<p>Actually, I did take some of those courses in the Engineering School though I was in the College. Believe it or not, I still have my old C, C++, Basic, Pascal, and HTML text books on my shelf here in NY. For some weird reason, I saved a lot of my college books.</p>
<p>I still have books from first year so it's not that strange at all.</p>
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He does not give out a lot of homework, but rather impossible homework. He made a 200-level class make a Connect Four game within a week in Python, a language the class begins learning that same week.
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<p>wow. thats kind of crazy actually.</p>
<p>So after playing around with CSEE course reqs and physics reqs it certainly looks possible to have the schedule and take no more than 18 credit hours a semester, but it would involve me using all of my AP credit to get rid of all but one HSS elective, so I basically would have no classes other than math/phs/eng, and I would only have almost no room for grad level classes even in my senior year. I dont like the sound of that.</p>
<p>That really makes the BS/BA tempting, but I think the other way could be worked out.</p>
<p>then again, as sakky always says on here, Your employer cares about what you can do, not what you majored in.</p>
<p>edit: So, are there anymore opinions floating around the interblag about this subject?</p>
<p>So, I must say, I like the initiative to do well in school and take hard classes. But seriously...what have cav and I stressed? Oh yeah, having a LIFE. Planning to take grad level classes senior year will tank that idea haha. Besides, most professors don't let undergrad into grad classes, and they may say now they do, but you're 3-4 years away from that time and things may and probably will change. Especially since grad school enrollment is up.</p>
<p>My vote is e-school. Why? You can do practically anything with an engineering degree, and especially a CS degree. Getting a physics minor will be obtainable. If you took a class or two over the summers, in addition to the fact you're starting ahead in math by 2 classes, you should be able to work in other classes. With research (I work a 45hr/week job and still take a class twice a week for 3 hours each night...it's sometimes hectic trying to eat, but I get it all done very well, and play on the weekends).<br>
I know it sucks to want to do everything, then realize you can't. That's the tradeoff of engineering, but you get rewarded with ridiculous job offers and being able to pursue grad school without much thought.<br>
Honestly, I would talk to someone asap about your trouble deciding. Go see Paxton Marshall, the undergrad dean. He really is a great guy, and has a MA in History and BS/MS in EE and PhD in Education, so he knows what it's like to want to pursue interests outside of engineering. He'll help guide you, and will probably get you to an answer on your own better than anyone else. You could also email him, as I did many times while trying to decide whether to transfer or not. My guess is he's checking his email over the summer since he is a dean and all.
Another thing: as I've said before, you seem well beyond your years in intellectual terms. You're probably more likely to meet the same type of people in the e-school, simply because the e-school is a lot more difficult. But, the BS/BA route will probably have fewer students and you'll have more room to venture into courses, even in the e-school, that'll have those types of people.</p>
<p>Shoe, grad schools really, really like to see a student take high level or grad level classes as an undergad. Its one big thing they look for, and I definitely understand the myriad of things that can be done with an eng degree, but I would still be getting a CS degree, and with the same classes would still be capable of the same things.</p>
<p>I also doubt I would have trouble finding intellectuals in the College (now, at VT, im sure its like that :p) and half of my classes woudl still be in the E school, and I would have much more time to take other E school classes.</p>
<p>Shoe, understand that the majority of the reasoning behind this decision is so I can have an ability to balance social life and school. If I am taking 20 CH and doign research, I will have <em>no life</em>, lol. I am trying to avoid that to do what I love and have time for my friends.</p>
<p>I am browsing through pages finding cool classes that I would want to take, but would have absolutely no time for if I stayed in the E school and did what I am planning on doing. I was reading the USEM 180 syllabus and thinking that woudl be amazing to take first semester, and then realized I would be taking 19 CH if I through that on top of my current schedule. yikes! I think I will give Dean Marshall another call. I talked to him a while ago about this problem and I decided to stay in the E school (before I knew about the BA in CS).</p>
<p>I have been talking to Dr. Evans about it as well. He seems to think that it wont matter at all if I am in the College vs. the E school, and I am more inclined to trust a Prof with a PhD from MIT than some person on a forum I have never met before (:p). Grant it, he is biased because it is his program, but he is the one deciding who works in his lab as a grad student, and his opinion is that niether he nor anyone else in academia deciding on grad students would care if I had a BA instead of a BS, and that only a few employers would, but those are the kind I do not want to work for.</p>
<p>I dont want to sound like I am leaning towards that track though, I am just playing devils advocate and trying to see what you can come up with in response, or in support of either decision. I'll be emailing Dean Marshall shortly.</p>
<p>and for the record, I looked up David Evans on ratemyprofessor.com, and every other comment said that he was either one of the best prof's at UVa, or the best in the CS department. o_0.</p>
<p>1) Grad schools I don't think care all that much. Yes, it's preferred. But not everyone can take grad courses, especially since not all schools have a grad school attached. If you do well in undergrad with 400-level classes, that will suffice. Especially if you're doing research. Trust me, I've been looking into grad schools and their reqs a lot this summer, and top ones (I'm talking UT, Stanford, UCs, Miami, Cornell, etc) never mention it, but do mention top undergrad classes.</p>
<p>2) VT has its fair share of intellectuals, trust me. I know I transferred out, but I still have the upmost respect for the school and its caliber of students. You're stupid and naive if you think a majority of VT students are dumb. And the College has plenty of dolts, don't kid yourself. </p>
<p>3) There's no way you can do research during the year, other than maybe helping a professor a few hours a week, during the year. That, and you can easily do an engineering major and minor in physics without having to load up. Plenty of people minor in the e-school, and if you're doing physics, it might even be easier because you can fill up technical electives with the classes. I'm doing either International Relations, Economics, or Urban Studies, and none of those have technical classes. I'm going to have to do summer classes if I want to make it. </p>
<p>4) If you're ahead in math, don't jump right into DiffEq. It's an insane class and frankly I was going to suggest to you that you put it off till second semester anyways. It's a bad way to start off the year haha IMO. It's a hard class, a majority fail it, and you really don't need any recent calc stuff. I only used stuff we learned in calc 1 and a bit of early calc 2 stuff. So, that's a side suggestion. You could even put it off till next summer, but that's a bit of a reach. </p>
<p>5) In no way am I trying to say either way is worse. Frankly, I think the BA would be more fun in that you could spend your years taking fun, interesting classes, be able to double major, and enjoy life and drink beer and hang out with pretty ladies. Then again, I see an engineering degree as hard work like none other, but worth it in the end, and I believe everyone will see that. Computer science is an art, but I think you could do more in your desired track if you had engineering background.</p>
<p>Since you're already stuck in the e-school, I would follow the e-school curriculum. It's a lot easier to transfer out than want to continue but not have classes fullfilled. See how your first year goes, and then make a decision. No need in worrying about it right now, because you may get into some of the engineering classes and go woot woot engineering! haha then again you may say "F this, i'm leaving". Engineers have a life, and can enjoy fun classes, it just takes a bit of planning. You may be able to earn credits for a minor by doing research, especially if you do it at UVA, and c'ville during the summer is a bit slow, but tons of people stay and have a blast. The physics department i'm sure could work with you (seeming some classes have to be upper level and independent research is like 600-800s haha) and help you obtain a minor. But like you said before, even if you can't put a minor down on paper, if you have a bunch of classes AND research under your belt, you'll golden kid :) So, like I said, I would just sit out first semester and see what happens. Start talking to professors, early, and try to line up research and work with the physics department. If you earn 3-6 credits a summer, that's 1-2 classes less that you have to take for a minor. I know school during summer sounds sucky, but its a whole different arena. Trust me. Much easier, plus, the feeling of summer and only 1-2 classes is amazing. </p>
<p>You'll do fine. Feel free to PM me whenever if you want to throw around ideas. I support either route, I know both are very different, and I envy you that you even have a choice haha. I love learning all sorts of things and would love to take more classes, and I think someone like you would do very well double majoring, but also having a broad background, so I'm all for your BA route, trust me. I also know that engineering degrees can open many doors, and you can accomplish what you want to do in the e-school and have a life. You have time to decide, and lots of people around you to help. Just go with what feels right, but give it time.</p>
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and for the record, I looked up David Evans on ratemyprofessor.com, and every other comment said that he was either one of the best prof's at UVa, or the best in the CS department. o_0.
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<p>Apparently, the alphabet was rearranged last night because the name of best professor in the CS department is spelled A-A-R-O-N B-L-O-O-M-F-I-E-L-D.</p>
<p>Oh man, I found aaron bloomfield's facebook and lol'd at his 1 wall post, and 'Aaron Bloomfield is a Golden God" group. haha</p>
<p>yo, current rodman here offering some insights.</p>
<p>To the OP:
I don't have much background in the CS department, but I just wanted to offer some advice about double majoring (I'm actually not a double major but did consider it in a few areas). I noticed that in one of your previous posts you said that you could successfully do a double w/ ~18 hours a semester. From my experience, the sheer number of credit hours per semester isn't usually the problem in achieving a double major, it's the fact that some of your classes in both areas will inevitably have conflicting class times in any given semester. It's hard to plan for this at times because uva doesn't release a COD for classes you'll be taking your 3rd and 4th year. If you're set on a double major, the best way to get around this is to take as many of your major requirements as early and as often as possible. Overall, I wouldn't say that this is a huge problem; most people who want to double major can do it without too much difficulty, even in the e-school. It is something you should be aware of, though. </p>
<p>In response to some of the things in shoebox's previous post:
1) It's definitely better to have grad classes under your belt. Especially for someone who is intellectually curious like the OP, you'll find that you may want to take some grad classes not just "to say you have taken grad classes", but because a lot of grad classes are just more interesting than undergrad classes. You'll probably have to course action to get into most grad classes, but I don't see any reason why a professor would not let you in if you had the necessary background</p>
<p>2) I also know many smart kids @ VT</p>
<p>4) DiffEQ is a hard class, but you are wildly exaggerating when you say "a majority fail it." Tests are pretty hard, homework is often long and painful, but like most other APMA classes the final grades are curved/re-scaled. I don't think it's a big deal to take it 1st semester if you feel you are qualified. Personally, I took it 2nd semster, but I know some first years who did it 1st semester and they dealt with it fine. </p>
<p>One last thing, most students who do research in the summer do it for $$ instead of for credit. Research for credit is usually done during the year. </p>
<p>That's my $0.02 for now, hope that helps a little.</p>
<p>Shoe, come on, you KNOW I was joking about VT. I have much love for tech and the students there.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice, boundary.</p>
<p>For the record though, I'll say again that I really don't want to minor in physics at this point. I want to major in it, a minor in physics would seem pointess to me. The idea is to have something practical as well, so combine both sides of the spectrum, that way, if I dont want to go to grad school I can still get a GOOD engineering job (not a job as a lab tech). Theres not much you can do with a physics BS. Or I should say, there are a lot more things you can do with an engineering BS than a physics one, which is why I want to do both - to get away from the theoretical and apply it if need be. Let it be known that I don't want to minor in physics.</p>
<p>I have told myself before that if doing physics and engineering becomes to much, I woudl drop the engineering before the physics, especially now that I coudl still get a CS degree through the college.</p>
<p>But I do know plenty of people that have done research during the year, either for credit or just because. Its not that uncommon, but it is more uncommon than summer research.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice and support everyone, this will be a tough decision no doubt.</p>
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Theres not much you can do with a physics BS.
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<p>I strongly disagree with that.</p>
<p>thats why I supplemented that with</p>
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Or I should say, there are a lot more things you can do with an engineering BS than a physics one
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<p>but then again, I have always been told that there is little you can do with a physics degree other than teach high school or go on to grad school. That is, assuming no prep for med/law/dental etc schools.</p>
<p>Honestly, I would love to have you convince me that there are just as many things you can do with a physics degree. Can you post something or link to something supporting your position. I have really always been told that there isn't.</p>
<p>There are tons of non-science related careers that you can pursue with the sh1t-hot quant skills you pick up in physics/math courses. Banking, trading, consulting, etc are all within your reach if you do reasonably well. Those fields pay much better than engineering and, as far as I'm concerned, they're much more interesting.</p>
<p>Good, glad we got the minor thing straight. I think you could double major in engineering and physics, it would just have to be planned carefully. Your physics classes will fullfill tech electives, but you might have to take a summer class, or two, or a few.
But, I think you really want to major in physics. If you did the BA/BS (CS/Physics) route, you could minor in an engineering field. That might be your best route. You could easily do some of the minor stuff in your first two years (as long as you're Echols**) and get ahead on each major. That would give you a chance to study what you want AND get a solid background.</p>
<p>**on Echols: if you arn't guaranteed Echols before you switch, I wouldn't switch. You'd be screwed trying to get reqs done, and it would be hard to double major, much less get a minor on top.</p>
<p>So says the econ major, cav. But yeah, your right, and those are things I looked in to, and would certainly be worthy carreers.</p>
<p>And yeah, I think you are totally right about echols. I will have a lot of humanities credits coming in (gahhhh I got a 7 on History HL I am so excited!!!!!!!!!!!) but yeah, if I apply to switch I am going to make sure that I have at least an unofficial guarantee I will get Echols, because I will have 0 foriegn language credits.</p>
<p>Look, I have experience in several of these areas and have heard my fair share of family/friend accounts of these careers. Engineering/CS can be interesting in some cases, but they ultimately strike me as dull, dead-end pursuits in which you always find yourself working for someone else, while earning "OK" pay. There's a bit more power that comes with business jobs, in addition to the prospect of significantly higher pay. </p>
<p>I dunno, I'd never, ever want to work as an engineer, but I could see working as a research physicist or something. If only I weren't so lazy...</p>
<p>Cav: that's why you either work for a powerhouse corp (Boeing, Lockhead, Raytheon, etc) or work for a start up. Now CS, eh, I find it dull too. But plenty of engineers find great, high-salary jobs quick, there's just a short ceiling in salary. But, I agree on the business career, I just think there's more room for error. Finance/investment apparently is great money, but I find finance stuff a bore and investment only if what I'm investing in is something I'm interested in. Engineers like to see stuff start to finish, but business it's more at-the-moment type stuff.
And, a research physicist would be awesome too. Hands on, which is another plus to it/engineering. But you are right, there are a ton of jobs out there for physics majors. And if ehiunno was to go on to grad school, or just join a company, and specialize in something (mmm astrophysics!), he would do well. Especially with the new space race/high-tech rave coming on, he could definitely find a job.</p>
<p>Sorry, trying to find a featherbed in the midst of all of this..finding a decent one for ~$50 is hard. I've given up trying to find a TwinXL one, i'd rather get more fill than 5 extra inches</p>