@WildestDream you are 100 percent correct. I was just thinking BC probably has some more work to do on this area than Barnard. W and L
I don’t know at all. I just have seen you mention on multiple threads that BC isn’t worth it. Don’t pay full frieight etc. I am one who says economics are a huge concern but it very may be worth it for some and it is standard pricing for selective private schools. They are not perfect and these others in the thread are really super selective I am just trying to balance out the perspectives for the OP. These are big decisions and they should have great pride in their accomplishments. Like I said have a good day and thanks for the feedback.
Sometimes schools are more selective than their academic strength/rep merits – maybe kids are flocking to it because of the campus, location, whatever else. Apps are high, admit rate drops, and the academics aren’t really all that, and we scratch our heads.
In BC’s case I think it’s the opposite: the academics are really generally quite strong, but for whatever reason, a relative lack of applications means they aren’t as selective as their academic peers.
Emory is similar in this regard: as strong academically as their peers – Vandy, Wash U, Rice, Georgetown, Notre Dame – but not quite as selective.
@prezbucky good point. I just feel bad for kids with super high stats but hat get rejected from Emory and Bc but get into these other schools and hear that they aren’t selective. Or the other way around. They can all be brutally selective.
One factor that inflates BC’s acceptance rate & lowers its yield is that students who apply to BC often apply to a few Ivies, Notre Dame, & Georgetown. And for whatever reason (perhaps often financial aid?) they seldom pick BC if they get into an Ivy, ND, or GTown.
So in broad terms and off the top of my head stats
That group you mention gtown Nd and most ivies has about 20k spots ± and half are one sex or the other. So a young woman has 1.1mm us female students and thousands of super achieving international students to compete with for a spot So you take the 10k spots and cut it in half for athletes legacy international donors and urm candidates. So now there are 5k spots for this average female student not in the categories mentIoned. So all our splitting of hairs comparisons are essentially meaningless outside of these top 5000 girls. There are 100k students that are very close in ability and stats. That’s why it’s. Crapshoot and if you get in any top 50 us college or university you are considered the best of the best
OP with your choices you can’t make a mistake on perceived prestige or opportunities. Visit talk to students and go from there. It will all work out.
It’s not nearly the crapshoot your stats indicate, because I would guess the majority of the top students NATIONWIDE aren’t even applying to the top 50 national universities. Many are content with the college down the street, a parent’s alma mater, a foreign university, an LAC, a special program outside the top 50 (e.g., journalism at Missouri), a college that gives them a big scholarship (see Alabama), and ESPECIALLY the big in-state U that half of their friends are going to attend (Michigan State, Kentucky, Oregon, etc.). In the heartland, you’d be amazed at how many brilliant kids go straight to the local community college.
You are right on that
BC was in the top 20 last year with 17 Fulbright Scholars selected.
I am mystified by this discussion but the data speaks for itself — Barnard clearly is the most selective.
From College Board:
Boston College – Very selective 32% of applicants admitted
Barnard College – Most selective — 15% of applicants admitted
College board ranks college by selectivity as Most Selective, Very Selective, Somewhat Selective, and Less Selective. “Most” is more selective than “Very”. 15% is less than 32%. Even Barnard’s ED admission rate is under 32%.
Similarly as to “prestige” – given the Barnard / Columbia connection and the Columbia degree together with the historic Seven Sisters connection — I don’t see how anyone could reasonably claim that BC is more prestigous. (Post #8).
US News seems to be in the business of ranking colleges and while it lists LAC’s separately from national universities, it uses the same methodology and scoring system for both, including heavy consideration of academic reputation as well as various objective factors. It gives Barnard a score of 81 out of 100; Boston College a score of 70 out of 100. (Top-ranked Princeton U & Williams College get a scores of 100 – when comparing between lists, Barnard’s score of 81 puts it slightly above Georgetown U (at 80)… and Boston College’s score of 70 would equate to Dickinson and Rhodes on the LAC list). And US News ranks W&L higher than either Barnard or BC, with an overall score of 89.
US News ranking methodology is explained here: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/how-us-news-calculated-the-rankings
But as I posted above, the students should choose based on her own sense of fit and preference. I specifically said and will repeat that the decision of which offer of acceptance to accept should be based on primarily on fit and comfort level, with finances also considered if there is a singificant disparity.
The OP felt that the daughter was leaning toward BC because she likes Boston – and if that continues to be the case after April visits then that is really where she should be going.
I don’t think it’s helpful to engage in a “which is more prestigious” debate because that’s really pretty much a matter of bragging rights for high school seniors and for parents of undergrads – but for college students it is meaningless once classes start freshman year. If the student is miserable at the chosen campus, it’s relative prestige is small consolation And when it comes to internships and jobs – in the end the student is going to be competing against others from the same school and judged on their own accomplishments. If they go onto grad school, then down the line that is the school that prospective employers will look at.
So really – I do think it’s dumb to debate about prestige or selectivity – but if one does want to engage in that discussion, there are objective sources of data one can look at.
You are correct statistics like the statistics of the admitted class in terms of gpa. Class rank and boards. It is just a bit accurate to portray this as a no brainer when it’s virtually indistinguishable. And Barnard is certainly not fielding d 1 sports teams which lowers these averages Also there is so much that goes into admitted rates. BC has to take more admits I would suggest because their yield is lower because the quality of student is also looking at ivies and Nd and gtown. But they had 32000 applications for 2200 seats. They accept a lot more for yield but it’s less tang 10 percent of students applying get a seat.
Different sorts apply to both and equally challenging. But it’s not apples to apples
Barnard’s admit rate is half of BC’s – one large part of selectivity. The other main ingredient is GPA/test scores – stats. I think USNews also still uses the “percentage of admits in top 10% of hs class” metric.
Now, when we are figuring out “selectivity”, how do we weight these three things?
I would (personally) make it 50% admit rate, 40% stats, and 10% “top 10% of hs class”. Or maybe 50/30/20. I guess my main point is, more goes into selectivity than just the admit rate.
But admit rates are also a bit funny. You litterally have thousands of kids applying to some of the most well known with zero chance or expectation of getting in and really lowering that number. International students primarily target the global brands. And the size of the class. But in the end I look at who accepted and what do they look like. If they are statistically indistinguishable It is.
It would be great to see how many equally qualified kids applied vs accepted. That would interesting.
MODERTOR’S NOTE: Per the Terms of Service, CC is not a debate site. I have deleted several posts. Please move on.
BC has D1 athletes’ stats. Barnard has HEOP.
Bottom line: they’re equally rigoroud and difficult to get into.
If visiting W&L try to see URichmond, Emory Oxford, Sewannee, and Davidson.
Visit other Seven Sisters and Agnes Scott.
MODERATOR’S NOTE:
Can we agree to disagree on the statistics?
Even if we cannot agree on it, another moderator “asked” you to move on. While she did it politely, one should not assume compliance was optional. 6 posts deleted.
This is so sad that a discussion about those three institutions ended up as an acceptance rate debate and relative prestige. They are colleges that are very different among themselves in everything and there is a lot of info online about fit, location etc.
Thank you all for the information! We visited Boston College yesterday and left impressed with the academic opportunities and academic support resources. The general vibe of the campus was quietly confident. The campus is gorgeous. The dorms are standard issue; i.e., not great. The weather was terrible–35 F, overcast and damp. The admitted students did not ask a lot of questions (I know that doesn’t mean anything). O’Neill Library was full of students who seemed totally focused on work. I noted that the pre-health advising presentation documented a higher than average medical school admit rate for BC graduates with a GPA of at least 3.4 and a 508 MCAT (80th%ile?). Most end up at NYU, Tufts, Drexel–all great places but not Harvard, Stanford, Northwestern, etc. She has a high school friend who is a current sophomore majoring in English and who absolutely loves the school. I do appreciate all of the opinions. We are visiting Barnard this coming weekend.