<p>I’m debating between the two. I know they are very different. I’ll say now that NYC is more appealing than living in a college town (which I do now) but I don’t want that to be my deciding factor, because I know i can travel to NYC easily from Cornell or do an ILR (my school) program in NYC. I’m looking for more in terms of graduate placement, internship opportunities, academics, etc. I’m in ILR now. If I were to go to Barnard, probably a history or polysci major.</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Im also interested in finding out stats about how well Barnard students do after graduation. I’ve looked and looked, but because I’m not so good with online searching, I have not found any information about percentages of students that enter into the workforce, or go to grad. school, medical school, law school, etc. Any advice about how to find this?</p>
<p>Traveling between NYC and Ithaca isn’t easy… unless you’re cool with 4-5 hour trips? I think location is huge in this decision. How do you feel about snow 6 months out of the year?</p>
<p>I think the number is something like 80% of Barnard grads go on to some sort of graduate school. And I don’t think you get any better than NYC for internship opportunities unless you’re looking for internships in animal husbandry or hotel management…</p>
<p>Actually it IS easy, there are buses that leave right from campus to/from NYC 2-3 times a day. Plus other bus lines run to/from Ithaca too. But it still takes 5 hours. And they’re not free either, $150 round trip. (The other bus lines are cheaper, but less direct).</p>
<p>There are planes too for that matter. Flights are about 1-1/4 hours, but they are not numerous and certainly not cheap.</p>
<p>mysteryflavored, may i ask where you got your 80% from?</p>
<p>Voltaire, if you want ILR, then go to the school that has your major – don’t choose your college by location. You have the whole rest of your life to choose where you live. Barnard doesn’t offer ILR as a major – history or poli sci are far more generalized and less career-oriented – so it makes sense for you only if you are thinking that you are not all that certain about your major.</p>
<p>Perhaps one way to decide is to look at course requirements from Cornell & compare that with Barnard, where you will spend your first 2 years mostly choosing from a broad array of courses to fill the 9-ways of knowing requirements. What appeals to you most? If you are looking at Cornell’s requirements for your major and thinking that you feel boxed in or unenthusiastic about all the required courses, then maybe you would be better off choosing Barnard instead. But choose by the differences in the programs - not based on the city. While it may not be cheap or all that easy, you are right that you can and will be able to visit NY from Ithaca on occasion.</p>
<p>This is totally irrelevant, but when I was trying to Google an answer to thesky’s question, I found an article about Barnard & Columbia written in NY Magazine in 1981. Fun read.<br>
Here’s the link:
[New</a> York Magazine - Google Books](<a href=“http://■■■■■■/XxYpw]New”>New York Magazine - Google Books)</p>
<p>Favorite part: “tuition … almost $6000 at NYU and $7000 at Columbia and Barnard”</p>
<p>;)</p>
<p>thesky, I just participated in a student panel yesterday for the admitted 2015 students. The admissions officer leading the panel threw out that figure to the audience.</p>
<p>okay…thank you! I guess I will just keep looking. If you find anything, please notify me :)</p>
<p>lol
i had this conversation with several people at the admitted students’ weekend. i’ll tell you what i told the lovely girls i met: we’re all biased.</p>
<p>I’m a current senior, and PoliSci major; however, my two best friends from high school both go to Cornell, and have spent a fair amount of time visiting. You know that the schools are different, but the degree of that difference CANNOT be over-emphasized. I can’t comment too much on the ILR thing, aside from the fact that, obviously, an ILR degree doesn’t necessarily lead to a career in labor relations, and a PoliSci/History doesn’t preclude a career in labor relations. So, as far as I can sum up:</p>
<p>Cornell is a better choice, if you:
-Don’t mind the walk from your dorm to your classes taking 45 minutes (that is not an exaggeration).
-Are interested in joining a sorority (neither of my friends went greek, but most of their friends did).
-Want to attend sporting events.
-Are comfortable with a VERY school-spirited environment. Every time I visit, I’m shocked by the percentage of people (at least 2/3) who are wearing at least one item of Cornell paraphernalia.
-Don’t mind snow/winter (it’s not 6 months long, but it does get colder there, and the snow sticks around for all of it).
-Feel okay with big classes. I know ILR runs smaller than most of the schools at Cornell, but it’s still a big-class kind of school.
-Like the idea of a HUGE university.
-Want to be around nature. It is incredibly beautiful.
-Understand that it is NOT easy to travel between Ithaca and NYC. Monydad is right–the buses run frequently, and leave from campus. And, actually, the buses are much cheaper (maybe even free?) for Cornell students. What he misses is that a 5 hour bus ride, or even a shorter plane ride (not much shorter in the long run, given the time it takes to get to and from the respective airports, security time, etc.) is simply not feasible, except on breaks/long weekends, with the amount of work you’ll have. You can definitely spend a semester in NYC–one of my friends did a co-op in Boston. But, during a regular semester at Cornell, you shouldn’t expect to be able to come down to NYC for a weekend.
-Are okay with classes on Fridays.
-Don’t want a particularly strong institutional support system–things like academic and career advising, health services, research librarians, and professor accessibility are weaker.</p>
<p>You should go to Barnard if you:
-Don’t mind the distribution requirements.
-Are okay with a weaker sense of general community, supplanted by a deeper attachments in sub-communities (my friends here are like family, my first-year seminar class still meets to have dinner/drinks, you constantly see people you know). Sports are there, but not terribly well-attended. There are a few great moments of community spirit every semester, but it’s not terribly ubiquitous.
-Are comfortable with NYC, and its pace of life. Everyone and everything moves quickly here, and you will, too. My boyfriend did undergrad at a suburban liberal arts college, and is from Boston–he was surprised to find himself changing from a “Boston person” into a “New York person” so quickly. The difference, even though both are urban, is significant. New York is more frenetic, more 24/7, more artsy/cosmopolitan/aesthetic, sharper, more individualistic/weirder, more openly neurotic, more post-modern. Boston is great, but totally different–it sleeps at night, only rushes when it has somewhere to be, is more American/preppy/bro-ish. Cornellians, including my friends, tend to be more of “Boston people.”
-Want all of the incredible opportunities that NYC has to offer: museums, concerts, plays, opera, lectures, restaurants, bars.
-Are interested in interning during the school year. This is an incredible advantage; summer internships are generally much more competitive than those during the year. Barnard offers grants to help offset the costs of unpaid internships, and there are (almost) no classes on Fridays. Granted, it can be difficult to balance professional interests with academic ones, but it’s doable.
-Are independent, highly motivated, persistent, resilient, and confident in your abilities/comfortable with yourself.
-Want work that skews more to long essays, heavy readings, and class participation than tests.
-Want an incredibly well-developed institutional support system that fosters your holistic personal development, and is tailored to the particular needs of women aiming for high levels of success. Health services, counseling services, deans, academic advisors, career development, professors, disability services, fellowship/grad school advising, and special programs (like the BCRW, the Athena Leadership Labs, the Writing/Speaking Fellows) are all top-notch in terms of accessibility, focus on your specific needs, personal interest, empathy, and competence. Even President Spar has office hours.
-Don’t have much interest in greek life–it’s here if you decide you want it. But the weekend/party scene generally moves out of the frats and into the city after, say, orientation week. The panoply of options available in New York quickly becomes more appealing than, say, sticky floors and Natty Lite. The same cannot be said of Cornell.
-Are comfortable pursuing the connections, opportunities, and experiences you want. They are all here, they are all available to you, and you are talented enough to obtain them. However, pursuant to the stuff above about New York, people can get too wrapped up in their own world (friends, family, partners, school, work, clubs, etc.) to notice you–but, everyone is willing to connect, to help as they can, and to engage, if you just make the initial effort. Likewise, the opportunities and resources here are vast, but it’s up to you to go after them.
-Want to be surrounded by incredible women who, through their support and the example they set, help you become a more accomplished person. My good friends include a Fulbright research grantee, a Marshall Scholarship finalist, a 5-year B.A./M.I.A. student who’s received multiple grants from the State Department, women bound for top-tier grad schools (Harvard Law, LSE, and others), women who have signed with Bank of America and McKinsey, Teach for America grantees, a Peace Corps volunteer, and people who are just taking some time to sort through the mess of possibilities to figure out what it is they want to do. What is just as wonderful about these women as their accomplishments is that they are so incredibly approachable, down-to-earth, and supportive. They are focused and driven, but not so self-oriented that it detracts from their ability to empathize, or to form deep connections. Their personal characteristics are so much richer than their resumes suggest.
-Want to have access to an incredible alumnae community. There is truly a singular quality to Barnard alumnae: I never cease to be amazed by their poise, their articulateness, their intelligence, their authority, and their grace. Aside from that, almost all of them are interested in doing whatever they can to help you advance. Many women on the Board of Trustees meet with students (not just student government folk) regularly. The alumnae network is a great resource for personal and professional development.
-Want to meet super awesome people. Better than just meeting them, your time here will give you the intelligence, the authority, and the confidence, given the right forum, to get up and ask original, relevant, and probing questions of people you used to idolize. A sampling of people I have seen speak, thanks to Barnard/Columbia: the Interim Government Advisor of Bangladesh, Michele Bachelet, Ann Coulter. A sample of people I have gotten to meet, thanks to Barnard/Columbia: Hillary Clinton (a few times), Barack Obama, Chuck Hagel, Geraldine Ferraro (a few times), Fran Drescher (same place I met Geraldine Ferraro for the first time), David Patterson, Eliot Spitzer, Randi Weingarten, Anthony Weiner, Dustin Hoffman, Kirsten Gillibrand. A sampling of people I have gotten to question, thanks to Barnard/Columbia: Carolyn Maloney, Geraldo Rivera, Judith Kaye, Anna Quindlen, Gloria Steinem, Amy Klobuchar, Ellen Malcolm, Marie Wilson, Phyllis Schlafly, the UN Special Envoy to Myanmar, etc.</p>
<p>So, there we are. I think my time at Barnard has been incredibly well-spent. It’s not necessarily an easy or a happy school, but neither is Cornell. I know that I couldn’t have handled Cornell, but it’s an incredibly personal choice. After four years, I am amazed with how much I have accomplished and grown. I have developed an ease in articulating my ideas to a specific audience; a strong sense of self–my strengths, my values, my pleasures, my weaknesses; a resilience in the face of setbacks; an ability to identify my goals, the resources I need to achieve them, and the best way of obtaining those resources; an ability to connect with friends on a much more intimate level than I had previously thought possible; and a confidence in my authority–in the worth of my intelligence, my experience, my personal characteristics, my knowledge, my ideas, and my passions. In brief, I’ve learned poise, grace, and to relinquish the ideal of perfection. Most people can’t say that after undergrad; most Barnard women can.</p>
<p>Feel free to message me privately, should you have clarifying questions or concerns.</p>
<p>
this sounds counter intuiative but I would think a number like that is common among highly selective schools assuming they include any grad school ever. This would include folks who …
<p>I had never thought about it but the percentage is higher among the inner cirlce of my undergrad friends.</p>
<p>“(that is not an exaggeration).” Yes it is. </p>
<p>“-Are interested in joining a sorority” Barnard students can also join sororities. </p>
<p>“…during a regular semester at Cornell, you shouldn’t expect to be able to come down to NYC for a weekend.”</p>
<p>I’ll have to remember to tell my daughter that next time she stops home(outside NYC). Which she does several times a semester, when she so desires. Too bad you didn’t post a few days ago, you just missed her. She came in Monday,and went back Tuesday. </p>
<p>On the other hand, a downside for us is she doesn’t come home much in the summer, it’s so beautiful there that she’d rather stay up there than come home. </p>
<p>“…supplanted by a deeper attachments in sub-communities”</p>
<p>… which regrettably are not always achieved at Barnard, as point of fact, and are not unique to Barnard, so are no particular reasons to choose either school. The reason D2 bolted out of here Tuesday was so she could get back to have dinner with her friends in Ithaca Tuesday night, instead of dinner with us here.</p>
<p>“Want all of the incredible opportunities that NYC has to offer”
…at prices that are often also incredible, for a college student as opposed to an investment banker living and working in NYC. D2 is happier with what she has available, and can afford, to do in Ithaca. It is a college town,not an investment banker town, most things are priced accordingly.</p>
<p>“Want to be surrounded by incredible women who, through their support and the example they set, help you become a more accomplished person.”</p>
<p>And all the women at Cornell are horrible, of course. (Including your friends??) Really…</p>
<p>"My good friends include… " And by contrast Cornell graduates don’t accomplish anything of course… </p>
<p>“-Want work that skews more to long essays, heavy readings, and class participation than tests”</p>
<p>FYI, ILR is humorously referred to on campus as as “I Love to Read”, I guess you didn’t know that. More generally my report is that the work demands are comparable, but Cornell grading is a little stiffer. However that report is more vs. Cornell CAS, not ILR.</p>
<p>“-Don’t have much interest in greek life–it’s here if you decide you want it.”</p>
<p>Correct, so again there is little distinction to make on that basis. At Cornell, 2/3 of the students are not in fraternities/ sororities. At both schools, during freshman year frat parties can play a role for freshmen, if you’re into that. After freshman year, if you are not in that system you typically have virtually nothing to do with it. In both cases, I assume.</p>
<p>“But the weekend/party scene generally moves out of the frats and into the city after, say, orientation week.” </p>
<p>Specifically it moves into downtown bars. Whereas at Cornell the scene evolves towards collegetown house parties, which are free, more intimate, more student centered, and more connected to campus. There is no viable analog to the Collegetown house party scene at Barnard. Barnard dorms don’t even allow parties at all, IIRC, and boys must be known in advance to give names downstairs to be let in. Cornell, without frats, is socially just better than Barnard. There, I said it. The collegetown house scene vs. traipsing to downtown bars all the time is one of the main reasons why, as I was told. Of course, real, full coeducation, coed dorms (mostly) and a 50-50 Male- Female ratio is another reason why. Barnard has many admirable attributes, but its social scene is not one of them, relatively speaking, compared to many schools, not just Cornell. I would normally be more diplomatic, but you are giving impressions that do not match my report.And my informant is highly qualified.</p>
<p>There’s more, but I grow weary…</p>
<p>Cornell is a better choice for many students, but for a student for whom Barnard is a good fit it may not be. The OP is trying to decide just which camp she belongs in.</p>
<p>I must second monydad’s assessment of the beauty of Cornell and the liveliness of the social scene.</p>
<p>However, I think it is disingenuous to suggest that the presence of partying and Greeks is the same at both schools. Greek life has a larger presence at Cornell, and my Barnard daughter’s current Cornell roommate volunteered that partying happens throughout the week. At Barnard, partying is strictly on weekends, and as monydad suggests, mostly off campus. It’s not a “party scene.”</p>
<p>If a student is looking for the more typical (not in a negative way – not being snobbish here) college experience, Cornell is the better choice. If a student wants an urban experience and is not too concerned about male/female ratios and dating (my daughter did date a Columbia guy while at Barnard but I digress) and enjoys at atmosphere of sister solidarity (not always – monydad’s D may not have had this experience) than Barnard is a better choice.</p>
<p>I don’t think there’s a right/wrong here. I would assume that the grading, workload, etc. would be similar. </p>
<p>I would assume that the after college success would be similar.</p>
<p>There is a feeling of feminism (I wouldn’t say in-your-face feminism) at Barnard that isn’t pronounced at Cornell. That isn’t to say that feminists don’t go to Cornell. Cornell has the distinction of being the only Ivy that was co-ed from inception. So kuddos to Cornell.</p>
<p>This is really a personal decision, and I daresay more young women would choose Cornell. My daughter didn’t and wouldn’t. Barnard was her ED school, a clear first choice, and she never regretted it for a second. She adored Barnard, is very loyal to it, and still lives in Manhattan surrounded by the friends she made there.</p>
<p>Other people have different experiences.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I have to say this is not D1’s experience at Cornell. She had great career advising and benefited greatly from Cornell’s alumni network. Even when she was a freshman at some large classes, she had access to her professors during office hours. She regularly communicated with her professors via email. There was an instance when a professor emailed her as he was running to catch a plane, just to let her know he wouldn’t be available to chat until later and he would contact her as soon as he landed. I have also contacted Cornell’s administration (helicopter parent here), and they have all responded quickly. Cornell’s dean or professor will not call if a student is doing badly in class or not show up for class (one LAC said it was something they did), but it’s not the kind of environment D1 was looking for. </p>
<p>D1 is coming down to visit her grandparents outside of NYC today. She will be spending a day in NYC on Sat to get her hair cut, doing some shopping and having dinner with friends. It’s not something she does frequently because she is usually quite busy at Cornell, especially with formal and Slope Day coming up. </p>
<p>D1 seriously considered Columbia because everything the school and the city had to offer. Good or bad, the option wasn’t available to her. The choice that was made for her turned out to be very good one for her. Barnard and Cornell are both very good institutions. It really comes down to fit.</p>
<p>Better social scene at Cornell monydad? Depends on what your idea of a good night is. My D’s is an indy film with friends. So is my S’s.</p>
<p>So Cornell would not be a better social scene than Barnard’s for them. Not that S had access to Barnard’s social scene.</p>
<p>Barnard does not provide the typical college experience and Cornell does. Would not dispute this. Depends on whether or not a student wants this.</p>
<p>And I am thrilled your daughter found a better experience. Would not dispute that. Let’s not get testy.</p>
<p>" have to say this is not D1’s experience at Cornell."
Yeah I was going to let that one go, I haven’t directly asked D2 for comparison on those particular points.</p>
<p>“However, I think it is disingenuous to suggest that the presence of partying and Greeks is the same at both schools.”</p>
<p>Perhaps if either of those things came up, and a contrary view was expressed, that could be disingenuous. Neither of this happened. </p>
<p>Nobody posted about the level of partying at all, as far as I recall.
The only discussion I recall was the need to traipse mindlessly to downtown bars on weekends because there was nothing to do there, at least that they could afford, vs. going to Collegetown house parties. Regarding partying, at Cornell there are different subgroups who conduct themselves differently.There are those who party lots, those who study constantly, and everything in between. Most people take their work very seriously though. But still have fun.</p>
<p>What I said about frats is, 2/3 of the student body isn’t in them, the people who aren’t in them have very little or nothing to do with them,unless they choose to, and the people not in frats, which are double the number of those who are in them, can still have a very good social scene without them. That is anything but disingenuous, it is the reality that I personally experienced there, and my daughter is experiencing there right now. She is having a great time there, and as far as I know she’s never even been inside one there. The only frats I know she’s been to were frats at columbia, and she found them repulsive.</p>
<p>“There is a feeling of feminism …”
is quite present at Cornell, if you want that, my D2 is actually engaged in a number of related activites, which are well represented there.
But it is a diverse place. Certainly it is not a unifying theme there, it is in general a place that celebrates diversity, not unifying themes.
But like many things there people who seek such opportunities out will find them there . Ithaca is a highly progressive city.</p>
<p>Which includes, BTW, indie films, there is such cinema downtown and cornell cinema has its own schedule. I actually came up this summer to see a film,and performance that was only shown elsewhere in a couple places including brooklyn I think. Of course there is more of that, and everything else in NYC. But Cornell cinema is dirt cheap.</p>
<p>“The only discussion I recall was the need to traipse mindlessly to downtown bars on weekends because there was nothing to do there”</p>
<p>Seriously? Can we turn the condescension down just a tad, please?</p>
<p>I withdraw “mindlessly”. They are very smart young women, and if so many of them are doing that there, it must be because there is nothing they prefer doing. Which you may also consider when evaluating relative partying tendencies.</p>
<p>I very rarely go downtown to bars, and I don’t know many people who do. Not only are there plenty of student-populated bars up by campus (Morningside Heights is very college-town-y), but I never have a hard time finding a party to attend on the weekends. </p>
<p>Either way, there is no shortage of things to do on weekends, and your options are practically limitless. People don’t go downtown because there is “nothing they prefer doing” – downtown offers an incredible selection of events, specialty bars, and diverse social atmosphere (rooftop parties in Brooklyn = not possible up at Columbia), so it’s all based on what you want to do that weekend. How is it not SO cool to have so many options?</p>
<p>That said, the huge selection of weekend funtimes means that you generally aren’t surrounded by the exact same people every single time you socialize.</p>