BA vs BFA and much more.

College Majors Theater/Drama Majors
1

<p>Hello! This is my first posting on here so bare with me...</p>

<p>I am currently junior in high school and I am planning on going into theatre in college. I have been singing, dancing, and acting my entire life, and it's the only thing I am passionate about. I have a lot of questions though. First of all, I think I have decided to not go into musical theatre, but what I want is a school that doesn't specify in acting vs musical theatre, but combines it all (dance, music, real classical acting training) into one performance program. This way I can continue singing and taking lessons, but being able to really focus on acting I want a school that still does a good amount of musicals each year that I can be in. I'm also looking for a school that has a lot of student directed performances each year so that I can do more than just the few main stage productions. I don't think a conservatory is necessarily the best option for me since I am a very good student and like taking classes in other fields, but I want a large amount of my classes to be theatre, music, and partially dance based. The BA vs BFA decision is really a struggle for me, and I keep flipping back and forth with what I want. Anyone have any pros and cons? Also I'd love to go to a school that has large/ main stage productions only available to theatre majors, but does that only occur in conservatories? I live in the DC area, and I know my parents don't want me to go too far away, but I would be open to anywhere in the country. Another important factor for me is an abroad program. So with all this criteria, does anyone have any advice or schools that would work for me?? </p>

<p>These are some schools I am very interested it:</p>

<p>Northwestern
Carnegie Mellon
Muhlenberg
Ithaca
Fordham
Wagner
Elon
Sarah Lawrence</p>

<p>Any advice is helpful!!</p>

2

<p>Definitely read through the archived threads and go back as far as you can on these forums (theatre and MT). You can do searches by keywords. You should find tons of answers to all your questions and get off to a good start that way!</p>

3

<p>^^Great suggestion. </p>

<p>I don’t think Fordham puts on much in the way of musicals. </p>

<p>NYU/Tisch meets a lot of your criteria.</p>

<p>Look into USC as well.</p>

4

<p>I second sooziet’s suggestion of USC. My S( also a Junior who is weighing the BA vs BFA decision), and I just got back from USC’s theater tour. We live in So Cal. He was VERY impressed with their BA program… and he loved that they had TONS of main stage plays and student run, I think something like 60 a year. The best thing about USC is that all of their plays, except 1, are open to BFA and BA students. The BA’s can study abroad. I have a very good friend whose D is there now doing the BA…she is actually in London studying at BADA this semester. She feels that the BA training is every much as good as the BFA. You can also audition for the BFA, but if you don’t make it, you are automatically considered for the BA. No audition required for the BA.</p>

<p>Your list looks good other than that omission. FYI… CMU is a conservatory style BFA program.</p>

5

<p>Reading over your post, theatregal, there are a couple of closer-to-home schools that you might consider: American University, right there in DC, and James Madison University, in Harrisonburg VA. Both have well-rounded BA programs with strong training, and I know JMU has tons of performance opportunities as well as good academics. If you haven’t seen JMU, I’d really recommend going to a production there–I expect you’ll be impressed–and their facility is gorgeous.</p>

6

<p>Another school to consider is Shenandoah. As an acting major, you are still allowed to audition for the musicals and take MT dance classes. Also, not far from the DC area.</p>

7

<p>While it doesn’t offer much in the way of outside academics, the University of Utah BFA emphasizes a lot on singing and movement/dancing within their acting BFA, and offer mainstage musicals, as well as mainstage plays, and student productions of both types. The program also offers a semester (maybe a year, I can’t remember) in London for study abroad. They immediately came to mind when I read your post, despite being further away than most of your other schools, and it honestly seems like it could suit you really well.</p>

<p>I know little about their BA, but perhaps if you looked into that, their training would be similar, but with more room for academic classes outside of your major.</p>

8

<p>Theatregal96,
The program you’re looking for does not exist if you’re serious about getting in-depth classical training. There are 24 hours in a day and you can’t cram classical training into it along with the singing and dance you say you want and then combine it all with quality academics in the time frame we mortals have been granted in which to work. So you’ll have to make some choices. </p>

<p>From what you’ve described, you might be a good fit for the UM Guthrie Theater BFA who require a good bit of academic coursework along with their classical training and seek out students who want that. Just be forewarned that I’ve known several people who went there enthused about that aspect but later complained about the “academic time suck” getting in the way of their training. CMU is also great, but they have their celebrated MT-specific program in place which you’ve said you’d prefer to avoid. I think they require their Acting majors to take one regular academic course per semester and it’s overall a good academic school, so all’s not lost in that respect if you can get accepted there and actually afford it. UNCSA also offers the kind of training you say you want at a more reasonable cost, but they’re fairly weak academically like you’d expect from a stand-alone conservatory. </p>

<p>As for the rest, they’re all good programs, but you’d most likely still need grad school to acquire the depth of classical training offered at the name conservatories. A couple of other programs you might want to look into if you decide you want a mid-weight BFA with an academic emphasis to be followed with an MFA for the in-depth classical aspect are the University of Evansville and SMU. They’ve at least in the past been pretty generous with scholarships, too, although I’m not sure SMU does much in the way of musicals. </p>

<p>Actually, all this was covered years ago on the MT forum when Doctorjohn stepped in with his characteristic (and missed) intellectual honesty to save me from a lynch mob of angry stage parents I’d aroused … <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2937850-post44.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/2937850-post44.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Just watch the cost of any undergraduate program you consider if you start thinking MFA unless your parents are willing and able to spring for it on top of what they’ll pay for undergrad. There are a few good MFAs in which you get a tuition waiver and a stipend, but that’s not the case with most of the top ones and there are an awful lot of talented people around who have any combination of prestigious Theatre and Acting degrees but can’t afford to pursue a life in the art because of all the dept they were ill-advised to take on when they were younger.</p>

9

<p>I would suggest you also spend some time thinking about what it is you want to eventually do with your career. That could help narrow the track. </p>

<p>Fishbowl’s advice is excellent. The training is very time consuming. </p>

<p>If you go for a BA, whether it is because you intellectually want to pursue other studies, or because you want a backup degree, you should keep in mind that you will competing for acting work against the BFA students who have that much more training. Lets use NYU as an example. Not to pick on NYU but because it makes an easy example. Acting or MT students at NYU are in studio 3 days a week. The other two days they have gen Ed classes. However in most BFA programs you are in studio 5 days a week. That’s 40% more time in acting or MT class for the BFA. Does that show up in a BFA’s performance? Yes I believe so. </p>

<p>It is a tough choice! You are doing the right things by asking questions and reviewing programs. Make sure you review sample schedules and the curriculums of different programs so you get an exact idea of what your days will be like at each school. Good luck!</p>

10

<p>Not to start an on-line fight, I am not a fan of NYU, BUT I also totally disagree with your total premise DramaMama0804!</p>

<p>There are many differing views on your statement; you will find many people saying that a complete actor must have intelligent knowledge of many different things in the world they live in, that psychology, sociology, history, science, current events, etc. etc. are very important to clearly and thoroughly understand the play you are performing in. Some believe knowing other areas is necessary to be a complete person and therefore a complete actor, that it makes you more interesting as a person and an actor, gives you something to discuss while networking, etc. Taking classes outside your major also allows you to “relax” which is also very important to an actors existence. </p>

<p>There is no one way to become a successful actor and acting ability is only one SMALL part of it (we all have seen poor acting from successful actors). You like your logic, that’s good for you, but please don’t phrase it like the only logic.</p>

11

<p>Dramamom0804, NYU is a BFA program (not a BA) and it offers a high level of training. </p>

<p>You are correct that in some cases, more studio hours could equate with better performance training, but one has to look at the curriculum as a whole. </p>

<p>If you compare total studio hours at NYU to total studio hours at comparable BFA programs, you will not find much of a difference. The difference is in the scheduling.</p>

12

<p>It’s great that you are excited about so many things! That will serve you well in life.</p>

<p>I agree that your list of what you want is really long, and you’ll have to make some choices, but really everyone does. Look at the spirited discussion on the Ithaca thread - it shows that you can have just as strong feelings about location and the vibe of a school as well as about anything else. </p>

<p>I would recommend making a list of 3-5 really important characteristics that you see yourself needing in college. You’ve listed a few already: balanced combination of theatre and academics; opportunities to do MT without having to major in it; and maybe some geographical considerations. Schools will start standing out in your mind as they fit those needs. You’ll be able to eliminate schools that don’t meet those criteria pretty easily, and you’ll feel less overwhelmed. </p>

<p>I’m guessing you’ll have a mix of BAs and BFAs on your list. Lots of people do - because they want time to make up their minds, because they could see themselves at either one, and because the differences aren’t as stark as you might assume. So make your list based on schools as a whole, not so much the degrees themselves.</p>

<p>Your initial list is pretty good - I am impressed. I do think a few might come off, as people have already mentioned, such as Fordham for not doing musicals, for example. I don’t think Sarah Lawrence is very MT focused, although I’m sure there are the kinds of classes and lessons you say you are looking for. Northwestern and Muhlenberg are great BA choices from what you have already posted.</p>

<p>Definitely look at how Acting and MT interact, at each and every school. My D visited Wagner, and she felt that MT very much overshadows Acting, too much for her taste, but it might be all right for you and your needs. Look at the online posted curriculum for any school you are interested in - there is a ton of information out there, and you can chart out a possible 4-year plan for yourself pretty easily. That is helpful in deciding where to apply and also in making your final decision among acceptances.</p>

<p>My D built a list of BAs with strong training and BFAs with strong academics, and she ended up with really great choices - in the end she has been very happy with her school (in a BFA combined with Honors College, at Adelphi University - which I don’t really recommend to you because they do virtually no musicals there). I do think fishbowl is right, that in terms of intensive studio training, there is only so much time in the day, and someone who spends more time in academic classes does give up some theatre “intensity.” But on the other hand, that can appeal to certain people and be how they want to spend their college years, and how they want to be educated. Life is long, and as she says, you can always pursue more training or graduate work afterwards.</p>

13

<p>I agree with both amtc and NJTheatreMom’s posts (10 & 11) above. I agree with amtc about how there is more to being an actor than acting training. Worldly knowledge can be very useful in this field. </p>

<p>Also as NJTheatreMom writes, with regard to NYU, I also thought the same thing that it is not “less” training at NYU because studio is three days per week and not five. Studio time is from 9 to 6 three days per week at Tisch and academics and theater studies on the other two days. But at some other BFA program, a student may have studio training a certain number of hours per day spread over five days and academic classes on some of those days as well. To compare accurately, you need to add up the total number of hours in conservatory training and hours in academic classes and not days of the week.</p>

14

<p>I cross posted with EmmyBet. Great post!</p>

<p>That reminds me, the OP may want to look into the BA at Brandeis.</p>

15

<p>Sorry if it seemed like I meant daily training in a BFA is the only way to go, and that I miscategorized NYU. You are right; it is a BFA but I have it set in my mind as a BA because of the number of hours in studio.
I didn’t mean to sound as if getting a BFA is the only way to become an actor. I was just responding to the OP question about doing acting, MT and gen eds. There are programs where you can do all three, but you will be spending less time in each than a student who is just doing acting as an example.
Also we have looked at the numbers of hours and classes and not just the number of days and that is why I suggested reviewing sample schedules. This seems to be a really concrete way to see how you will be spending your time as a student.
I almost added a comment earlier about study in other areas rounding you out and enhancing you as an actor, but decided not to as the OP seemed to have that idea already and I was trying to show the other side… that the BFA in one discipline does allow you more time to specialize. You may take specialized classes in stage combat, acting for film, clowning or mime, style work or other classes in directing or tech that could help you get work. My D got one job because she has had some training in stage combat. There were 20 girls in a line and they said “Who has stage combat experience?” and the ones that did were hired.
It is possible for actors to study literature, history and the social sciences outside of school on their own to enhance that aspect of their education and to broaden their minds. I think it is harder to study acting or voice or dance, aside from rehearsing, on their own. I was just trying to make the point that the additional training in a single discipline BFA creates a performer who is more of a specialist, and that is something to be considered when selecting your training.
Sorry if I didn’t explain it well…</p>

16

<p>Again, not to argue, just to correct misinformation - my daughter is a senior at Northwestern and she has had all those classes and more - stage combat, clowning/circus, auditioning, tech, women in comedy, etc. (Not sure what style work is.) Because they are on a quarter system their schedule allows for 12 - 15 classes each school year (Sept-June), allowing for plenty of “specialization.” Oh and it is a non-audition BA program. </p>

<p>As an aside, any actor will be training for a lifetime, so any specialization they might miss in college is easily taken after graduation.</p>

17

<p>dramamom…at NYU/Tisch, you can take all of those specialized classes you just mentioned such as stage combat, acting for film, clowning, directing, tech, and so on while in the BFA program. You can even do an entire year or semester in a studio of acting for film if you want.</p>

<p>Also, the hours in studio at NYU/Tisch compare well to many BFA programs if you examine it closely.</p>

18

<p>I agree with MomCares about adding specialty training – or any other type of acting skills, whether it is voice, movement, etc. – after college, no matter whether you are in a conservatory or a BA program. There are coaches, classes available for this. It’s not as if acting training exists only in BFA programs, so that if you don’t attend one of these schools or you didn’t get to take every single class you might have wanted to in college that you’re stuck for life without getting additional training…</p>

19

<p>I have a diametrically opposed view to drama mom about the availability of general education classes in college vs. on your own. There is only one opportunity in life to get an undergraduate education, when you are in a classroom learning with your peers – and by that I mean age and intellectual level. Yes, there are continuing education courses one can always take, but having taken some myself, the demands in terms of rigor and expectations for learning and achievement are so below a college course. You can take in knowledge, but you are not being required to produce the way a college course requires you to, so in my opinion, the thinking and writing skills are not being honed the way they would be in a college classroom, and those are abilities that carry one forward in life. A well-trained mind is one that has the flexibility to adapt and grow throughout the course of a life.</p>

20

<p>Yup, we can go on and on about what college is all about, and the broad spectrum of theatre training. I think the only absolute is what the OP has already said she suspects - that you can’t get it all in one place, in four years. You’re going to make choices. This isn’t necessarily negative. And everyone in life makes choices based on their particular circumstances.</p>

<p>I have a friend who has the same graduate training as I do. She went right after college, while I waited 5 years and then went (sort of like “adult ed”?). We talk all the time about how she’ll never know what it would have been like to have 5 years of work experience before getting her professional training, and I’ll never know what it was like to build my knowledge directly from college, and to have had those 5 years working at a more professional level. Both experiences were valuable and good. You just can’t do both.</p>

<p>I do agree with SDonCC that college is a one-time opportunity to be where you can do foundational learning with your peers in a structured and contained way. I would prefer that for most young people, and I, too, lean toward building some essential academic skills at this time of life. But we all have stories, for better or worse, of people who have done this unconventionally. Either what they wanted to learn was not academic foundations (such as getting as much theatre training as possible!) or they wanted life experience in a different way. I know kids who are absolutely unsuited to classroom learning, and some who just can’t seem to tolerate living in a campus environment. We all know people who made great use of adult learning opportunities later - both in exploring academic subjects and getting professional training.</p>

<p>The wonderful thing is that there are so many schools and options out there, and that the theatre field is still open to many different paths. Kids who are considering other career options are so locked into one sequence that they have to commit to for years and years with no flexibility - and no better guarantee of success (whatever that really means). I think theatre kids are lucky!</p>

<p>It’s exciting that this field has such an opportunity for lifelong learning, for late bloomers, for people who prefer completely different learning environments, and dozens of other options. Actually, one of the reasons we were less thrilled about my D’s school - because it’s a local school with lots of commuters and non-traditional students (meaning adult returning students and people who take longer to graduate) and we wondered if it would have the right “college” vibe that way - has been really quite enriching for my D. Her program is fundamentally regular college kids on a 4-year schedule, but she’s meeting people experiencing a broad variety of learning and career pathways. She is getting a great perspective on how life is full of surprises and tough choices, and how the long-term results can be mysterious and really quite wonderful.</p>

<p>Worrying about whether a school “has it all” is often a perfect recipe for giving up a school that has things that really matter to you, even if they have some limitations. Faith is a really important word in this whole college - and growing up - process, and no less so in this particular field.</p>