Avoiding Inheritance Squabbles

Parents Forum Parent Cafe
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I also never planned to inherit anything and don’t count it in my retirement planning. I am also in the mindset of “anything is gravy”.

My parents aren’t loaded and there are 6 kids.

I think my spouse is counting a bit on an inheritance from my in-laws in our retirement planning.

They do have more than mine and there are only 2 kids. And there is some old family trust that ends at my spouse’s generation (not huge and who knows, my in-laws may need it at some point). I say they could use up all/a lot of their assets if they got a long term illness (he counters that they have LTC insurance, but I’ve heard that it isn’t as great as you would hope).

My in-laws and I love each other and get along great, but if my spouse dies before my in-laws, I am not counting on a dime from them. Spouse thinks it their half would go to me when in-laws die, but it could be set up so it goes directly to our kids (which I would not be upset about).

So who knows how it will all play out. We could end up with half a million dollars or half a dollar!

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Fallgirl- hugs to you for being so gracious about what is undoubtedly a painful situation.

And if it helps- hindsight is 20/20. Even a savvy trusts and estates lawyer can’t always keep up with changes in the tax code (you’d think that would be job 1- but it’s not) AND they are not always investment professionals-- or understand sound portfolio management to any degree of expertise. I see advertisements for seminars targeted at legal professionals for REALLY basic, easy, personal financial planning stuff. So when clients come in- they may be getting good legal advice, but if the lawyers don’t understand every asset in the estate, what it is, how it works, what could happen down the road- it can get ugly pretty quickly after the fact.

Think about someone whose only asset is a brokerage account with 100 shares of Kodak stock, with a relatively high basis and is now trading in the 6’s, and 100 shares of Amazon with a very low basis. trading at 3200 or so, plus the splits. Just for the sake of argument of course- this would be an insane portfolio, but I know many people my age whose brokerage accounts are comprised of the stock of the company where one spouse works and the other, a “high growth” type asset like Amazon.

Parent leaves the Kodak to the kid who is a professional photographer, out of some sentimental impulse, the Amazon to the other kid. And yet there were years where Kodak and Amazon were trading in the same range, so it seemed logical (dumb but logical, not to include the value of a low basis in the inheritance).

It took me a few tries to find a lawyer to draw up new wills a few years ago. The ones who were great psychologists and had terrific experience and insights into family dynamics didn’t understand anything beyond “Stocks, bonds, IRA, 401K, how much is your house worth”. And the ones who understood what could happen to assets down the road-- how to best take advantage of the tax code, how to use life insurance for charitable purposes, how to divide assets which couldn’t be divided without selling (small business)-- seemed pretty clueless about family dynamics.

Hugs to you.

Kodak kid’s inheritance is almost worthless, Amazon kid gets a nice nest egg from dear old dad.

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I have to say that after reading through all these threads, I’m soooooo grateful for my brother and an easy division of the estate. I’m also thankful my dad didn’t try to do anything but make it 50/50 so there were no hard feelings anywhere.

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@FallGirl anything in the badly done estate plan that could be a helpful warning to others? Were beneficary relationships already such that this result is not a surprise? Bad selection for executor/trustee?

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I’m officially livid. We drove by “my” place and the place my nephew is supposed to inherit yesterday as it’s only 1 1/2 hours from where we are. Sis was out mowing the lawn in back. She never saw us, but I saw her. No limp or break in her rapid gait that one would expect from really rare side effects lasting 6 weeks or her stated inability to work at “any job” due to a knee injury from a workman’s comp issue years ago. (She’s been bilking that last one for years now, but it only shows when she has an audience.)

My nephew’s place actually looked relatively good from the outside. Dad had it a Hoarder’s mess complete with dozens of stacks of old pallets, other old stuff, and more. He’s cleaned it up. That’s actually part of the problem because sis says he had no right to do so. It’s her (and my) stuff. I told her and him I didn’t want my half. She’s adamant she wants it and he stole it (absolutely nothing of value - literally - 100s of decaying pallets and old broken things, and the old broken things appear to have been moved to the back instead of on the front lawn).

So… I politely texted her this morning. The following will be verbatim leaving out names:

Me: Were you able to get the stuff out of X’s or are they rescheduling?

Her: Can’t even touch the farm property. No letter in writing

Me: I thought you emailed me the letter? (She emailed me an emailed letter - as did my nephew.)

Her: Nope

Me: What did you email me then?

Her: Waiting on response from the attorney he is either fixing his lies or he is fired

Me: What lies?

Her: Not getting into it

Me: Weird

Her: Nothing weird about X stealing everything and not following ny state law

Also her: Nothing weird about crooked attorneys up here in Y county

End of conversation. What I’d want to text next would get me on her naughty list and then I’d have no insight whatsoever.

It’s incredibly frustrating, but nothing new. Dad died in August of 2018 and it’s a very small estate value-wise. How long can she abuse the system? She’s gotten away with the workman’s comp one for longer. She can mow lawns, rototill gardens, move heavy bags of pellets for her wood stove, and help me carry tons of stuff when we had my mom’s estate sale, but not work “any” job due to her knee injury. Her doctor said so. And now with this she just does whatever she wants to running the money out so he won’t be able to inherit his place.

I really hope the judge can see it for what it is and can/will do something about it.

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Yes.

  1. Be very clear who the trustee is. I strongly suggest an independent third party (bank or financial institution) rather than a family member.

  2. Beneficiaries over the age of (30 or 35) should be trusted to handle their own trusts (unless there is a very compelling reason, such as a person who cannot be independent).

  3. Putting property in a trust which will be divided into sub-trusts is not a good idea. If it’s necessary, the pieces of property should be put in separate sub trusts.

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My husband’s company will investigate certain workmen compensation situations.

I wish you had a long range camera to take pictures to send to the judge :wink:

I understand that people have certain undiagnosed mental and physical conditions. But to keep your son from his rightful ownership is mind boggling

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Wanna see the lovely place I inherited? It looks pretty much the same inside as out.

Dads house 052221
Dads house 0522214032×3024 2.1 MB

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And this is the place my nephew should inherit. That whole section of mowed lawn was literally filled with stacks of pallets and old broken crud. He had the nerve to clean it up touching what wasn’t his. He didn’t start cleaning it up immediately after dad’s death. He gave it a good year or more first. He’s been told he can’t touch any of it legally - though I don’t know if that’s true or not TBH.

Dads farm 052221
Dads farm 0522214032×3024 1.5 MB

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Remind me … why doesn’t she want her son to inherit this house?

Family can be crazy.

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She claims dad promised the place to her and her son weaseled his way into dad’s heart just to get him to change the will.

Dad had previous wills. I know of at least two. Neither left the place to her. She came across five copies of his last will where he left everything to the Shriners and shredded them. Honestly, they shouldn’t have been around anyway, but now she says that wasn’t his previous will - she also shredded a different one that was and that will left the place to her with nothing to her son. She’s also now claiming my uncle knew about that one, but “he’s dead so he can’t tell what he knows.” My uncle and I talked relatively often including after dad’s death. He never mentioned any such other will. She claims he told her that he “only told me what I wanted to hear.”

Between the lines I’m gathering that her three successive lawyers have all told her she has no case for any other will, so she angrily told me long ago if she can’t have it, no one is going to have it. Her plan is to drain the estate of money forcing the places (both of them) to be sold off to pay dad’s debts which range from 40k to 60k pending which day you ask her. I know about the 40k. I’ve asked what the rest is and simply get told, “lots of stuff.” It may be lawyer bills for all I know.

The son has asked his lawyer to enforce her giving him the property and volunteered to take on the 40K loan as a mortgage (pay off loan, via getting mortgage). Sis assures me this isn’t possible legally. I have no idea if it is or isn’t.

The current problem is the “stuff” in the house/garage belongs to both my sister and me. My nephew has tried to get her to come get the stuff, but she always has some sort of excuse. This time was set up by the two lawyers and a judge, but she didn’t show. With it coming up on 3 years soon, it would be nice to see progress of some sort. Of dad’s stuff the only things she’s sold officially (that I know of) have been a bedspread and two guns. The two guns were to the same person within the last month or two.

She’s in no hurry and meanwhile living in my house rent free, but she is paying a minimal mortgage payment - likely from dad’s estate money. She’s told me I should be paying the mortgage but I refuse. I told her I’d have sold the house as soon as we could have in 2018 when I had an offer from her neighbor. He wanted to tear the place down. There’s no way I’m paying the mortgage and giving her a complete rent free place to live during all of this knowing I’m likely to get nothing in return. At least she’s spending her own inheritance too this way.

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Can’t the nephew just hire movers to move all the stuff to his mother’s place, and have them just drop it all on her front lawn?

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Did you take video of her moving the lawn as proof of worker compensation and other fraud?

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This is all getting too complicated for me. And some of it seems to potentially involve fraud and criminal behavior. I’m not a lawyer but it seems inappropriate if not illegal to shred documents.

Settling this seems long overdue and I hope you have a good lawyer yourself. Good luck.

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A quick read of this makes me really shake my head and I’m outraged on your behalf. First, I’m amazed the court hasn’t sorted all this out. Second , if the property was bequeathed in the will, title automatically vests in the beneficiary, subject to a few exceptions. Your sister has breached her fiduciary duties as executor seven ways to Sunday and should be removed ASAP. Her primary duties are preserve the value of the estate for the beneficiaries, distribute the estate to the beneficiaries per the will’s instructions, deal with the estate’s debts. If she’s physically or mentally incapable of performing her executor duties she needs to be replaced.

All that being said, the flip side is lawyers are expensive so the analysis has to include whether the cost of legally obtaining the property will exceed the value of the property itself. Your sister could be found liable for those attorneys fees if she’s been acting in bad faith (which it seems she has) but collecting is another matter.

So sorry your family is dealing with this! I hope you can at least find competent legal counsel as well as a decent judge to get this sorted.

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To add to VPA’s fine summary- the executor is also responsible for settling legitimate claims against the estate before distribution- which includes property taxes! Can you find out if she’s current on the property taxes? It would be a shame for your nephew to get stuck with land which has to be sold to settle up with the county/town…

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Automatic? How? Title can only be transferred by a filing in the real estate, not probate, records. Some probate matters are not even filed in the same county as the property is located. A title company is not going to go looking through probate records to find who really and truly has a right to the property. The court can give an order to change title and that can be filed in the real estate records, but automatic? I doubt it.

Also, courts are so far behind because of covid there is no way a court even cares that the sister didn’t show up to clean out the house. It is up to the attorneys to notify the court and keep things moving.

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Generally speaking, upon the death of the descendent, legal title to the real estate vests in the person(s) named in the will if there’s a specific bequest and the will has to be filed with the probate court if real estate is involved.

The transfer is automatic as in the beneficiary(ies) don’t need to do anything effectuate the legal transfer of title. The executor needs to file a deed filed in the real estate records that documents the transfer but the transfer technically happens upon the passing of the will maker, with possible exceptions such as needing to sell the property to satisfy estate debts. If the executor won’t do it then the court can compel them or perhaps issue an order that would evidence the transfer along with the death certificate. It’s been a while since I did title work but an executor can’t just “keep” the property if the will says it goes to someone else. If you buy a house and the seller gives you a deed. You legally own the house. The issue is giving notice to the rest of the world by recording the deed so the seller can’t sell it again to someone else, or put a mortgage on it etc…

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I wish, but apparently this is as illegal as kicking out a tenant the same way.

Unfortunately she was in the back and we could only drive by the front or she’d have noticed I was there. It’s a very small, one street, town. I did catch her in a still pic, but you can’t see her head, so unless you know it was her, it could be anyone. Had she been a couple steps further ahead or one step back I’d have had her whole picture. A birch tree was in the way.

Honestly, this is why I’ve backed out. It’s not worth it to us. I promised both mom and dad I’d look out for my nephew though. If he weren’t part of the picture I’d tell her she inherited her dream, so go live her life.

Between my nephew and his lawyer they’re on top of this. I believe he has tax money in a savings account - perhaps escrow - to cover it if needed.

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Honestly, This sounds like way too much aggravation and you say you don’t really need the money . If your nephew has enough resources to have a lawyer himself , I would let he and your sister work this out. It is admirable that you care about your nephew, but perhaps there are other ways to support him that do not involve getting in the middle of this mess?

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