BA/MD -- A Reflection

Pre-Med & Medical School Multiple Degree Programs
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<p>*** Disclaimer: I did not review what I wrote. So, I apologize for any grammatical/stylistic mistakes. ***</p>

<p>Hello!</p>

<p>It has been several years since I visited this site. I was prompted to do so after a family friend requested some advice regarding BA/MD programs. </p>

<p>So, as you can search and find out, I started the BA/MD program at Rutgers-UMDNJ in 2005. I had a difficult time choosing between HPME and Rutgers. Now, it’s been six years and I hope to reflect upon my decision and its outcomes. I feel this is necessary as many posters here are curious about BA/MD programs, but there is no real authority on this site. Having just graduated medical school (6 years since high school), I hope to offer my experience as a guide to making your decision. </p>

<p>Please don’t message me or ask about your chances. </p>

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<li><p>Outcome – a neglected topic on this board
So, as said, I just graduated medical school. Now, after med school is residency and this can be followed by employment or further training in the form of a fellowship. I am very pleased with my residency selection. I will be pursuing a residency in dermatology at Harvard. Many would say that this is one of the hardest residency programs in the country to obtain. This reflects on how much (or little) where you went to med school matters in getting a residency position. Others in my program did very well this year, too. Their residencies include: Radiation Oncology at MD Anderson, Internal Medicine at Yale, Anesthesia at Yale, Surgery at Brown, Pediatrics at UPenn. Not a bad list. </p></li>
<li><p>Prestige – a hotly discussed topic on this board
In becoming a doctor, one would argue it is your residency that matters most. This is true as what you practice is determined by in what you train. Moreover, the prestige of your residency program outweighs that of your medical school and definitely undergrad. I have no idea where my attending physicians went for undergrad and only know where a few went to medical school (mostly because they told me). Yet, where they trained (i.e. residency) is brought up quite a few times. Moreover, if you wish to run a private practice, even your residency doesn’t matter too much. Just ask yourself how well you know the credentials of your doctor. It’s really a moot point. It’s only in academia that it matters where you trained. Other than that, if you don’t want to be a professor/chair of a department, then your pedigree means very little. So, it’s quite interesting when there are arguments on this website about which program is “better.” In all honesty, there are really just a handful of medical schools that can “stand out.” Those would be: Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford and maybe Penn. Aside from those, whether you go to NYU or Northwestern doesn’t seem to matter too much. I guess the only difference is makes is when you go to a certain medical school, you may have a little preference in there residency program. That being said, no Harvard Medical School graduate got selected for their own dermatology residency program. So, don’t go around comparing rankings too much. You can do very well coming from a relatively less prestigious school or vise-versa. </p></li>
<li><p>Money and Time -- Matters of life
These are the true advantages of the BA/MD programs. I saved two years and a couple of hundred thousand dollars by selecting Rutgers-UMDNJ. Two years is huge. The opportunity cost is rather large as well. You can earn ~350,000/year x 2 years or pursue a fellowship. So, with a two year fellowship, I can go from being a regular dermatologist to a Mohs Microsurgeon. With 3 years, an internal medicine doctor becomes a cardiologist. Time is worth a lot. I know it’s difficult to realize that as a high school. But, once you are starting a family, etc., those years start making a difference. </p></li>
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<p>Moreover, the rising cost of education is going to put you or your parents in financial strain. Hopefully, you are from a wealthy background and tuition costs won’t affect you. Yet, $200,000 debt does impact a lot of people. So, say you went to an ivy league for undergrad at 50 grand a year (maybe you got some financial help, so it comes out to 25 or so), you’ve already accrued a lot of debt. But, then there’s medical school. And trust me, hardly anyone gets scholarships in med school. Rather, instead you get federal Stafford loans. So, as most private med schools cost ~60k/year, you will have at least 40k/year in Stafford loans and the rest will come from elsewhere. So, at the end of the day, you may be looking at 250 k in debt at an interest of 6.8%. That is a hefty sum. But, you should be able to pay it off as a doctor (hopefully…). Yet, will this debt influence your life decisions? Would it make you less likely to go into surgery as it requires a longer residency (in which you only get paid 50k/year for 7 years). Also, did it make a huge difference to go to school “a” instead of school “b”? </p>

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<li><p>Comparisons – Now and then
I, the valedictorian of my high school, chose to go to a state school. This was against the norms of my school, in which the top students had to go to one of the Ivy League Schools. My guidance councilors tried to convince to not even go to HPME let alone UMDNJ. But, why? What experience did they have in the matter? Three of my friends from high school, who were interested in medicine, went to undergrad at Princeton (2) and Columbia. One was not able to maintain her GPA at Princeton and thus could not even apply to med school (Princeton selects who becomes pre-med); the other two had to take a year off b/w undergrad and med school. One is going to Mount Sinai the other Albert Einstein Medical School. Both are just finishing their first year of medical school, while I just graduated.
Does undergrad make a real difference in your life as a doctor? No. You can party and fool around for a year or so. But, premed is stressful and you will have to work hard. The MCAT is no joke. If your GPA is sub-par, it doesn’t matter if you went to Princeton, you won’t be going to medical school. </p></li>
<li><p>Final say -- 6 years of experience
Go to a BA/MD program if you are somewhat (even remotely) sure you want to go into medicine. And medicine is very broad -- you will definitely find something you are interested in. If you don’t want to see patients, you can become an administrator, go into pharmaceuticals, become a professors… there are limitless possibilities. Yet, there are no other fields that can guarantee you a six figure salary for the rest of your life. Stability, respect and value are the hallmarks of medicine. </p></li>
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<p>If prestige is biting you, then work really hard in the undergrad part of the BA/MD program. Try to do well on the MCAT. If your GPA is great, MCAT is high and you have solid extra-curriculars, apply out of the program. If not, don’t apply out. Keep the MD part of the BA/MD program as your back up. I had one friend in the program who applied out and got into Harvard Medical School. Another applied out, got in nowhere. If you think it’s hard being an asian and getting into undergrad, just wait until medical school admissions. Indian male is not the desired racial/gender category. </p>

<p>Otherwise, enjoy undergrad as a BA/MDer. Go travel abroad and take courses that your pre-med friends would like to but can’t (b/c GPA matters for them). You don’t lose anything in that year you “skipped” – just fewer exams. The “undergrad experience” is overrated/only applies to non pre-meds in their first two years of schools. Instead, apply that year to doing a NIH research fellowship in med school (which makes your residency application look amazing) or pursue an additional fellowship after residency (eg. Go from becoming general surgeon to a Burn surgeon). </p>

<p>I could keep writing -- I have a lot more to say. Yet, I’m thinking about putting the other info in the form of a paper. If I do so, I’ll post the link at somepoint. </p>

<p>Best of luck, future doctors!</p>

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<p>^Awesome post.
Congrats on your huge success at the combined medical program.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much for the awesome post. This is the first time that I hear from someone who has been through the entire process. And you got into Derm at Harvard, no less. This backs up the counterintuitive argument against what most people have assumed, lacking sufficient knowledge/facts.
Please post more, if you have time.</p>

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<p>Congrats, OP, on great residency!!! Awesome accomplishment!</p>

<p>", the valedictorian of my high school, chose to go to a state school. This was against the norms of my school, in which the top students had to go to one of the Ivy League Schools. "
-I can add based on D’s experience. She is only going to Med. School, so she is not as far as OP. However, these 2 sentences were true for her also. Her experience is slightly different. She also went to bs/md at state school after graduating #1 from her private prep. HS. She has chosen 4 + 4 bs/md (she got into 3 bs/md’s, one of which was accelerated, but she wanted to have regular college experince with minors, sorority, travels abroad,…). She also decided to apply out of her program (her program allowed her to retain her spot at Med. School in her bs/md). She was accepted to few Med. Schools outside of her bs/md and has chosen to go to one of them. Being in a program has given her great confidence in “regular route” application process, since she had one spot before she even applied. It also made her UG years more enjoyable at UG (not worrying about Med. School acceptances). State UG was perfect match for her personality and wide range of interests. She had many more opportunitites there than we had ever imagined. Many pre-meds at her state UG were successful Med. School applicants. She was the only one though who has applied out of 10 original people in her bs/md . Aslo, shince she was on full tuition Merit scholarship at state school, which has saved us lots of money, we are planning to support her thru Med. School. </p>

<p>Based on D’s experience, going bs/md route at State school was a very good choice with great outcome so far, despite being a different experience than OP and not as far in a process. D. is looking forward to start at Med. School in 5 weeks.</p>

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<p>CONGRATULATIONS on an awesome achievement!
Thank you for taking the time to pass on your wisdom to the next generation of applicants. Really appreciate that!
May you have continued sucesses in your career going forward</p>

<p>hypermom</p>

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<p>I just chose Duke over that program. And I was on the fence for awhile. If only this were posted earlier… :(</p>

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<p>That’s not necessarily the wrong move.</p>

<p>What you should understand is that when the OP or I share our experiences, they are just OUR experiences. We are biased by our successes. For some, the traditional pathway is the right move. And for some BS/MD programs are good. The fact the OP had great success going the Rutgers route says nothing as to what you should do.</p>

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<p>hydrogen3k: did you have super high USMLE scores?</p>

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<p>WAN9STA,
You will be fine. Never look back, look forward. As I have mentioned, although my D. was in bs/md, she has successfully applied out and starting at Med school outside of her program. Hard working person will be successful achieving his goal no matter what route.</p>

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<p>Great insight into the BA/MD programs! Thank you so much for taking the time to analyze and compare the different routes. Also appreciate the stats you provided on some of your peers. Good luck to you and hope you can make time to post more.</p>

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<p>Awesome post! I hope you add a second part soon.</p>

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<p>best post I’ve read in a while. please do post a link if you write more. i too Emwas thinking rutgers or tcnj 's program</p>

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<p>Thanks so much for a wonderful detailed post. 7 year medicine is a very hard choice and this post gave a very real life example of how good this decision can be.</p>