ballet parents: can you help with SI questions?

College Majors Dance Major
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<p>Hi, PK, and thanks for your thoughts. I originally posted this in January of 2007, and it's become a non-issue since. :) My d did an academic study abroad program that summer instead of a SI, and is now enrolled as a freshman at a school (W & M) without a strong ballet program. She's only been there a week, but she's thinking about a dance minor, though the concentration will be in modern.</p>

<p>I appreciate the referral, though I think that board has changed its name - at any rate, I'm familiar with it and did use it as a resource when my d was wondering about SIs. I think it's easier to get a straight answer about many things on CC.</p>

<p>I was a bit surprised to see this come up again today, but it got me to wondering - weren't the mods going to create a forum for dance majors? I still think there's a need for one. So I'm hopeful!</p>

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<p>LOL, frazzled I am glad to see all worked out for your D. </p>

<p>We are getting ready for my D to audition for SI's this year. She auditioned only for SAB last year and did not get in (it was their last on-site audition date and she admitted she was nowhere near her best that day, however Kay Mazzo herself did the audition!). </p>

<p>Anyway, she does not want to audition for SAB this year so we have compiled the following list:
Joffrey
NYSSSA
CPYB (only requires pics and application)
Chatauqua (will probably audition by video, have to talk to the SO about this)</p>

<p>Anyway, finances are a big deal to us. SI's are very expensive as you all know so the flexibility of Joffrey is a nice thing and so is the low cost of NYSSSA. She is most interested in Chatauqua though.</p>

<p>My D is 14, 4'10" and about 70 ish lbs, very few curves. I am hoping her easy "liftability" will work in her favor. She wants an SI w/ a lot of partnering opportunities, classes in modern and preferably ballroom as well (Joffrey has swing and acting), and LOTS of class time.</p>

<p>Any tips that you guys can give would be SOOOO helpful! Thanks.</p>

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<p>My D attended a number of SIs but none of the ones your D is considering this summer. I can tell you what I have heard about the programs you listed.</p>

<p>The Joffrey is known for having VERY large classes. This may have changed in the last year or two but I would check the class size. Unfortunately, many programs have larger classes for the younger students.</p>

<p>CPYB is known as the “boot camp” SI - not very nurturing. This can be hard on the young dancer who has more caring instruction at her home studio. I think they limit their class size to fewer than 20 students, which is a plus. </p>

<p>Chatauqua is considered an excellent program and probably as selective w/ acceptance as SAB.</p>

<p>Few SIs offer partnering for young dancers. Walnut Hill is a program my D attended when she was 12 and had partnering - that summer they had a sufficient number of young male students. Walnut Hill is expensive but they do offer scholarships.</p>

<p>Good luck. I think SIs are a wonderful way for dancers to spend the summer. Their benefit is far beyond improving dance technique.</p>

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<p>MomOf3 - My S attended NYSSSA this past summer. The program is very good and they had about 20 boys this year. Both groups (younger and older) did do partnering although the older group did more. Feel free to PM me if you want more info.
Great to have this finally!</p>

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<p>Hey PK--</p>

<p>As always, you have the best insight. DD is flourishing at SLC with a more academic concentration, but still loving ballet (just like Rahm Emanuel). Second daughter is off to college next year. I hope all is fantastic with you and yours. Yikes, how the time flies! Miss you.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the advice everyone. My D's home instructor is a very tough cookie and a lot of the girls from her studio have been to CPYB and loved it. </p>

<p>I talked to my D in the car last night and we agreed on quite a few points concerning this. She doesn't want to go anywhere that is not very selective or at least a tough program. We can probably only afford 1 summer away (unless she is lucky enough to get into NYSSSA) and we need to make it count. If not she will just do privates for the summer. </p>

<p>She is not worried about big class sizes, she is kind of used to it where she is now although big there is 20 girls packed into a small room. </p>

<p>We both know this is the year for her to try for Chatauqua bc she is 14 and therefore eligible to audition for both festival and workshop. A principal dancer at the company she is in went to Chatauqua workshop a few years ago and highly recommends.</p>

<p>Worries she has are this: she is RAD trained and wonders how the classes at Joffrey may be different? Trying the SAB audition last year showed her how different the various ballet curriculums can be. Also, having heard NYSSSA prefers the slighter type of girls she worries that Joffrey might prefer more powerful body types. Any ideas?</p>

<p>Evasmom: My D's classmate (a boy) has been at NYSSSA the last 2 years. He seems to like it. I heard the majority of boys get good scholarships at SI's. Is that true?</p>

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<p>Momof3stars, yes, boys do often get good scholarships to SIs. There are fewer of them (i.e., boys in ballet) and programs do all they can to encourage boys to continue in ballet. Therefore, it is a very typical scenario for a less technically skilled boy to receive a significant scholarship over a more technically skilled girl. However, as they progress through the ranks (i.e., ages), the boys, too, are expected to be highly skilled before the scholarship dollars are handed out.</p>

<p>Chautauqua is a a very selective SI---primarily because there so few spots in the program, but its expected skill level is also quite high. It is a rigorous and highly sought after program for many reasons.</p>

<p>However, do keep in mind that 'selectivity' in and of itself is NOT the only criteria you and your daughter should rely upon when choosing an SI. SI experiences are best when you match the program with what the dancer needs at that particular time given her current training level and current training needs--along with the other criteria your family must consider, such as cost, duration, travel expenses, etc.</p>

<p>What program might be ideal of one dancer one year may not be ideal for her another year. Likewise, what program might be perfect for Susie, might not be perfect for Sarah. It is, therefore, important to look beyond the name (or letters :) ) of a program and the current ballet 'star' teachers and look more closely at the nature of the program itself, the type of curriculum it has put together, its longevity, its stability over the years, the size of the classes for your daughter's age group/skill level, how the kids are placed (strictly by age or is it by ability--which often looks like age, but isn't), the amount of down time the students have and how that will be occupied, the amount of freedom the students have when not dancing, etc.</p>

<p>There are many programs that are 'jewels' that do not garner the big hype of some of the better known ones. At age 14, your daughter is really beginning her SI participation. The auditioners are still looking for potential at that age. So, spread your net wide and take a look at many programs. Don't get hung up on the 'big names' or the 'three letter' SIs only. </p>

<p>Earlier in this thread there is a link to a ballet discussion board (Ballet Talk for Dancers). I'd second the suggestion to visit that board and partake in the discussions. The information regarding the SIs is from first-hand experiences only, so it is a good way to get a feel for the various SIs. In order to access the SI information, you will need to register as a member (it's free and painless).</p>

<p>My daughter began attending SIs at age 14 and is currently a freshman in the LINES Ballet BFA program at Dominican University.</p>

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<p>Treemaven we have considered all of those things you mentioned, trust me. My D wants a tough program (it would have to be very tough bc her home teacher is, as I said, a tough cookie. we came to her for her reputation as that) The prestige of the program has no bearing on our choices. What we do NOT want is the "daddy can pay so I can go" type programs that are out there (ie Briansky, which I heard is done anyway). Every year about half - 3/4's of our company dancers go away to SI's. Some go to the ones like I just mentioned but most go to the audition only type. </p>

<p>You may say that my D's SI days are just beginning but as I stated we can probably only afford one $4000 + summer (if I can even convince her father of that) so we HAVE to be careful. If she does not get into a good one she will not go this year. She has very specific wants and needs and yes, I realize that every student is different but simply looking at websites is not going to do the trick on this so I am asking everyone I can about their experiences.
Also her SO does not approve of very many SI's so we are limited on that as well and have to have a final conf w/ her on this. I assume she has the best ideas where D will fit in but she was very encouraging of D to audition at both SAB and NYSSSA last year (we had to skip the NYSSSA audition bc she had a last minute rehearsal for a production she had the lead in). </p>

<p>As far as everyone saying how selective Chatauqua is, I don't feel that anyone should shy away from auditioning anywhere for fear of rejection. If that is the case then the dance world is not for you as a parent or your child as a dancer. Rejection will abound once in the real world. Our motto is reach high and aim higher. Anything less will leave you ill prepared for what is ahead. If you don't succeed go back and work harder on what kept you from getting in. </p>

<p>I have been to the Ballet Talk board many times over. I don't really find much info on there that is helpful and it is annoying that I have to sign in everytime (HELLOOOO do we need anymore passwords in this world?) just to look at certain threads (threads on pointe shoes are locked?). JMO though.</p>

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<p>Sorry, Momof3Stars, didn't mean to upset you. Just trying to 'give back'. SIs aren't the easiest things to navigate--especially early on.</p>

<p>If you really think your daughter may only have the opportunity to attend one SI over the course of the next several years, she might actually reap more benefits from one later in her training, at say, age 16 or 17 (junior or senior in high school). That would be at a time when she would be evaluated more on 'having it in place' rather than on 'potential' and would serve as a better frame for where her place in the 'big pond' is. And that would be the point where she would be in a better position to be evaluated and offered spots in training programs that are closer to company positions.</p>

<p>I didn't not mean to suggest that she not attempt the very selective SIs. By all means do. I only meant that name alone does not make the best SI experience, so don't discount other, less well-known ones. </p>

<p>Merde to your daughter for her audition season!</p>

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<p>Sorry Treemaven, I just have gone over this daily w. my D, other parents, et all and really explored every possible scenario. That said I did leave one thing out. This would probably be my D's only summer away, yes. I am hoping not. I am hoping that if she goes she discovers her true feelings for ballet away from the microcosm that is the ballet company she is with (her SO has said herself these girls need to at least audition to understand what is truly out there). My personal feeling is that if this is what she does still want (and I imagine she does, she hasn't wanted anything else since the age of 3) then we will start looking ahead to possible junior year summer programs that are attached to apprentice programs or residency programs. This is where it gets hard bc we don't want to advertise this right now, it is just a glimmer but seems to be a route taken often at our school. Ofc, this is far flung in the future and just an idea (D is in no way interested in going away all year at this point although at times I would like her to).<br>
So, many things going on here in our minds. She is seeing the auditions as a challenge. Doing SAB last year was very good for her and got her feet wet in the process. Hopefully she will end up where she is meant to be, whether it be at home or away.</p>

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<p>Momof3Stars, 20 would be considered a small class size at an SI. </p>

<p>Large classes would be 30-40 students.</p>

<p>If you are looking for a tough program where you will definitely get your money's worth, I agree with earlier posters that CPYB is the way to go.</p>

<p>Other highly selective programs that provide good training are National Ballet School (Toronto), San Francisco Ballet and Miami City Ballet. Miami City Ballet seems to have plenty of boys each year for partnering.</p>

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<p>Fendrock, Do you happen to know how difficult acceptance to Miami SI might be for a boy? My S is hoping to audition for their program and is curious. Thanks!</p>

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<p>evasmom, it is probably one of the more difficult SIs to get in, male or female.</p>

<p>They do have many boys from other countries who attend, so their applicant pool is wider than just the United States.</p>

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<p>Thanks Fendrock, that is what we thought... S is hoping maybe they take a larger class which would increase his chances but knows it is a reach for this year, none the less just auditioning will be a good experience!</p>

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<p>Since some of the posters have mentioned NY State and Chautauqua programs they might want to look at the Chautauqua Regional Youth Ballet summer program. It does not audition but requires photo and recommendation to ensure students are at Int-Adv level with good ballet training. It is small program but is lauded for its top-notch faculty including most recently NYC ballet principals (males - making it a nice program for boys). The site is cryb.net It is actually located about 20 minutes from the more well-known Chautauqua program.</p>

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<p>note: re last post - their site cryb.net will be back up on Monday</p>

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<p>We strongly recommend Bates. They have no auditions, and it is a very nurturing place, but also the dance is very good. This would be great preparation for college, where your daughter might get into forms other than ballet. It might be clarifying for her. It's fun, and also very intense in terms of the dance.</p>

<p>Our daughter went two summers and loved it. They do have placement classes the first full day, and the kids are placed in one of two levels, for each type of class. There is ballet, modern, and then two electives, chosen from jazz, Caribbean or African, hip hop and improv.</p>

<p>There is a demonstration in the big gym at the end, with each class doing a demo. So tehy work on technique, not a recital- a good thing!</p>

<p>In the evening, there is more dance if your daughter wants it. Students can work with counselors who are prof. dancers, on a show put on for the workshop community, and there are things like site-specific work, creative opportunities, and a peek into the role of dance to make political or artistic statements.</p>

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<p>Momof 3
I strongly suggest that you read through the ballet talk board that was mentioned earlier in the SI thread. This ahs a specific section for ballet SIs that discusses each and has feedback from people who have attended them. THsi was very helpful to us as it helped us to match a program that fit with my DDs dance personality. This privide information about auditions for programs as well as lodging, other activities, dorm life and food and tons of other stuff. Since you D has an idea of the programs she is interested in you can focus on those and what is discussed about them.</p>

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<p>I would also highly recommend the Ballet Talk site, specifically the section on the SI programs.</p>

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<p>After going to the wrong Ballet Talk board, then RE-REGISTERING at the BT for Dancers board several times I finally found the SI forums on there. I have not had time to read through most of them but did see that the people going to Joffrey report about 30 per class. Not too bad, my D is used to that many in a company class.</p>