Barnard... - and the rest of Columbia

I think this good-natured moment at this year’s University commencement is actually a good representation of the role that Barnard College plays among the many schools at Columbia University.

In his opening, University President Bollinger only got as far as “Barnard” – and after the spirited reaction, could only end with “… and the rest of Columbia” :rofl::

It’s a light-hearted way to answer the frequential posted question of how “intertwined” all the University’s schools are in reality, and that any sibling rivalry is joyful ribbing, at most.

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LOL, DD is considering applying to Barnard next year. Her grades and EC is enough to try Columbia, but she’s decided if she got in both, she would choose going to Barnard. :slight_smile:

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That’s how it was with my daughter. Once she learned about Barnard, had visited, experienced the vibe of the college and researched Columbia University as a whole (including the Common Core requirements at CC vs. the very broad/flexible general education requirements at BC), she voiced that she would chose Barnard over Columbia College, as it better represented her own view of the world.

I was sceptical about that preference, but now looking back, that had indeed been the right/best choice for her. She had many close friends from both colleges, as they are all one large undergraduate student body sharing classes, professors, and facilities (libraries, dining halls, gym, etc.). And for her, there had only ever always been advantages to Barnard (other than having to be “swiped in” to party in CC freshman dorms, or her swiping in CC friends to her first-year dorm), yet still being awarded a University fellowship for a summer program abroad, and having all the equally-shared University resources/facilities at her disposal.

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My D22 did not apply to Columbia when she applied to Barnard. She fell in love with Barnard for what it offers.

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@DigitalDad Thank you for the insides. We live in the Metro area so we are quite familiar with CC campus. But we took a tour of BC last month and my daughter absolutely fell in love with it. From what I have heard, almost every girl I know who chose BC over CC seems happy and not regrets their choice at all. : ) I was also skeptial (maybe still a little bit) about the preference, I guess I just need repect and trust daughter’s choice.

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To be honest, as she grew into an adult I decided to limit myself to input when asked, but was increasingly careful to never drive the decisions. I started having fears how very much I would blame myself, if (due to objectively noone’s fault) things just incidentally didn’t work out.

But - I also have to admit that by the time she reached college age, she put time into researching facts that were relevant to her, and came to reasoned conclusions based on those, which were a fit for what she wanted from life.

In the case of Barnard, she was proven right many times over, in so many aspects.

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PS: I do believe that - although I feel a bit uneasy about the “anecdotal nature” of my limited sample set of “1”.

Far from wanting to stir up any emotionally-laden “us vs. them” debate that tries to go back decades, I wouldn’t mind to hear from a current Barnard student/recent alumni, who wished they had attended CC instead and what specific downsides they had experienced.

Just because those factors/issues might never have surfaced for, or be any relevant to, most Barnard students we happen to know, it might still helpful to be aware of them.

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I would be interested to hear also. I’ve heard from some current Barnard students that the relationship between the two schools can get quite complicated and I wonder if Barnard students feel like they are somewhat treated differently as being part of Barnard and not CC. My DD really liked Barnard over CC during her visits- she liked Barnard’s school vibe, the culture, and students were just very welcoming. But I know in the end, she wouldn’t want to be treated differently or people would view her as an “inferior student” which is hard to discern just through a school visit.

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Barnard students have a pretty sweet deal. They are able to register ahead of CC and SEAS students for classes, and don’t have the same core requirements. All while getting a degree that says Columbia University.

Some other advantages: no push to graduate in 8 semesters, can live in the Columbia dorms, separate administration, and a lot more.

I can only speak for my daughter, and her various “Barnumbia” friends I met over time.

Maybe from a corporation/budget standpoint to a casual observer - but not from a student standpoint.

Very many classes taught at Barnard or Columbia College will have a complete mix of students from three, and sometimes all four undergraduate colleges of Columbia University: BC, CC, GS and SEAS.

The dining halls, libraries, etc. on both sides of Broadway are used by all undergraduates of all the colleges, as are the clubs, gyms, sororities, etc.

99% of the time students would not even know, which of the colleges the person next to them anywhere happens to be enrolled in - nor do they care! Of course, especially in smaller classes, you’ll eventually connect to a few and you’ll likely become casually aware who is enrolled where. And still no one cares.
They’ll be working together seamlessly on group projects/assignments, etc., and the grades achieved for each test, paper, class,… make abundantly clear that it’s a complete level playing field.

The top students in any given class will be from any of the colleges.

It’s not specific to any one college!

General Studies students might feel different, because they often have different life experiences and situations.
SEAS students feel differently, because they are so math/science focused and some could feel “sentenced” to sit through some “core” classes,
CC students feel differently, because some might envy the fact, that Barnard women can walk from their dorm to the basement in their PJs when they are sick to see the Doctor, and some envy the freedom that Barnard students have in choosing from an extremely broad course offering to satisfy several foundations and other breadth requirements at once – oh, and some still fester an inferiority complex because years ago Obama chose to speak at BC, not CU graduation.

Finally (in the case of my daughter) Barnard students felt sympathy for her CC friends struggling through music theory classes (I hope I get that sample right) that they had no interest in.

Yes - there are differences between the colleges, and yes they are being “felt” by every student of that respective college - EACH college! And yes, like between all peer groups, there can be friendly “ribbing” in all directions.

FWIW, my daughter was editor at one of the Columbia University undergraduate journals, was in the leadership of another club, and after freshman year, got a University stipend for summer studies in Italy. Nothing “complicated” at all.

In PRACTICAL terms, the only REAL difference my daughter ever felt annoyed about was:

  • Living in the first-year BC dorm, she had to sign-in her CC friends downstairs - AND also walk them back down later at night - because the CC ID won’t get you dorm access, and at BC, any visitors can’t walk the halls unattended.

  • First-year parties in the CC dorm meant that BC students needed someone to “swipe them in”, for the same reason.

The other differences were advantages!

Actually, it doesn’t just “say” it. Their degree is the Columbia University degree, conferred by the CU president, during the big graduation event all colleges and graduate schools jointly attend. The added feature is, that the degree of Barnard students, will also carry the additional signature of the college president.

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There might be the occasional class, where the top student, or the student with the highest university GPA, happens not to be a Barnard woman - but that’s nothing that CC should feel inferior or envious about. :wink:

I have never seen any figures to back that up - but I remember a while ago some student publication stating that (on average) in many university clubs/organizations Barnard woman tend to be overrepresented, and appeared more engaged (even in some classes).
Again - I never tried to qualify that observation, since there never had been issues.

We were told on a Columbia tour given by a CC student that Barnard students are limited in how many CC classes Barnard students can take to count toward their major. For example if you’re an Economics major at Barnard, you can only take 3 (he wasn’t sure of the precise number…said 3 or 4, thought it was 3) CC Econ classes toward your major. Is that correct? It seemed a little odd to me.

Let me first say “generally speaking” that students pick from the university course catalogue and there is no quota (although there will of course be courses designed for certain majors and those students given seniority). In fact, there are classes that might alternate being taught in a BC vs. CU class room from semester to semester - by the same professor (all Barnard professors are also University faculty/tenured.)

My daughter usually picked certain classes because they had been recommended, or because of the professor, or because it worked out with that semester’s schedule - but never because of building location.

Now, as far as Economics, that was not my daughter’s field of study - but here’s the info:
https://economics.barnard.edu/economics-major-economics-track

I see 7 required econ classes with “BC” course designations.
In the footnotes, there are 6 equivalent university (“UN”) courses listed that can be substituted - the only one exception is a Barnard “Foundations” class “Theoretical Foundations of Political Economy”, for which there is no university equivalent listed.

I see nothing about a quota, and (at least for my daughter’s major and minors), there was only a requirement as to what classes were needed - the entirely arbitrary location of the classroom building was not prescribed.

There are also some weird rules that never made any sense to me:

  • Barnard has its own separate alumni association. They are not allowed to join the Columbia Alumni Association.
  • Separate orientation programs (NSOP), and family/parents weekend.
  • Separate career center, but the Barnard students can attend the Job fairs.
  • Separate yearbooks and class days, but Barnard students do participate in the University wide commencement.

Indeed, Barnard is an independent corporate entity, with its own management and trustees, buildings, bursar, alumni organization. Through inter-corporate agreements, it contributes to the University budget and joined tenure.

That comes with the benefit of affording its own admissions process, health/counseling services, advising, career services,… fully dedicated to Barnard women.

Barnard women will have their own ESOP (first-year orientation program), hopefully offering those new students the “small, liberal college” feeling they had signed up for - and creating a sense of “sisterhood” within the larger university - and the even bigger city.

This flows into the yearbook topic - it does make a lot of sense to have a Barnard-centric, more intimate community yearbook, and certainly class day. Besides, who doesn’t want the signs on Radio City Music Hall congratulate you. :grin:

Not sure that the attribute “weird” applies?
The (rejected) alternative (in the 70’s) had been to be absorbed into the university - and “puff”…

(If anything, I wonder to what degree the other three undergraduate colleges might sometimes prefer to be allowed that same level of independence, and sense of identity.)

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I truly do learn a new word on CC every day!

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https://bwog.com/2022/04/bwreakbwing-columbia-to-be-absorbed-by-barnard-forming-barnumbia-university/

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Thanks. Not surprising that there’s some mis-information flowing from CC students :slight_smile: I appreciate the detail and clarification. I also appreciate the points @sgopal2 pointed out. Of those points, the separate career center seems like the biggest bummer and the one which would most benefit from integration, practically speaking. The rest don’t really move me though I can imagine some caring about those things.

I have no basis for an opinion pro/contra, as I only know one “end” of it.

I can say that my daughter was happy that there was one focused on (Barnard) women, their quick accessibility, and the services (resume writing, interviewing coaching) they ultimate provided her with when she had been seeking out/applying for relevant internships/practica.

Given that the outcomes were a full-year internship at another T30 in Manhattan, a good practica at a private facility, and eventually direct acceptance into a selective graduate program, it’s unclear if she could have been better served.

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I think “Columbard” or “Columbinard” sounds better. hehe