Bard, Vassar, Sarah Lawrence: Differentiation

Parents Forum
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<p>I'm asking on behalf of a young woman who's looking for a college in the New York area, but not in Manhattan. She's bright, articulate, quirky and artsy. Several people have recommended these three schools to her but she (and I) are unclear how to compare them.</p>

<p>Her personal situation is a bit strange -- she started at a rural all-girls college, didn't like it, too isolated, too many girls, had roommate issues and so on. (I think the problems were more internal than external, but that's another story.) Ended up taking a leave of absence. She'd like to go back to a coed school but is still looking for a fairly liberal and arts driven environment.</p>

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<p>We visited Sarah Lawrence and Bard with our son last spring so I'll give you my impressions. We were visiting relatives in NJ and did our college visits on our way home to Vermont. We had an appointment at Bard but stopped at Sarah Lawrence on the way. Got there as a tour was getting underway so had time to do part of the tour. Campus had a small cozy feel to it that my son liked (English Tudor feel to some of the buildings - buildings ring a small hilly area where students were sitting out - tea house in the middle - closely surrounded by suburbia). Students did look like artsy types which my son also liked as compared to Rutgers and Princeton the other 2 campuses that he had been to. Performing arts space seemed to be a highlight of the tour but there was a class going on so we couldn't go in. Tour guide and the other student on the tour were both girls from California and they spent a bit of time talking enthusiastically about where you could buy really cool jewelry in the area which colored my impression a bit negatively. Biggest plus to Sarah Lawrence is that it is a short train ride into NYC but not actually in the city. The short distance to the city is something I'm pretty sure the students do take advantage of.</p>

<p>Bard campus is a bit more spread out (felt less claustrophobic to me but like I said I live in Vermont). Bard is in the middle of nowhere but that's actually more of what my son is looking for. Tour guide made a point of talking about the miniscule size of the nearest town which isn't used for much more than grocery shopping. Guide talked about living in I think it was called "The Ravines" when he first came to campus. That's the housing that Bard used to have that has been torn down and replaced with "The Toasters" so called because they do look like old fashioned round top toasters. We weren't allowed inside the dorms which didn't seem odd to me at the time because we hadn't seen the inside of the dorms at Princeton or Rutgers either but in retrospect does seem strange since we've seen the dorms at other colleges we've been to. We saw the arts building which has lots of individual studios so that if I remember correctly each art major eventually gets their own studio space. There is also a common gallery and there was art up in the student center as well. I think it was also in the student center that there was a small movie theater and our tour guide told us that they watch a lot of films - it seemed to be the major campus activity and a great plus in his viewpoint. I was impressed by the amount of friends the tour guide seemed to have around campus who all said hello to him (my son thought this might indicate cliquishness though). There were alot of students sitting outside smoking cigarettes - more than I've seen elsewhere - don't know what that means. We went into a seminar room and sat down around the table while the tour guide talked about the small seminar style classes which gave us a feel for it. We also went to the library to the senior thesis room, the senior thesis being a big part of the curriculum. Our tour guide said it is hard to do a double major at Bard because you'd have to do a senior thesis in each one. Artwise Bard is probably heavily influenced by NYC because I think it has alot of ties with the city but Sarah Lawrence students would have alot more personal experience - time spent there. Whenever Bard has come up in conversation with someone that knows about it they usually say "You know, Bard IS in the middle of nowhere."</p>

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<p>Thanks zip100, anyone else?</p>

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<p>We were very impressed by Bard. The President is a real go-getter - they've tripled their endowment in less than a decade, they are building all over the place, set up a new first-rate conservatory, started a liberal arts college in St. Petersburg, built a new Frank Gehry arts center, attracted top-flight faculty, and still have the best writing faculty working with undergraduates of any east coast college, including all the Ivies - Saul Bellow, Chinua Achebe, John Ashberry, etc. -- and the most famous female composer in the U.S. (Joan Tower). It is "arty" (my d. and I joked that they probably call the sports teams "the flying Botsteins" - after the Pres.). Tiny class sizes, better overall faculty resources than any liberal arts college we saw (including Williams and Swarthmore.) Library - they need a new one. </p>

<p>It is isolated. Not as isolated as Williams, but close. Overall we thought it a more exciting place than Vassar (which I kind of liked, but my d. didn't.) Didn't get a good feel of the student body.</p>

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<p>We saw Vassar and Bard on the same day.
Vassar was all about attitude. The Adcom was steely, remote, officious...the two kids we met were very contained, tight..both premeds as it happened. The campus is Gothic and college-y in nature. Son loved the Steinways, but it felt oppressive to us..I hate to say too much more based on our limited visit, because others on this board have a much broader feel and different visceral response as well. For us it was a quick "tidak suka"...</p>

<p>Bard has an entirely different feel. Free spirit artsy meets academic rigor. I really liked their academic construct in which 2nd year students have to justify moving on to a major- I think this is especially important for an arts oriented student, but a useful exercise for many. The students we met were a bit "out there" unique thinkers and seemed to fit the Bard "stereotype." The grounds are very un-college-y- very much one with the environment and a hodgepodge architecturally which I thought interesting. The arts facilites were excellent. The science facilities dismal..in spite of a stated desire to diversify their student population and enroll more kids with an interest in sciences, the chemistry lab we saw had a periodic table from 1967... My son decided he wanted a more "conventional" college environment, but I think Bard could be a great school for the right student. </p>

<p>From our visit these schools were like night and day. Given that this young lady has already seen a lot of schools(I am guessing she is someone I know)- and been to one of them, she should be able to sort them out with a visit fairly readily....</p>

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<p>We visited Vassar and Bard on the same day, but in summer so, for what it's worth... Our experience at Vassar was much more positive than robyrm's: adcom was young, funny, reassuring; student guide was a music major and, for a tour guide, pretty 'regular' and not particularly articulate. At one point, I stepped off the tour to chat with a couple of students, both of whom said they "loved" Vassar, could not imagine being anywhere else, had liked Haverford, Swarthmore--I forget where else--but were sold on the fellow students, beauty, and "vibe" of Vassar. </p>

<p>By contrast, adcom at Bard (an alumna) seemed rooted in the 60s, tour guide there was most impressive, articulate, and admirably candid about limitations of housing options, meal plan, location, while praising its unique curriculum--the intensive summer workshop for entering first-years, sophomore self-assessment, and senior project--interaction with faculty, and dynamic leadership. Especially for a confident or self-directed student, perhaps, Bard sounded wonderful; Vassar seemed both flexible (very few requirements) and traditional, which our d preferred.</p>

<p>Concur with robyrm's observations about the two campuses. Bard had a sort of wood-chippy, slightly scruffy feel that fit its setting but also the dramatic Gehry arts building. (We couldn't talk our way past security to see the inside of it that day.) Bard seemed very much 'unto itself,' or as d said, "There's no street here!" By contrast, Vassar buildings and grounds had a more traditional college campus feel, and its facilities and resources were truly impressive, particularly the library. </p>

<p>Bottom line: Our d came away feeling that she 'should' like Bard more than she did and wanting to set up an overnight when Vassar was in session.</p>

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<p>What sets Sarah Lawrence apart is the tutorial system, which involves frequent one-on-one work with faculty members. It is a small school in an upscale suburb. Personally, I would feel claustrophobic at SLC, but a student would get a lot of individual attention there, and it is by far the closest of the three to NYC. As the parent of a very artsy/academic kid at Princeton who has met tons of other artsy kids there, I don't tend to stereotype by appearance whether kids are "artsy" or not, but you see a lot of multiple piercings and spiky hair at Sarah Lawrence. </p>

<p>I would tend to think of Vassar as offering the most of the three in terms of the number and diversity of students as well as academic challenges and resources. It has a beautiful campus, collegiate gothic with modern architecture here and there; it is in Poughkeepsie, which is not a thrilling place. I know several students who are very happy there and working very hard. I would describe them all as artsy kids who are also academic. </p>

<p>I don't know much about Bard except that its president is a modern Renaissance person and it's in the country. Access to Manhattan is much less convenient than from the other two schools.</p>

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<p>Thanks for your comments. In retrospect, I think any of these colleges would have been good choices for my son and I'm not clear why we didn't visit them. As an interesting aside, I recently met a young woman who's in a creative position at a fashion retailer's New York product development office. She graduated from Vassar with an art history degree and kind of stumbled into this position and evidently was doing quite well until she decided to go to Central America with the Peace Corps. I love the diversity of what a liberal arts education can prepare you for. Everything and nothing.</p>

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<p>A good friend of my daughter's just arrived home from visiting Bard and Vassar - she loved Bard. I have yet to gather the specifics as to why she loved it so much, but she did. This is a very bright young lady with the best SAT scores... She also told me that Bard had quite a bit of merit aid to give to science students and, I believe she said, that they had a brand new science building.</p>

<p>Anymore up-to-date reports from you all here on CC?</p>

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<p>I must say that our impressions of Vassar were right along the lines of Robyrm's. I was hesitant to post something negative, but she said it so much more tactfully than I could have. As she said, it could have been the particular adcom (maybe Roby and I both had the same one, who is a dud :) ). It seemed that he was trying to impress upon us how selective Vassar is, and did not seem at all encouraging. When we privately asked him about my D's plan to substitute an AP course of interest to her for a 4th year of science in her senior year (she had already taken science through honors physics), he immediately (without asking any more questions about her background) said we should be warned that she would be "compared" unfavorably to other applicants who had four years of science. (To me, this was kind of an unwise answer on his part, as he knew NOTHING about my daughter, her accomplishments, scores, or transcript.) My daughter did not care for the campus appearance either (maybe the cloudy day gave it an oppressive feeling.) Also, although it sounds very picky to even mention this, we were charged quite a high price (by the item) for our lunch, as guests, and even though we didn't take very much food, it added up to something like $17 for the two of us. This also added to the lack of a welcoming feeling we had. I'm sure it is a great school, but after visiting, my D immediately knew she didn't plan to apply.</p>

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<p>Skidmore is often discussed with this group.</p>