<p>
[quote]
However, there is no doubt that the school’s aid structure when weaker (varies by applicant) hurts it in its competition with the likes of Cornell, Penn, Columbia, Hopkins and Berkeley for cross admits. I would not personally tell a middle class student to pass on substantial aid to attend Chicago over these schools given their common reputation as research universities.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Uchicagoalum, what about prestige??? And pardon me, but where is the evidence that UChicago gives less aid than Penn or Hopkins? Let's not obfuscate the discussion. </p>
<p>UNEG, </p>
<p>1) what is added back is the portion of one's salary that goes into a 401K or similar program, not the asset balance. I always found this provision particularly unfair, as penalizes those of us who have 401K retirement programs over those who have company funded retirement plans, especially defined benefit plans. To give an example of what I mean, if someone is making 100K per year and puts 10K into a 401K, their income for FA purposes is 100K. contrast that with a neighbor who makes 90K per year but whose company puts 10K per year into a defined contribution retirement account. His income for FA is 90K.</p>
<ol>
<li>) the Behnke quote is almost 10 years old. FA policy could have changed. I personally do not know, though, as my D only qualified for a small amount of loans.</li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks for all the wonderful ideas, ohio_mom and davnasca :) This brings up a point I had a question on, though: does the "UChicago Aid" portion of the financial aid letter <em>include</em> expected work-study earnings, or not? I had somehow assumed that it did, since most colleges consider that part of "financial aid" - but on the other hand, most colleges consider loans to be part of that as well.</p>
<p>As far as family stuff goes, unfortunately that's going to be a no-go. I'm pretty sure any significant extra will be spent toward on-time mortgage payments, kitchen tiling, windows that don't suck heat away, etc. - there's always something useful to do with money around here, trust me!</p>
<p>The meal plan thing sounds great, though (I keep meaning to learn how to cook. I'll do it this year, I swear!), and summer employment (if it's not already included in the estimate) would also definitely help. I also have about $8,000 of my own savings from my job. (The "family-money is separate from college-money, because we all need it" thing works both ways.) A major thing for myself and, I've noticed, for other posters here, is whether or not we'll qualify for the Odyssey program - which for me would eliminate the $6k-per-year of loans already in my estimate before the $20k-per-year extra I'd need.</p>
<p>Anyway, sorry for being a me-monster :-p But there's been some great discussion about how to afford this place, which I really like!</p>
<p>Thanks again!
~Ethan</p>
<p>P.S. For all of you who are in the same boat as me: Apply for scholarships. No, seriously. I never thought I'd win one of those big national ones... but it happened! And I'm no Poetic Essay Master (TM). Some of the big, scary national scholarships actually give awards to a lot more people than you'd think, so the pure odds of winning that might be scaring you off could actually be much better than you'd think.</p>
<p>UNEPgirl,</p>
<p>"1) ohio_mom, you mentioned earlier that "you have to add yearly 401k contributions BACK into your folks income." What exactly does this mean?"</p>
<p>Ok, when your mom does her taxes, 401k deductions she made are already deducted from her pay, so she is not taxed on them. However, when you complete the beastly PROFILE, you have to add the yearly deducation (not the total in her account) back in. This my least favorite part of the whole process :-/. Although Chicago asked for retirement assets last year, it didn't seem to impart the grant portion of the finaid (it went up a little, in fact).</p>
<p>Since your folks have virtuously been paying down their mortgage, they will have equity in their home. Some of it is considered to an asset that may be borrowed against.</p>
<p>UNEPgirl,</p>
<p>2) In the Behnke quote, it said that "At Chicago, we decided to let students keep the full value of their outside awards and apply them to their loan or work expectation." The finaid website now seems to say differently . . . does anyone know if/why they changed this?? (<em>inserts angry face</em>) It would be really nice if it really was this way . . . </p>
<p>Check out the FAQ - looks like the outside aid still reduces the student portion of the contribution (loans, then work).</p>
<p>Office</a> of College Aid</p>
<p>davnasca and ethan,</p>
<p>when you are looking at your finaid letters, add up tuition, fees (health, orientation, and so on) and deduct from that the grant aid and loans, and scholarships you hold (note to Ethan - can the 20K be used over 4 years).That gives you the amount of money that you need to come up with.</p>
<p>The COA assumes almost 3k for books and personal expenses; my son has never spent that much. You will need to find your own food for Saturday dinner ... but that doesn't need to be that pricey. </p>
<p>House activities are subsidized - you will need to spend some money but not the full cost.Most of the kids in my son's house, at least, are pretty sensitive to the fact that not everyone has a big budget when doing their own actities. </p>
<p>Feed food is available at many student and university functions - this will be more important to you when you are off the freshman meal plan!</p>
<p>House study breaks include snacks which your RA provides. My son often makes homemade bread for his (made some for us over break - he's a good baker!).</p>
<p>Clothing - make sure you have a warm coat, gloves, boots. Don't worry about style until you are a 4th year and interviewing.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Don't worry about style until you are a 4th year and interviewing.
[/quote]
But do plan on a few hundred at least fall of 4th year. Can't tell you how much D spent the past two months - at least $600 - on nicer clothing. But it did pay off.</p>
<p>If you plan to pursue internships with consulting or Ibanking firms, you may need to invest in better clothes earlier.</p>
<p>Newmassdad:</p>
<p>The aid criteria by these schools differs. Sometimes Chicago will give you more, sometimes less. As a case in point, Hopkins recruited me heavily with merit aid since at the time of my application they were working hard to correct the pre-med imbalance in their UG body under new admissions leadership. Alternatively, Columbia (where I did not apply) had some retroactive funds rebate in conjunction with a national professional organization for children of alumni in public service positions who followed in their parents footsteps upon graduation. </p>
<p>But all in all, for fields where relative strength does not trickle down a lot to UGs like math or English, I would definitely tell students to follow the money amongst Cornell, Penn, Northwestern, Columbia, Hopkins, Berkeley and Chicago. All are great schools, and the differences amongst them mostly related to their cultures and locations. The prestige difference is nil for the majority of fields (although not all).</p>
<p>UCA, of course aid criteria vary from school to school, and different schools may emphasize recruitment of differing kinds of students at different times. So aid awards vary, especially when one factors in merit awards. This is not new. </p>
<p>
[quote]
The prestige difference is nil for the majority of fields (although not all).
[/quote]
I thought you preferred ivies? You even said "the Ivy connection will open doors." "I am merely noting that for <em>some</em> careers the Ivy name still matters " "To deny the shock value that Ivy League schools, along with Stanford, Oxford, and a few others have ..."</p>
<p>Now you discount the value of the "ivyness" of Columbia, Penn or Cornell? </p>
<p>And UCA, you don't think such intangibles as "fit" matter? Just auction to the highest bidder? (interesting idea, web based...never mind. It was tried and failed).</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I was merely responding to, and pardon me, but where is the evidence that UChicago gives less aid than Penn or Hopkins? I never implied this in the first place. I said, there is no doubt that the schools aid structure WHEN weaker (varies by applicant) hurts it. In aggregate, Chicago could give very well give more money than Penn or Hopkins on a per capita basis. I have no idea what the precise numbers are. I am merely addressing a fact raised earlier in the discussion about yield vis-à-vis the cross admit schools. At the end of the day, a student and his or her parents only care about their own financial situation. </p></li>
<li><p>Like I said, for some careers. The point has been belabored enough already. If you dont want you kid to go into something like sports management, so be it. </p></li>
<li><p>I don't buy the fit argument (core vs. electives, urban vs. rural, cold vs. warm, small vs. big, frat vs. non-frat). Even if a school only offers 5K a year over a competitor, I could not really see allowing the preferences of an 18 year old outside of substantive academic or professional ones to add up to 20K over college. All fine and well sending Johnny to Berkeley for engineering, but not just so he can live in California over Philadelphia.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Will the College Aid folks talk to parents about self-employment income/business valuation? I have a VERY small business (think under $5K) that has never turned a profit, but I wonder if they are assessing it at some larger amount.</p>
<p>There's a Business/Farm Supplement form that will duly record the value of your business. Although H tells me a business can only show a loss for 3 years straight for tax and/or FA purposes. Not really sure what this means.</p>
<p>His debt certainly came into the equation and helped with FA, even thought it was only business, not personal, debt.</p>
<p>"Will the College Aid folks talk to parents about self-employment income/business valuation? "</p>
<p>I would assume so - but I have no personal knowledge of this. If one of our clever UChicago posters doesn't have knowledge of this, be sure to try on the Financial Aid forum (if you haven't already).</p>
<p>Oops, cross-posted with mythmom ...</p>
<p>Thanks -- I'll ask over there!</p>
<p>ohio_mom: you are awesome. I'm so totally baking cookies for you (when I have time, eventually...this might be June...) and mailing them. Or...I dunno. They don't send too well through the DSL line, do they?</p>
<p>(oh, and everyone else is awesome, too. I just can't commit to baking you guys cookies, yet.)</p>
<p>Anyhow, for me, the main problem is Chicago's definition of "demonstrated need." My family earns around 95,000, so a 40,000 EFC is definitely on the high end (well, if you include the "proposed" federal loans, then it's 35,000), although it could probably be possibly painfully managed.</p>
<p>But I won't be getting any money from my parents for college. So. I'm screwed.</p>
<p>For current U of C kids: how much subsidized federal loans did you guys get? Mine maxed out in both categories (Perkins and Stafford), but I'm thinking if my EFC is so big, I probably don't even qualify for that much federal.</p>
<p>For the parents/responsible/clear-headed types: what's a reasonable limit for taking out private loans? (I'm thinking right now that 140,000 in private loans after four years is completely outside of the realm of "reasonable")</p>
<p>Thanks everyone!</p>
<p>SomethingSilly,</p>
<p>"But I won't be getting any money from my parents for college. So. I'm screwed."</p>
<p>Nope. You're terribly disappointed (and I don't blame you - I wasn't allowed to even apply to my top school because of money, and it annoys me to this day). </p>
<p>So .... what you do is go somewhere undergrad that you can (sort of) afford ... and save Chicago for graduate or professional school. Remember, due to financial aid structuring and/or parental finances, there are going to be plenty of really bright kids in the same boat as you. And, when you have your first child, you start the college fund. </p>
<p>Reasonable private loans for undergrad would depend on the profession you are considering. I wouldn't like to see an I-banking type exceed 35-40K, or a future teacher exceed 25K total (including federal). The only situation I could see for exceeding this would be if you have very good prospects for inheritance in the near future (or a grandparent that will contribute while still alive). I have been yelled at for suggesting this - but if I am ever lucky enough to be a grandmother, I know I would want to contribute if I can. </p>
<p>And ... thanks for the virtual cookies!</p>
<p>if my parents combined only make 37k/year can i even concider going to u chicago?!</p>
<p>alexsmol,</p>
<p>If you have mountains of assets hidden somewhere it would complicate things. If not .... the new scholarship targets YOU. The anonymous donor wanted kids that don't have much in the way of financial resources to be able to attend. We don't have a lot of info on how it works because it is just going into effect. </p>
<p>A lot of the discuss on this thread has revolved around the expectation that parental assets (if available) can be borrowed against for college ... and the parental sticker shock that ensues. Attending any college will require some financial pain your and your family's part. But remember that pricey colleges with reasonable financial resources (and a big old 100k scholarship fund for low to moderate income students) may be a better bet than less pricey schools with less money to give.</p>
<p>SS, I don't think ANY private loans are appropriate for undergrad education if taken out by the student:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>You can't imagine how difficult loan payments can be, and how limiting they are for one's choices of job, career, lifestyle and such during the post-graduation period. This is true for loans of any kind. And at this point, you can't predict whether you will be interested in, or prepared for, a high paying profession, or drawn to one not noted for its pay levels. Or worse yet, interested in grad or professional school.</p></li>
<li><p>But private loans are far worse than federal loans. They have none of the flexibility for payback, deferral during graduate school and such. Their interest rates are higher, too.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Your situation reminds me of my own. I had parents with limited interest in paying for college. Essentially, they told me they'd pay the amount to go to a local state college. If I wanted more than that, I needed to do it on my own. I applied for, and won, a 4 year Army ROTC scholarship. But this was during the Viet Nam war period, so this was clearly a gamble regarding where I would end up after graduation. Fortunately, the war was winding down when I graduated, so I was sent to Germany (that's the good news. The bad news is that I was sent to what many would consider the worst possible kind of unit. Oh well). </p>
<p>So sad as it may seem, save your borrowing power for your post grad years. You will be thankful you did.</p>
<p>Alexismol,</p>
<p>Yes. But the U will expect you to work and save during the summer and probably during the school year.</p>
<p>D2 was one of the many who had to turn down U of C 'cause of the stinky/nonexistent finaid. And we fall into that $75k plus group where it seems the new scholarship program will not help at all. Yet here I am still reading the threads as (1) I still love U of C, and (2) they are now sending S stuff in the mail and Ted O'Neill's letters are seductive indeed. Just reading the course catalog is seductive.</p>
<p>But ditto the loan advice. Our efc was computed at $43k and the rest was loans and work study. We figured at this point in time, had D attended, and she is finished her third semester at her scholarship school, we'd be $100k in debt and only not even halfway through! Every time I do the math I know we made the right choice.</p>
<p>D is an engineering student loading up on bio (med school maybe?), physics (loves it) and also studio art (painting, drawing and sculpture). Chicago doesn't even have studio art. Anyway, D's engrg physics advisor has told her that based on her current record of gpa (3.9999999 - she has one A minus), and summer research jobs, she looks like a good candidate for a PHD program Chicago is starting in Biophysics and she could most likely go for free, with the usual stipends and funding that accompany such. She is now excited that she may wind up at U of C anyway, and not be $200k in debt on arrival (actually it would be us in debt, but anyway).</p>
<p>Some of what I've read here leads me to think that the graduate programs at Chicago hold sway in importance to the University by mile. This is what I was told two years ago when she was applying, ie, Chicago is a place to go to grad school. If they take you for ug, you are welcome, but you are expected to pay for it.</p>
<p>fwiw - our efc at Rice was $20k. go figure.</p>