I’ve thought through a post like this so many times, I hope I didn’t post already somewhere else around here (probably have mentioned it a time or two in other threads).
How do you and your future college students balance the overall fit of a college vs. the debt load the student would have to carry to attend there? If your student could go for free to School A, but there’s an issue with the school that makes it iffy as to whether the student will fit in well for 4 years, is it still preferable to go there rather than School B where you’d have to come up with around $10,000 each year (before loans) even if B seems like a much better fit? Then there are other factors like distance, ease of getting home for holidays (proximity to airports/train stations/etc…), and other things to consider.
These decisions are challenging, but we’re blessed to have such options so I don’t mean to complain. Just want to know how you help your kids through that thought process. Thanks!
@iahomeschoolmom this is so tough. the school that my D18 will be attending will most not be the cheapest option. It’s so tempting to go with the money, however, if the student is really not a good fit for the school, will they want to transfer their Soph year. If so, it’s a lot harder to get a scholarship at that point. I think the decision has to be made on a case by case basis.
Mine decided that she was for sale to the highest bidder. Not knowing which school would be the highest, she looked at every school that she applied to and figured out how she would make it work for her in order for it to be a better fit. It ended up that two schools tied in final cost. She knew people going to both schools. One was close to family and the other closer to home. It ended up being the food served in the cafeteria that was the tie breaker. She ended up at the closer to home school that turned out to be an excellent fit.
You really need to talk with your kid to make sure that trivial stuff doesn’t get amplified into a big deal (is there really a difference between a university of 7,0000 kids and 10,000 kids? Likely not. Especially if the larger school has a law school in a different location, a med school in a different location, and a business school which counts for enrollment but has its own separate campus). Kids fetishize size (parents too) and make all sorts of bizarre conclusions. You really need to talk with your kid to make sure that the stuff that “will be a bad fit” is real, and not based on some internet post from three years ago.
And the flip side- you need to make sure that you are prioritizing stuff that counts- the right academic program, the right rigor, top notch facilities (whether for performing arts, nanotechnology research, or archaeological fieldwork.)
To me- we told the kids we’d pay more for more. More money for more rigor, more academics. That’s what was important to us. We were not willing to pay more for less- i.e. better social opportunities, nicer frat houses, more free towels in the workout areas. To us- that’s what becoming a grownup is- you want a fancy health club? Great- you pay for it. You need nice restaurants all the time? Fantastic- get a job with an expense account where your boss wants you to take clients out to fancy meals.
We weren’t paying for better surfing. Just not in the budget. But show me that you’re planning to major in mechanical engineering and College A has the top research facility in the country (where everyone- even a freshman can get a part time job, internship, or research position) and you’ve got my attention.
More for more. That was my mantra. So talk to your kid and figure out if more IS more in your case.
You have figured out your hard maximum price that would not compromise parental retirement or younger kids’ college, and not require too much student loans, right?
I’d need more details to form an opinion. Generally, I agree with @blossom - pay more for more. But “fit” covers such a huge range of things from things that would be to many people inconsequential to major issues. If you have any doubts as to the range of ideas about “fit” - just look for the long thread about colleges that moved up or down on people’s lists after a tour and the one about silly reasons a kid hated a school. Some people think ugly buildings are a huge issue; on one thread someone’s kid decided she hated the shoes of the tour guide enough to not apply there. As a parent, I wouldn’t pay $10k a year more - or $40k total - if my kid explained how much prettier the school’s campus was for example.
Are there things worth paying $40k a year more for? Of course. But general “fit”… meh without further details.
For both of my D’s, fit meant the right program at the right location, with a talented pool of students with strong academics. Yes, NYU was without doubt one of the most expensive options, but I was certain in both cases that it would be where both my D’s would thrive best.
We were prepared to pay the money needed and did not need to take out any loans. In the end my older D is back at NYU with a full tuition scholarship for her MBA and my younger D got a half tuition scholarship there towards her masters in art education. I doubt either would have gotten that money had they not gone to NYU for undergrad, so it worked out to our benefit in the end.
For instance, you could get access to some degrees with classes taught by Harvard profs through Harvard Extension School at a fraction of the cost (no, it is not the traditional undergrad experience by any means) and the University of London offers extremely cheap degrees led by the LSE where the exams that determine your marks are as rigorous as those that LSE students.
But you’re not going to be involved in cutting edge research through distance/online (though many publics are research powerhouses).
And in some fields, being in a cohort of bright motivated peers or a ferment of ideas in a particular field really does matter to your education and future while in other fields, they’re really more of a luxury, and someone who is driven, bright, and disciplined would be just as successful regardless.
Plus big schools would have all sorts of types and tribes and probably honors colleges as well.
There are some schools that are just too expensive even if they are the dream school, have the perfect professors, the best views, the most delicious ice cream. Those are out.
There are probably some that you can easily afford but they are not special, don’t have the right majors, are too hot or too far. Those are out.
Now you have a group that could work. Some are more expensive, some are closer to home, some have a club or activity that your are really interested in, and you have to weigh all the factors and come up with the best balance. Some people think a few ranking point is important, others think saving a few dollars is important. I don’t think there is one answer.
Private with scholarship / 5k per yr contribution (however he wanted to pay for that - loans, savings, work,etc.)
Private, no scholarship / 10k per yr contribution (loans and work / savings)
Of course these choices came with a substantial difference in cost to us but we were willing to do this provided he had good reasons for his choices and had skin in the game. He loved option 3 for solid reasons (rigor, academic quality, small LAC feel, career placement, national alumni, etc.) I actually showed him the real cost of debt (including lost opportunity cost of investing, compounding out to age 65, etc.) After all that, he still wanted option 3 so we went with it and he is having a fantastic experience.
One will never know what would have happened with other choices. We’re very pleased with his decision and growth.
I don’t know the answer, but will be following along because I just know this will be a struggle for DD’19. For my DD’17, it happened that where she felt she fit, was also the cheapest, and the closest to home. It was the obvious choice and is going wonderfully.
I have a feeling DD’19 will feel “fit” at one of the more expensive of our choices. And she won’t think a savings of thousands of dollars should come between her and her first choice. Among our list, there is not a big difference in quality of education so in my mind choosing the cheaper one makes sense. I’m hoping after she does visits, has her ACT score, and makes some decisions regarding possible majors, a choice will become clear.
Well that’s not a really a fair choice, as there are more than two or three schools out there. If you can’t quite afford B and you don’t fit well at A then maybe keep applying. Depending on where you live, what kind of a student you have and what your warchest looks like there are probably still options out there with rolling admissions that you can still look at. Don’t give up.
Also, depending on what aspect of the school or student is concerning you, don’t over-think that whole Fit thing. This isn’t women’s jeans where you have to keep trying them on until you find the one that works for you. Rather, schools are living organisms that reflect who is on campus and what they find important. There are groups for every interest from football to line dancing, Greek houses to Greek studies, and all points from College Republicans to College Democrats to (my favorite) the Anarchist Student Union ??? Anyway, unless it’s a very specific sort of place like Reed or Hillsdale, or your student is a very specific sort of person, you’re going to find that universities are full of people, most of whom are not you, where everyone had to find a place and people to be with. Be open and curious and it usually can work just fine.
That said, we avoided some of this by doing the financials up front (or giving enough financial info that our kids could do NPCs up front) so that unaffordable schools weren’t under consideration. Even before applying we knew what we wouldn’t pay for, and with four kids we didn’t have the luxury of digging much deeper for the oldest. She knew it and we didn’t really get too far into any places where the money wasn’t realistic. (Any time I find my college kid is exasperating I just have to step back and remind myself how much maturity and discipline she showed during the college hunt and thank my lucky stars.)
As others have said, it depends so heavily on the specifics that is impossible to answer your question without more information.
What is it that makes School A an “iffy” fit? if the student want to be an engineer but there is no engineering school, then that is a problem. Is it a very liberal school for a preppy kid (or conversely a preppy school for a crunchy kid)? Is it a much lower level, commuter school for a super smart kid that wants the living at college with other smart people experiences? At a very few schools, these could be legitimate issues. Or is it more of big vs small or “just like it better”? To me, those are less important in that it most (not all, but most) kids bloom where planted.
Where would the money come from? If it is a $10K per year difference, would the student major in a subject that would likely result in good, high paying internships? Would they be willing (and have the ability) to be an RA in exchange for free (or reduced) room and board? Work during the school year if at the more expensive school? That is not an insurmountable amount of money if the student takes on some loans and works.
Many of us have kids that could not go to their “top choice” due to cost. All three of mine faced that. We did not make them choose the least expensive, but also not the full pay private. Two of the three ended up loving their choices. One did not, but it was not because of fit. He found his tribe and was happy with that aspect of the school.
Define fit. If the scenarios are a student who DE throughout high school and plans a major where as an entering freshman will run out of all in major class offering in 3 semesters or a school only offering a minor in a desired major or not offering the area at all, then those options are poor fits that probably should never have even been considered real options. If the scenario is that the student is a fan of x’s whatever but school y offers better courses and opportunities, than how much does the whatever really matter.
Fwiw, I agree with @StPaulDad. There are usually more valid options than not.
None of mine picked the least expensive but we were fairly accurate in knowing what we would be expected to pay so the difference between the most expensive was within $5000. I think I would have balked at a $10000 difference.
I think there are very few of us that have never had to make our desires fit into our budget. I guess the question here is exactly what is our budget. There has been considerable disagreement between myself and my family, friends and acquaintances regarding how much of our budgets should be comprised of debt, but I regard this as a personal decision that everyone has to choose for themselves. The problem I see with using a budget based on debt is that we focus on the characteristics of what we are buying but mostly forget about how we are going to have to live in the future with a lifestyle that includes repaying the borrowed money.
Well – I had my athlete turn down a full scholarship to a school because of this; BUT we have as a family a top level we are will to spend (and a certain debt that we don’t believe student/we should have) as well. Oh edited to add by ‘fit’ I mean something major has to trump finances assuming disparate choices there.
The balance of savings, income and debt is going to be unique to each family, but everyone should consider a few things:
Debt in general is something that has to have been embraced or avoided, or at least considered, much earlier than at college time. When you bought your first home did you take out a big mortgage right away or save for years to make a bigger down payment? Are you a car loan/lease person or a full pay used car household? Do you pay your credit card off each month? I know my comfort level with debt is pretty tiny, but others wear it like an old sweater. Know yourself and your capacity to pay it off before casually thinking it'll suddenly be OK at the age of 55.
Getting old is expensive and pretty inevitable. Getting sick isn't as inevitable but it's crazy expensive. Either way, debt for parents can be perilous because of the looming loss of income at retirement. That's a short road when you're past middle age, so I'm totally with you on pumping the brakes here.
The number of kids can determine how careful you have to be with the first one so the later ones aren't left with an empty sack. There are horror stories every year of angry fourth children who felt betrayed by the generosity/poor planning shown to their older siblings. You don't have to be completely equal, but you probably have to be able to explain your choices, so be disciplined in your thinking.
So many of these responses are extremely helpful! I appreciate all of you taking the time to share your thought processes and how you traveled this road either personally or with your children.
I was afraid to be more specific about what I mean by “fit” because it kind of doesn’t matter. The things that matter to one student don’t matter to the next and vice versa. Having said that, I guess I’ll go ahead and say that this daughter is very serious about her Christian faith and is looking for the right school where she will get a good education in her intended major (some version of major/minor combination between math, computer science, and Spanish or linguistics) yet will also find spiritual support and encouragement that won’t clash with her beliefs. The cheapest option (free if she is named a NMF as we expect in the next few weeks) seems fairly conservative and that works fine for her (dorm rules regarding men/women, dry campus, things like that) but their denomination doesn’t line up with ours very well (I really don’t want this to turn into an argument about Christianity and who’s right/who’s wrong - that’s why I didn’t bring it up in the first place). Imagine a protestant going to a devout Catholic school or something like that. It’s close and maybe would work out fine, but it also might just cause 4 years of difficult friction for her since they do require Bible classes and chapel (not a problem for her to have Bible classes and chapel, but since she doesn’t really agree with their denomination she might struggle with the perspective from which the classes are taught). She’s not looking at at Catholic school, btw, that was just an example.
Anyway, sometimes I read the forums and it feels like there’s a belief that graduating with the least debt possible is what matters THE MOST and we would be ridiculous to turn down a full-ride option and choose debt instead (not mountains of debt, but probably in the neighborhood of $20,000-25,000 by the time she graduates) in order to get a school that fits her better. So I wanted to try to understand how people navigate that choice. I’ve gotten a lot of help there, thank you all so much! She has narrowed her list to 5 schools where she has applied and been accepted. Now, we’re just waiting for final financial aid packages to come in so we know exactly what we’re looking at. There are two scholarship competitions she’ll participate in soon that might help level the playing field, so we’ll see how that goes.
