Barnard vs Wellesley

What a nasty little thread. Surely you all can do better.

Barnard’s acceptance rate is much lower: 14.8%. Wellesley is around 29% I believe. Both are great schools though! Depends on the environment you are looking for. Barnard is a much more co-ed experience as it is an undergraduate college of a co-ed Ivy League University. It’s not an insecurity thing to say Barnard is part of CU. It’s a fact. Barnard women get DEGREES from CU. You can’t get more official than that!

The relationship and history between Barnard and CU is interesting.

To clear up the confusion:

http://www.wikicu.com/Columbia-Barnard_relationship

@NYCGirl33 According to this article, Wellesley’s acceptance rate was 21% this year:

http://www.wellesley.edu/news/2017/node/114856

@CrewDad The major point is that Barnard and Columbia confer the same degree. The degrees are conferred by Columbia University. The Barnard diploma has an additional signature and seal, that of the President of Barnard College. But Barnard and Columbia College students all get Columbia University degrees.

Moreover, all Barnard faculty must be approved by the University and hold “joint” appointments. And all tenure decisions are made by the University. So in this way, ultimate authority rests with the University.

Another interesting aside. Beginning in 2012, “Columbia University” was appended after Barnard College in all official correspondence and documents. This was at the direction of Columbia University. So while the “official” line is that Barnard is “institutionally independent”, the University is exerting increasing control. Most people suspect that it is going the way of Harvard and Radcliffe.

@NYCGirl33 but barnard got about 2,000 more applicants than wellesley, because they attract all the girls that want a back door into the ivies, or who don’t really want a women’s college experience. At the end of the day, wellesley is ranked #3 lac, and barnard is #27… that’s pretty telling.

For the OP, I had a choice between wellesley and barnard this year. I chose wellesley, but that’s just my experience. My sister is a wellesley alum who also had to choose between barnard and wellesley. Now she’s getting a Phd at columbia. Her advice to me was to go to wellesley for undergrad, and go to columbia for grad school. but this is a HIGHLY personal process. Go with what your heart is telling you.

@FutureWordsmith Not true. Barnard is only ranked #27 because the rankings do not factor in the shared Barnard/Columbia facilities. For example, Barnard uses all of Columbia’s sports facilities and Barnard women play on Columbia’s teams. According to rankings, however, Barnard does not have sports facilities of its OWN, which lowers the Barnard ranking. The same is said with dining halls, classes, activities, greek life, and etc. None of these University wide things are factored into Barnard’s ranking. Because the Barnard-Columbia relationship is so unique, rankings exclude all the CU classes and facilities that Barnard uses and, therefore, hurts Barnard’s ranking. Also, Barnard is tiny compared to Wellesley since its in NYC and property is super expensive. If rankings included the Barnard-Columbia relationship, it would surely be ranked MUCH MUCH higher.

Also, there is a lot of Barnard pride for Barnard women. Everyone is sooo proud to go to Barnard. People aren’t using it for a back door. 14.8% acceptance rate is something to be proud of. I agree that you should go with what your heart is telling you though.

@doradarling that article is completely wrong. Last year the acceptance rate was 16%, the year before it was 19.5% and this year it is 14.8%. It has not been 21% for a few years.

Here are accurate, up to date articles from both the Barnard website and Columbia Daily Spectator:

Barnard Website:

“With acceptance season underway at thousands of colleges and universities nationwide, Barnard College, the country’s most selective women’s college, has admitted 1,139 young women from around the world to its Class of 2021. The admissions office received a record-breaking 7,716 applications, marking an eight percent increase from last year and a 30 percent increase over the last five years. This year’s class is also the most competitive; the admittance rate, at 14.8 percent, is the lowest in the College’s history, down from 16 percent in 2016.”

https://barnard.edu/news/nations-top-womens-college-admits-most-selective-class-127-year-history

CU Spectator:

“Barnard sent out admissions decisions on Thursday evening to the 7,716 prospective students who applied to the class of 2021, marking an eight percent increase in applications from last year. The college accepted 14.8 percent of applicants, a decrease from 16 percent last year and the lowest in the college’s history.”

http://columbiaspectator.com/news/2017/03/24/barnard-accepts-under-15-percent-of-applicants-for-class-of-2021/

@CrewDad Columbia University lists Barnard College as one of their schools (along with every other undergraduate college and graduate school at Columbia U) Here is the link: http://www.columbia.edu/content/schools-0.html

Also, on Barnard’s 2016-2017 Fact Sheet it states:

Barnard College-Columbia University Partnership:
Barnard College is an affiliated institution of Columbia University, a university community that is academic home to more than 45,000 students from around the world. Through Barnard’s unique and historic partnership with Columbia University, students can register for more than 1,500 courses, use a system of 22 libraries, get involved with more than 500 organizations, participate in NCAA Division I athletics, and attend high-profile events. Graduates’ degrees are conferred by Columbia University.

(https://barnard.edu/fact-sheet)

Columbia Combined 3-2 Program also lists Barnard as an undergraduate school. It states:

Columbia Undergraduate Degree Students
Current students enrolled in Columbia College, Barnard College and full-time students in the School of General Studies are eligible for guaranteed admission under the Combined Plan program. In addition to reviewing the requirements necessary for guaranteed admission, please speak with your academic adviser about relevant prerequisite courses.

https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/learn/academiclife/engineering/combined-plan-program

They are, thus, clearly not completely independent institutions. It is a complicated relationship, but it is 100% PART of Columbia U.

@NYCGirl33: reading comprehension is important. @doradarling’S post said wellesley’s, not barnard’s, acceptance rate is 21%.

I don’t know why it’s so important that barnard MUST be viewed as a part of columbia. Do you not think it could stand on its own merit. I have a lot of respect for barnard and its facilities, and it’s frustrating hearing people bring up columbia in every sentence they mention barnard. That, to me, does the wonderful institution of barnard a disservice.

But that’s just my 2 cents… and this thread has gotten really off topic.

@FutureWordsmith Oh, I see my error now. You are right. I do think Barnard is great on its own as well, but it is part of Columbia which gives the school the best of both worlds in my opinion. However, I do think Wellesley is also an amazing school, and this thread has gotten a bit petty and off topic. I just wanted to make sure the facts were straight.

In regards to Barnard vs Wellesley, I think location is an important factor to look at as well (besides school resources, fit, and etc). I lived abroad in big cities for most of life, so I only looked at schools in big cities. NYC is my favorite city in the world, so it was a no brainer for me. I was very much looking for a city experience. It completely depends on your preference and what you want out of a college experience.

Also, @CrewDad and others who were confused about the Barnard-Columbia relationship. Teachers College has the same EXACT affiliation with Columbia U as Barnard does. However, no one ever questions if they are a graduate school of Columbia. Why are people questioning if Barnard is an undergraduate school of Columbia? You clearly don’t go to Columbia so you wouldn’t know as well as people who DO go here and also why does it matter to you so much? I do think Barnard has sooo many great qualities without its affiliation to Columbia, but it IS affiliated.

@exlibris97 @nycgirl33 Sigh I’m well aware of the facts. I don’t need a lecture. My aunt is a Barnard alumna. My wife (Smith alumna) was accepted at Barnard. D1 (Smith alumna) considered applying. D2 (Vassar alumna) also considered applying. Both decided not to apply because of the location. It’s hard to believe, but not everyone loves NYC.
I posted the wkicu article for the edification of others. If either of you have an issue with wikicu, take it up with the author(s).

@CrewDad No one was “lecturing” you, so I don’t understand the defensiveness. What we were doing is simply pointing out where the Wiki was not exactly complete (and Wikipedia isn’t based on research but rather what people post). Why post if you didn’t want any replies?

@FutureWordsmith I’ve never understood that “backdoor” comment. This would imply that some secret is involved. Admission requirements etc., are all out there in the public domain. And there is a joint faculty committee that periodically discusses admissions policies etc (not to mention that Barnard and Columbia share the same university President).

As for why Barnard is viewed as part of Columbia, the reason is simple: because it is. People go to Barnard largely because it is a women’s college that is part of a major university. Barnard is proud of being a distinctive member of the Columbia community but even its main gate says, “Barnard College of Columbia University”. That IS its identify. That is what has always made it different from the other women’s only" colleges. I don’t see how being part of a incredible research university in any way detracts from Barnard’s standing.

The rankings are a bit of a nonsense. As many people have pointed out, Barnard does not confer degrees. The degrees are conferred by Columbia University. Barnard College and Columbia College students get the same degree and the same diplomas. And the vast majority of courses taken by Barnard College are offered over by Columbia.

This is kind of silly. Wellesley and Barnard are of equivalent academic quality and prestige. Anyone who thinks otherwise because of comparing admit rates or trying to draw some sort of adverse inference because of Barnard’s partnership with Columbia is just grasping at straws. Anyone who tells the OP to pick one of the other because of rankings is wasting her time.

The OP raised questions about campus environment and in those areas the schools are quite different. Urban vs. suburban; unitary college campus vs. a school that is physically and geographically tied to a another campus; a true all women environment compared to a hybrid single gender/ coed environment – and probably a variety of other differences in campus culture that might be apparent to people who have spent time on both campuses.

However, the OP hasn’t been back. If I were in her shoes I would be frustrated that this thread has devolved into yet another Barnard/Columbia debate rather than answer her questions about modern language departments or community/social scene.

I guess the only part relevant is her question is that Columbia/Barnard community/social scene is essentially identical There are a few Barnard-only traditions, and Barnard has its own dorms-- so the Barnard student’s experience will differ from the Columbia student’s experience to that extent. But beyond that students with common interests on either side of the street are going to probably end up participating in similar activities and socializing in similar venues.

Columbia has fraternities & sororities, so to the extent that a prospective student is interested in that social scene, that is another differentiating factor from Wellesley. (My daughter’s concept of socializing did not include frat parties and she had no interest in joining a sorority, so I can’t provide any more information beyond the fact that they exist.)

If I were the OP I would note which current undergrads actually answered her questions in a helpful manner. 8-|

The reason to attend Barnard - or any women’s college - is simple: in any field, in any profession, the women who have graduated from women’s colleges are extremely confident, have clear, impressive, voices, and are highly likely to pursue careers over the long-haul. This is true whether students have attended Barnard, Wellesley, Smith, etc., So the more useful question to ask yourself, if you are fortunate enough to have the choice between, say, Wellesley and Barnard, is not which one is a better school, but which one is a better"fit" for you? Each of the women’s colleges, like all colleges/universities, possess distinctive cultures and communities. Where do you see yourself living happily, leaning deeply, for four years? Best of luck!