the debt difference. I know everyone will argue you can get into a top law school from any school, but you better be at the very top of your class if this is your goal.</p>
<p>My question about this is: how possible is it to know in advance the FA policies at different schools? For example, if some schools in fact expect you to use your home equity, and others don't, how knowable is that? All the schools will tell you that they have their own unique FA criteria--can you get the details? What's the best way to avoid the kind of unpleasant surprise the OP and others have described?</p>
<p>Hunt, great question. I don't know the answer, unfortunately. Last year, I learned from CC that UChicago was part of the 568 Presidents' Group,
568</a> Presidents' Group: 568group.org
a consortium of prestigious colleges with needs-blinds admission policies, in which the goal is to develop a consensus standard designed to "eliminate much of the variance in need analysis results that has been experienced in recent years." Well, although UChicago is indeed part of that group, it looks like the Presidents' Group (and/or UChicago's FA office) still has some work to do, in order to meet that goal.</p>
<p>toshima-
"However, she is an econ major/prelaw. Many of her friends have received ibanking jobs that require MBA's from schools other than the economic powerhouses. "</p>
<p>Ok - that should work - its a chance but a reasonable one. Best wishes to her and to you and your upcoming FA appeal!</p>
<p>At almost every information session I ever attended, there was a discussion of what information the Financial Aid office took into account. No formulas, ever, but usually there was a pretty straightforward discussion of the relevance of home equity, IRAs, etc.</p>
<p>I always assumed that if a school asked for the information, it thought it was relevant.</p>
<p>Post #68 is great. What about retirement accounts? Some families are relying on home equity & Social Security, while others have a million or two in a retirement account that may cause school financial aid folks to calculate a family's home equity as available funds. Disclosure: I am just raising the issue as I have very little knowledge of the financial aid field.</p>
<p>I don't understand why there is no income tax relief for higher level education expense something like a tax relief given to real estate interest and property tax payment. Education is the key ingredient for the future production capability of a nation. It generates a favorable social externality beyond the personal happiness. Market is failing here in America. I heard in Europe college education is free. In Asia many elite universities are national universities and the price is quite affordable. To pay $50,000 cash, you have to earn $71,429 (=$50,000 divided by 0.70). I assumed 30% as the federal and state income tax rate. The maximun $2,000 HOPE or lifetime learning education credit is a joke. America is losing competive edge against other countries.</p>
<p>"Market is failing here in America. I heard in Europe college education is free. In Asia many elite universities are national universities and the price is quite affordable."</p>
<p>If the market is failing here in America, how come so many students from Europe and Asia are trying to get into American universities, vs. the tiny number of Americans hoping to get a foreign degree?</p>
<p>Consumers' market choices show that American universities are tremendously desirable compared to the less expensive foreign ones. Apparently many students think that you get what you pay for.</p>
<p>Maybe, you are talking probably the top 1% wealthiest or government sponsored European or Asian students (for them the marginal price pain is small) coming to America. Or, some uniquely idiosyncratic consumer choice for American prestigious college degree.</p>
<p>Don't hide America's economic policy failure with such a weak evidence. The fact is in Europe higher level education family is subsidized while, in America, the middle income family (the backbone of our society) is punished in tax-wise for providing the top quality education to their beloved children just like when they spent money to buy alcohol or an expensive bag.</p>
<p>Siberian,</p>
<p>"I don't understand why there is no income tax relief for higher level education expense something like a tax relief given to real estate interest and property tax payment."</p>
<p>There is, but its capped at a measily $4000 deduction - not a tax credit (and you can't take the Hope credit AND the deduction in the same year). </p>
<p>As to why its like that, I certainly don't understand it either.</p>
<p>Siberian,</p>
<p>Higher education is heavily subsidized at state schools. Students pay less than half the actual cost of attending.</p>
<p>The situation chicago dad relates is why the honors colleges in our state universities are a popular choice for outstanding students whose families make between $100,000 and $250,000 a year. I don't think the u of c's awards are that different than most private institutions though except that since u of c's applicant are so outstanding most would get targeted (merit) aid from most institutions.</p>
<p>Maybe it's just the state I'm in, but my twin brother who is going to a state school is paying more than I am to go to U of C, and I could have gone in state for a whole $500 less. I don't see how state schools are cheaper. It seems, while twice as expensive, most private schools can give enough aid to make the price tag about the same as an in state school. That being said, UChicago was not the only school comparable to my state school's offer. Harvey-Mudd would have cost a couple thousand less than my state school.</p>
<p>On the other hand, it is very possible that my brother and I got fin aid packages that were the exception not the rule.</p>
<p>maybe you are correct but here in Arizona the state schools are a great bargain. They are under $13,000/yr and offer great academic awards for both instate and out-of-state students.</p>
<p>If GleasSpty is talking about Pennsylvania -- and I think I remember that's the relevant state -- the criticism is a fairly common one. Pennsylvania public colleges have a moderate sticker price, but generally terrible financial aid (with some exceptions for stars), so for many they wind up being expensive relative to other states' public colleges, and often expensive relative to private universities with good aid. Among my kids' friends, it was not uncommon for Penn to be cheaper than Penn State.</p>
<p>I'm from Ohio.</p>
<p>We had a similar experience as Chicago Dad. S accepted EA but not given aid. Appealed the decision and was given aid, but $5000 less than other prestigious university (which has an endowment that is smaller than Chicago) and Chicago requires S to take out more loans. After our initial rejection, we called and asked about the decision, because although we are mid to upper mid class, we have another in college and can't afford 50,000+ per year for S. One thing we were told was U/C expected us to borrow against our 401Ks. I don't know if this is their policy or was just what one person said, but it was very upsetting because no other school we dealt with required this and we won't be getting any pension. Our 401K is it. Also, I was upset that at junior days last year they announced they had just received 100 million donation for financial aid and told the parents not to worry, they assumed there would be more FA for students. But from what the articles say, they used that not to make more FA available to more students, but to make sure that if you earn less than 60,000, your kid will go to U/C completely free -- no loans, nothing -- and you are not asked to give up your pension in exchange for the FA. If you earn 60,000 to 75,000, your loans are cut back significantly. The</a> University of Chicago Magazine
Yet others are told to borrow against their only source of retirement income and their kids are given loans. Makes you wonder.</p>