<p>@christian612 I think that maybe in remedial classes (like math 10 or 50 at my school), half the people drop. But after you get into the classes that are UC transferable, students seem a lot more serious because they know what they are working towards. I’m taking a Calculus class right now and almost everyone is still here.</p>
<p>and also…as much as i hate to admit this, community college students get too much financial aid. Pell Grant rewards for University and CC students are the same, even though the cost to go to a CC is tiny tiny fraction of what it costs to go to a university. I would not mind getting some money cut from my Pell Grant if it meant more classes and student services.</p>
<p>I think that instead of cutting the schools budget, they should just kick the people who fall below a 2.2 GPA. If you fall below that, you are clearly not serious about going to school. I think this alone would save a lot of money.</p>
<p>CCC ought to cost $300/unit with no financial aid, except loans. If the student transfers or earns an AA, $270 for each unit earned would be refunded.</p>
<p>This would instantly get rid of the time wasters.</p>
<p>@nick no financial aid seems harsh. Getting rid of BOGG and making students pay for it with their Pell or cal grant seems more appropriate.</p>
<p>You’re just thinking of the fees, poserbruin. The COA is much higher than those fees because they include housing, food, transportation, books, and personal expenses. The real COA for a CCC can be anywhere from about $10k to $15k depending on the area it is located. You cannot receive more financial aid than the COA so those with 0 EFCs receiving a full Pell Grant at a CCC are not receiving any more aid than s/he deserves. Just as no student standing is more deserving of being admitted to a UC than another, no student at any type of college is more deserving of Pell Grant than another as long as all meet SAP.</p>
<p>Do remember that if a student truly is doing horribly and does not meet SAP, then they will lose their financial aid privileges. Also remember that Pell Grant is now capped at 900%. It is not nearly as abused as you’re claiming it is because of measures in place to stop the abuse when it becomes obvious the student is not performing well.</p>
<p>Also note that Pell Grant is proposed to be lowered, but that won’t affect CCCs at all. Pell Grant is federal money. The CCCs are funded by state money. If you want more money for CCCs and other colleges in California, then you should propose to have Cal Grant cut as a program. That would free up a lot of money. But seeing as that’s the only way many of us who had to attend CCCs due to various financial reasons are able to afford CSUs and UCs, then that would do more harm than good, wouldn’t it?</p>
<p>THATguy90:
Have you not read any CCC’s handbook at all? There do exist rules and procedures for dealing with the issues being complained about. You can be dismissed for poor academic performance. A 2.2, however, is only .2 below the minimum GPA needed for the UCs. It is .2 higher than what is needed for the CSUs.</p>
<p>Also note that Cal Grant A cannot be used at CCCs. Cal Grant B can only have its “living assistance” portion used. There is no tuition/fee assistance from Cal Grant for CCCs so students would be left with only Pell as an option.</p>
<p>nick_scheu:
That would also get rid of most of the serious students who cannot qualify for those loans, max out federal loans early before one was able to even transfer, create further debt since most of those loans would not be subsidized, and just generally screw things up further.</p>
<p>I don’t think that getting rid of financial aid would make the situation better. A whole lot of students get the BOG waiver that allows them to go to school. If I didnt have that, I probably wouldn’t have ever gotten where I am. I also don’t think it would make sense to raise the price so high and then refund. At what point would you refund that money?
I def think both high school applicants and transfers are equally deserving. People who took the CC route usually deal with hard circumstances, and seniors have to go above what is required. It all works out in the end.</p>
<p>Get rid of financial aid? OIC, I guess financially disadvantaged students and minorities are out then! Us damn Colored/poor people, taking all the states budget and trying to get an education! Someone better kick us out for all the true WASP Americans can get their education!</p>
<p>Lets give this country back to the real Americans!</p>
<p>Since when does being a URM mean one is poor and needs financial assistance? That’s like saying the ground is wet so it must be raining. Being poor does not mean you are a URM either.</p>
<p>Statistically speaking, URMs are usually more financially challenged than the MAJORITY of this country (the majority being middle class White Americans). Nor did I say all poor people are URMs. I was putting them in the same category as people needing financial aid. Typically, URMs and poor students are usually the most in need of financial help. </p>
<p>Kender, which neighborhoods are usually in great need of funding and extra professional help because of poor test scores? Eh?</p>
<p>Common knowledge folks. You don’t need to be an anthropology/economics major to understand SIMPLE facts as such. People in here are so naive!</p>
<p>And saying URMs and WHITE economically challenged students are undeserving of financial aid is one of the most selfish and inane things that I have ever heard.</p>
<p>Get rid of financial aid? Sounds like rich white republican talk to me.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>My point exactly. We got some Tea Baggers in here?</p>
<p>Number of White people living in poverty: 21,922,000
Number of Black people living in poverty: 8,360,000
(U.S. Census Bureau, 1999)</p>
<p>1999 census:
White: 224,611
Black: 34,862</p>
<p>“Almost” HALF of African-Americans are in poverty. Is it safe to assume? Um, yes. Couldn’t find statics on other races though unfortunately. Maybe I can find some information on Natives and Hispanic persons somewhere else if I digged for it :)</p>
<p>In 2006, only 8.2 percent of whites were in poverty, compared to the 24.2 percent of African Americans; 20.6 percent of Hispanics</p>
<p>I’m sorry. But yes. This effects URMs more. K, case closed. Thanks for playing.</p>
<p>munaluna:
No offense, but get off the high horse and don’t take things so seriously. I was merely commenting that your post made it seem like there was a direct correlation between being a URM and being poor. That’s a wide sweeping generalization to make. One should never make such statements. It’s insulting to those who do not fit in it. And one should never assume either. You know what they say about assuming, right ;)?</p>
<p>You brought up issues that had nothing to do with why financial aid was being discussed and one user decided to say it should be eliminated. Letting your passions rule your judgment before assessing the entire situation properly can be a problem.</p>
<p>Besides, the only issue raised had nothing to do with poor students or URM. It had to do with students who have a poor academic performance and are receiving financial aid. Nothing to do with economic status or ethnicity. My initial post in this thread was to point out that those who are poor performers do lose financial aid and for the truly poor performers, they are academically dismissed. Every college that receives federal and state aid must have a SAP in place.</p>
<p>As a bit of friendly advice, a study that is less than 12 years old might be more helpful. Also citing where the study was from will add more credibility to your post. I honestly mean that as friendly advice and not as a snark (and although your “[e]h?” seemed to be filled with quite a bit of snarky intent, I am far more insulted you would assume being a URM means the URM is poor). When posting statistics and numbers, posting the original source is beneficial to all. Sharing knowledge and all that nonsense, you know? :)</p>
<p>In any case, note that I agree the idea of eliminating financial aid is a bad idea. I just think the issue raised in this thread about financial aid has nothing to do with URMs or low-income students. No need to get huffy at me for just pointing out the issue with your statement.</p>
<p>ITT: Dream act supporters…go jump off a bridge please</p>
<p>Is it just at El Camino, or does every other college experience this: First day, 50+ students show up to a class, many add from waitlist, professor not wanting to turn away ‘potential scholars.’ Now, 7 weeks into the semester, every one of my classes has >=15% seats empty. The first week the classes were so full that some people had to stand!</p>
<p>: [</p>
<p>^ People dropping classes that much only happens in easy classes like math 10 at my school.</p>
<p>^</p>
<p>unfortunately I’ve seen it in nearly every class I’ve taken, both semesters so far. Last semester, I remember how funny it was that some of my classes were down to ~20 students, even on the final exam day.</p>
<p>@briceies I felt the same way when I first started, but after awhile I stop noticing/caring. Personally I like that people drop because it opens up parking spaces.</p>
<p>I see it too. My philosophy class had a full class with no adds allowed, only to now have 1/4 of it empty. Such a waste. Why even bother? You can’t keep your aid so it seems like a big hassle to register, attend for a week and then stop going. Just don’t go altogether. And not to be rude, but it really does drive me insane when I hear people I know talking about failing a class or retaking a failed class, only to get a D. How hard is it? I’m talking about people with little to no responsibility outside of school, not single parents etc. Community college can be challenging, but if you put in more than an hour of effort outside of the class room a week, you can manage.</p>
<p>@natjan Very true. Excluding real family issues, there really isn’t any reason why everyone at CC shouldn’t be able to get at least a 2.5. Also spending more than 3.5 years to complete an AA is ridiculous.</p>