BA in Comp Sci from the College?

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
1

<p>So I was poking around on the UVa comp sci website yesterday and noticed that they are now offering a BA in Comp Sci (it also carries the word 'interdisciplinary' a lot) through the College of Arts and Sciences. I read up on it and it seems pretty interesting and fairly new so I have some quesions for you guys.</p>

<p>The BA requires fewer classes and no senior thesis when compared to the BS from the E school, but do you think that employers/grad schools would look upon them very differently if a person doing the BA did the distinguished major (thesis), and took a lot more CS electives? Do you think the E school CS major would be at an advantage or am I splitting hairs?</p>

<p>Does anyone know anything about the intro classes in this sequence? CS 150 and CS 205? They seem really interesting (more so than CS 101, which for me would probably just be learning Java syntax since I can program all right), CS 150 also seems a lot more intellectually stimulating than CS 101 in terms of subject material, what do you think?</p>

2

<p>Introductory BA CS courses are fluff. I see more College students taking the E-school variety even though the first two semesters are just "learning Java syntax". Some of us resent the BA because the BA student don't have to take the E-school requirement courses and to write a thesis. </p>

<p>Employment-wise, I think a Bachelor's in Computer Science from UVA would impress anyone, but my pride asks you this: Why have a Bachelor's of Arts in Computer Science?</p>

3

<p>of course a BS in CS from UVa would impress anyone, but my question is whether a BA-DM in CS from UVa would be impressive if the course load was as rigorous.</p>

<p>The only reason I see to get a BA in CS is because they don't offer the BS through the college (many, many schools offer CS through CAS instead of engineering).</p>

<p>In my case it would be a lot easier to double major through the college if I went that route rather than dealing with the E school requirements, and I would still have the freedom to take upper level CS classes. Its kind of a Engineering Science major with a minor in physics and cs or ee vs. double major in physics(bs) and cs(ba).</p>

<p>and before cav jumps on me, I am not thinking too far ahead. I am just trying to consider all the options and get opinions on all of the options before I got to orientation.</p>

4

<p>Eh, there's an upside to both.
BA: if you're planning to not do engineering-type work, but instead would rather be a hand-fed, machine-like programmer for any company or want to do web-based upkeep/design stuff, or ITT type work, I'd say do the BA. Much more room to gain a wide base of CS knowledge or go totally specialized, take more electives that you can tailor to your career of choice, and be able to double major.<br>
BS: if you want to be able to think and make your project grow beyond just your programming and you want to program while interacting with other fields, i'd do the BS. Since you're in the e-school, you'll think like an engineer, and will be able to interact with the other engineering disciplines a bit better. The obvious trade off is fewer electives, but since you are wanting to do physics or EE, I actually think the BS will make it easier to do those. I also think that you will be better off in the job market with a BS in something like computer science. </p>

<p>If you're planning to do the e-school are are worried that you won't have time for electives, I suggest doing what I'm doing: take the ridiculous classes (diffEq, physics, circuit classes, classes that fullfill your technical electives) during the summer either at UVA or a CC. Then, during the year, take your minor classes (well, your minor classes will be ridiculous too) that you WANT to take and will enjoy, or take other fluff classes that arn't mind-numbing, but don't require more than a few hours of work/studying a week. Your life will be far less painful, and you'll actually enjoy college because a) you'll have a nice mix of classes b) your classes won't be dominating your life c) as a result of a/b, you'll have a social life</p>

5

<p>ay, theres the rub (for in that sleep of death what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil must give us pause...)</p>

<p>I can't really take classes in the summer. I mean, I could and it would be benificial, but I am hoping to spend my summers doing research. I will be taking diffQ as soonas a step foot onto UVa though, which will be... something...</p>

<p>
[quote]
if you're planning to not do engineering-type work, but instead would rather be a hand-fed, machine-like programmer for any company or want to do web-based upkeep/design stuff, or ITT type work

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I would rather shoot myself in the foot</p>

<p>
[quote]
Since you're in the e-school, you'll think like an engineer, and will be able to interact with the other engineering disciplines a bit better.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>couldn't the same be said about being in the College though? You will have more interaction with College disiplines and get a very interdisiplinary eduation. Also, you would have interaction with engineers in your CS classes, because they are still the same classes, and interaction with the "science types" in Physics classes.</p>

<p>If I really wanted to be a software engineer, or an algorithm researcher, or something, then yeah I could see how it would be hands down no other option than the BS. It would be stupid not to. Period.</p>

<p>My problem is, that isn't me. I am not really thinking about majoring in CS and doing physics as well. I mean if I weren't also interested in physics, I would do EE or CS hands down over any other engineering type. My problem comes in blending the two, having room to take upper level/grad courses in both subjects by my 3rd/4th years, working a lab to get research experience, and maintaining a life. It may be possible, but i cant imagine how little I would sleep! So a good way to combine them would be to do Engineering Science. Because I would have to minor in an engineering area, it would easily be EE or CS, and I would probably have room to minor, or maybe get an equivalent major in Physics. With all of the freaking engineering requirements, it would still be dificult to take a philosophy elective here and there, take extra math classes, and still take upper level courses by the end of my time. </p>

<p>Soooooooooooooooooooooo the BS/BS Phys/CS combo looks inviting. If I got echols at the time of my transfer, I wouldn't have to worry about req's, so I would have plenty of time to take all of the necessary classes and some ones that are just for fun, and should be able to maintain more of a life. The only problem is, if I don't get into a grad school that I want to be at, or decide not to go to grad school, I need to be able to get a good job in something I like, not just being a code monkey.</p>

6

<p>1) I would avoid Engineering Science, but that's just me.<br>
2) You can only get one minor.
3) Kiddo, you should know better than "With all of the freaking engineering reqs, it would still be difficult to take a philosophy elective here and there". Especially since you've been responding to me so much! Think back, why did I transfer? Because at UVA if you're in the E-school, you still have a wealth of elective opportunities! Especially if you're taking diffEq right off the bat, you'll be done your math sequence other than an elective (stat or whatever else). You'll have plenty of electives! And a minor in physics on top of an engineering degree is no sweat, because you'll already have taken two courses. Also, your physics courses will count as technical electives, which knocks out those. Look at the CS dept website and look at the course overview (they'll have a page/pdf that lists the courses you need to take over four years), print it out, and cross out the courses you've taken, and look at the number of electives you have. I'm sure you'll have the 15-18 hours available to minor, and tons of e-school students do end up minoring, and still have room left over to take the humanities classes (after all, you have to take some).
4) You might not get Echols. Then you're somewhat screwed.
5) For summers, many professors will understand if you take a class over the summer. Most are 6-week courses, so you could take one during each (3 sessions), do your research around it, and still do fine with it all.</p>

7

<ol>
<li>Maybe true, I'm going to talk to my advisor about that one.</li>
<li>I thought you could get two, or at least someone said that once (on here I think) and no one corrected them. Anyways, thats not a big deal.</li>
<li>I am going to head over to the EE CE and CS pages to see what the reqs are again. I dont really want to just 'minor' in physics (if I have room to get the equivalent of a major, but only get credit for the minor thats cool). I want to major in it. In a way, I think I actually want to major in it more than I want to major in any engineering. If I don't have room to do both, i would probably be more likely to minor in CS or EE and major in Physics (unless thats impossible). In that case, it would be better to have the BA in CS instead of just a minor.</li>
<li>Meh, while your 1000% right, I already talked to the echols director about this one, and he all but promised me I would get Echols. I guess theres the small chance I fail all of my classes then I probably wouldn't be let in.</li>
<li>Thats great advice. Thats also something I am going to have to worry about much later on though, as its difficult to plan around. Who knows where I will be, I could be at UVa or I could be in a lab close to home or I could be at a lab in NY for an REU. I guess in any case I could find a CC there to take the classes at. Thats something I will definitely think about!</li>
</ol>

8

<p>
[quote]
Introductory BA CS courses are fluff

[/quote]
</p>

<p>really? Reading <a href="http://www.cs.virginia.edu/cs150-fall2005/evals/seas-sec1.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.cs.virginia.edu/cs150-fall2005/evals/seas-sec1.pdf&lt;/a> that survey, two comments note that</p>

<p>"This course felt quite overwhelming, but Prof. Evans showed an understanding to an extreme I never
expected."</p>

<p>"The most intellectually challenging course that I took this semester."</p>

<p>about CS150. Doesn't seem too fluffy to me, though I dont have the context fo their assertations.</p>

<p>Also, the textbook he uses for the class is none other than *Godel Escher and Bach<a href="GEB">/i</a>, one of the most brilliant philosophical computer science books ever written. I am actually reading it myself, and trust me, even the most brilliant of students would have to read some passages in that book a number of times to really understand the subject matter.</p>

<p>EDITed for more student comments:</p>

<p>
[quote]
I really appreciated how much effort Prof. Evans put in to the course...the homework assignments and class lectures had a lot of thought and time put into them, he tried really hard to make a somewhat intimidating subject approachable.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
This class was very attractive because it said that there was no need for background in coding. However, I found it the most difficult of all my classes because although there was no experience needed, simply the difficulty of learning a new language and applying it to different situations was very hard and a person who did have a background in coding might have felt very well more comfortable and a transition into another language less painful than starting from scratch. However, I was glad that there was a large amount of material not related to coding but general computer science that was quite fascinating.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
This is the only class that I have taken in the Engineering School and was pleasantly surprised, but I almost think the problem sets should be made into a lab, they each took between 3-4 hours. I don't know how CLAS differs from the E-Schoool but I have spent MUCH MUCH more time doing work for this course than I have any other 3 credit course. Also, the text book, while interesting, actually didn't help me to understand the course material and was intimdating and challenging in a not so good way.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
This class was amazing. It was really challenging, and the instructor was really knowledgeable. I really learned a lot about an intimidating subject. That said, the class was a huge time commitment and a lot of work. I have never put so much time into a 3 credit course before. Maybe it should be 4 credits?

[/quote]
</p>

9

<p>I knew two College students who took CS101 and it blew them away. My point is that most College students will say stuff like this about a computer programming class because they've never ever ever been exposed to it. I took a Java class last semester that kids (and I mean ~15% of the class) failed, and 35% got Cs (oooh I love grade distribution charts haha) and that's because it was a class designed for non-engineering students (the engineering java class was during my physics class that I couldn't change...grr..thank god UVA still gave me credit). Then again, I took a C/C++ class and it blew me out of the water, but it was because I had never seen C before.</p>

<p>My thought on all of this: you seem exceptionally smart and very intellectual. I think it would be worth it for you to major in engineering, minor in physics, do physics research over summers, and land a super well-paid engineering job post college and make an agreement that if they pay for your grad school, you'll work for them, then go get a MS in physics and do some quality, self-fullfilling, orgasmic physics research on your own. But that's just my suggestion...
If you REALLY want to go the College route, double major in both, or major in one/both and get an engineering minor, and decide job vs grad school then.</p>

10

<p>erm, shoebox, all worthwhile science PhD programs are fully funded by the school/department. No need to mess around with employers. </p>

<p>My two cents: engineering is LAME. Go all out with the physics stuff.</p>

11

<p>that's PhD. I'm talking Masters. There's no f***ing way grad school for masters is paid for by the school.</p>

<p>and engineering is not lame. go drive across a bridge, or fly in a plane, or keep typing on your computer. yeah, who's lame now =P</p>

12

<p>In any case, try finding physics program that's pursuing opportunities for "orgasmic research" to its master's degree students...if it even has a terminal master's degree program (most don't).</p>

<p>physics>engineering, btw.</p>

13

<p>You see the trick to get funding for a Master's is to say you are going for a PhD. and "change your mind" about a PhD. when you get your Master's.</p>

<p>Ehiunno, I know a few people who majored in both Engineering and Physics. I have noted that the Physics classes are difficultly insane at the 200-level, but they survived. The problems they had were not of fulfilling the requirements of the double major but the difficultly of the Physics classes. Granted, I know people who used Physics II homework for a break from Circuits homework. Heck, I did Digital Logic Design homework as a break from Circuits. The point is that you do that double major and survive. You are starting farther ahead than anyone I know so I know, not think, you will do well in the E-School and complete that double major.</p>

<p>Also, I have talked with people on both sides to get a fair comparison of the intro courses. The BA courses are fluff, and David Evans is Satan.</p>

14

<p>Dangit, is circuits that hard? What class is that (ECE #__?) What the heck do you even do in it? (I watched a 4.0, 20-credit e-schooler struggle through it and get a C...i'm scurrred)</p>

15

<p>ECE 203, but 51% of the difficulty was from Professor Micheal L. Reed aka Satan's chief high priest (since Prof. Evans is Satan). The guy hates midterms, but he loves making really hard problems in his homeworks. That and his obsession over the number 666. He makes problems with resistances, capacitences, and inductances valuing 666 multiplied by an order of magnitude. He mentioned with glee in office hours that his daughter's W-2 form noted she owed $66.67. </p>

<p>The class focuses on a lot of stuff that involves circuits from equivalent impedences, transfer functions, voltage equations for circuit elements, and Thevenin equivalent circuits. </p>

<p>Reed is not teaching 203 in the fall, but the class he created, ECE 200 Science of Information. Sadly, he took my favorite TA with him. :(</p>

16

<p>How is David Evans Satan? He seems like a pretty nice, pretty reasonable guy. I have exchanged a bunch of emails with him discussing this very topic and he has been very informative and helpful. Does he just assign a lot of hard homework or something?</p>

<p>He also has what seems to be the exact opposite of the majority opinion on here, and believes that if I took the same classes and did a thesis, that I would be in just as good of shape with a BS in Physics and BA in CS versus the other options</p>

17

<p>He does not give out a lot of homework, but rather impossible homework. He made a 200-level class make a Connect Four game within a week in Python, a language the class begins learning that same week. He maybe a nice guy, but his professor skills are lacking so much it's cruel.</p>

18

<p>Hahahaha ohgod, I have to take ECE 200 or one of the other science electives eventually. Maybe i'll take the MSE class if he's still teaching ECE200 come spring..</p>

19

<p>I'm totally jealous of you guys. If I was at UVA now, I would have majored in totally different disciplines. Though Econ and International Relations are great, I would have studied Media Studies and Computer Science - 2 degrees that were not offered in the College 10 years ago. Oh well...</p>

20

<p>You could have taken the courses that could have given the BS in Computer Science even if it was an arduous task in your time. I do not recall if you are a student or not at this time. Don't hold that against me.</p>