<p>Greetings and thanks for indulging a newcomer with questions. My eldest is a rising senior, about top 10%, 690m/730v/800w, white male from NJ, active music, football for three years, volunteers at legal organization for musicians, etc etc -- this is not, however, a "chances?" post so I will spare you the rest of the bio. Rather, I am interested in parents' general thoughts, particularly those of you who have gone through this, on the EC process. On the one hand, ED obviously bolsters admissions odds at some schools (including Swarthmore where he would like) but on the other, obviouly you spend it once and it is gone. How have people rolled that dice, and with what odds? I do not think he gets into Swarthmore on RD; I think he has decent-to-outside shot on ED. He is also interested in Vassar and Wesleyan, either of which he would happily go to, and is worried about "wasting" ED chit on Swarthmore and hurting admissions odds at other schools. For those of you who have gone through this risk/reward calculus, what are your thoughts and what was your general approach? Many thanks.</p>
<p>My S went ED at his school of choice and was accepted. He had 8 other applications ready to go out. The ED most probably advanced his chances, but, the main thing was he WANTED to go there above the rest. If he had to apply to the other schools he would have but he wanted to go to his ED school the most. Don't go ED unless it really is his # 1 school and if is competitive, it will help. Also, if financial aid is a strong consideration, don't go ED because that will hurt you financially. My friend's S wanted NYU so much but had to go RD because she had 5 children total and was nervous that he wouldn't receive any aid if he went ED.He wound up getting in RD but had to sweat it out until April when the RD decisions came out.</p>
<p>Celtic, Welcome. My son was admitted ED to Williams. He's just about to start his senior year and I would say had he to do it all over again he would do the same in a heartbeat. The ED system worked well for our family and, if finances permit, I would suggest it to others.</p>
<p>Risk/reward is a good way to put the proposition but you have to be careful not to overthink your strategy. Your son should follow his heart on this one.</p>
<p>The first, and most important, risk to appraise is financial. General wisdom is if you will depend on financial aid then don’t apply ED. I don’t subscribe to this theory 100%, but it is true that you will not be able to compare packages if you are tied into an ED school, so think this through financially before proceeding. </p>
<p>Assuming that money is not at issue (or that you are reasonably assured that your son’s ED choice will come up with your minimum needs) then the next question he (and you) should ask is “If I don’t get into College A under RD will I always regret NOT applying ED?” If the answer is yes, then apply ED to College A even if College B offers a better chance of admissions. </p>
<p>In other words, you need to weigh the risk of NOT applying early as well as the risk of applying. </p>
<p>Now for this to work, the student’s academic standing should be in reasonable range for College A. A wild longshot is still a wild longshoot whether it’s ED or RD, but a student with reasonably suitable statistics and personality match WILL stand a better chance ED than RD, even more so if s/he can bring a special talent or demographic to the table.</p>
<p>In your son’s case, if he really wants Swarthmore, then he should definitely apply ED to Swarthmore and not try to second guess his chances by applying ED to Vassar or Wesleyan. The good news is that many schools (Wesleyan is one!) have EDII so if the first choice doesn’t come through there’s an equal shot at #2.</p>
<p>The only other caveat I would give is to get ALL those applications done well in advance of the ED acceptance date. Psychologically, it’s an extreme contradiction: the student needs to love his/her ED choice wholeheartedly but at the same time steel him/herself for possible rejection, which is difficult for anyone but especially for a hormone driven teen. So, the best approach is to toss the ED application in the mail and forget about it. Work diligently on the other applications and should bad news arrive in mid-December be ready to roll with the others.</p>
<p>some schools have two rounds of ED - so if you are rejected at your first choice ED, you can still apply second round ED to choice #2 (assuming you are willing to give up the chance of going to choice #1 if you get in there RD, since ED is still binding).</p>
<p>At least when we were looking into things a couple of years ago, Vassar had 2 ED rounds - and at least at their info session they claimed there was no distinction in admissions decisions between those who applied round 1 and those applying round 2.</p>
<p>before deciding to apply ED your S should be absolutely sure that the school is really his first choice. if he fears he will later regret not being able to choose one of the other schools on his list, he isn't ready to apply ED. </p>
<p>there is a lot of pressure these days to apply Ed because of the belief it boosts admissions chances (don't know how clear that is though -- i've read some places the advantage isn't as great as some think and is in fact getting less as more and more apply ED) but you can't loose sight that this is an important decision that can affect where you S will be for 4 years -- he should make sure is ready to commit to his ED choice school. (tough balance, to feel its clearly your 1st choice and not set yourself up for too big a disappointment if you don't get in ED)</p>
<p>This just came up on the other thread and I think it is a relevant consideration here:</p>
<p>Adding to anxiousmom's warning - if you have any chance at need-based aid, or IF YOUR KID HAS ANY CHANCE AT MERIT BASED AID at schools where s/he might apply, do NOT go ED. The "boost" is ephemeral perhaps and imo not worth forgoing the $$ you might achieve at other schools.</p>
<p>I speak from experience, since we expected no need-based aid, we saw no reason for S not to go ED. He simultaneously received substantial merit $$ from an EA school - a HUGE surprise to us(his ED school permitted EA apps). It was a major decision point and issue. In his case, with his hs GC's aid and support, he was able to undo his ED and choose the EA school, which he loved. But this will not always be possible. Note that, in the relatively short time between submitting his ED/EA apps and receiving the decisions, he had received a lot of contact from the EA school - profs, deans, alums, students - it had elevated that school in his personal rankings quite a bit. IMO, a firm and final commitment by a 17 or 18-year old in the first month or so of hs senior year is premature for all but a precious few.</p>
<p>The pressure to benefit from the ED "boost" is strong (internal and external pressure), but when you see the results for many ED apps, you will begin to question how much of a boost there is.</p>
<p>Great question, celticbar! For what it's worth, here's my (probably outside the CC mainstream) take. I wonder if this this decision doesn't provide a real "teachable moment." Consider three of the possible outcomes:</p>
<p>The dream scenario: Son gets into SWAT, his first-choice, ED. He learns to set his aspirations high and go after his dream.</p>
<p>The unlikely "nightmare" scenario: Son is rejected ED from first-choice, and then doesn't get into his 2nd or 3rd picks. In your son's case, there will still be many choices among fantastic, top-20 LACs (where he'll doubtless be happy and get a superb education); he also has time to consider schools that give merit aid. He learns to set his aspirations high and go after his dreams, and that sometimes disappointment can become opportunity . . . </p>
<p>The play-it safe-scenario: Son applies ED to 2nd or 3rd choice and is admitted, but it's inevitable that he will spend time next fall asking, "what if?"</p>
<p>You can guess where my sympathies lie, but however your family comes down in the end, it seems to me worth discussing the underlying values that inform this decision.</p>
<p>The "nightmare" scenario is not necessarily all that unlikely.</p>
<p>A friend of my daughter's, with SAT's of about 2350 and other academic credentials to match, applied last year to one of the HYPSM schools ED/SCEA (I'm not going to specify which because I want to keep the identity of the school vague) and to two slightly less selective schools RD, along with a couple of safety schools. Not only was she turned down at the ED school, she was also turned down at the two backup schools and is now attending a safety. Several other kids from the same high school were accepted into each of this kid's two backup schools; all of them had applied ED, and all had lesser credentials than this kid did.</p>
<p>The play-it-safe scenario for you son is to apply to Vassar ED (or maybe Wesleyan, but I'm not sure if Wesleyan is truly less selective than Swarthmore; Vassar is definitely less selective). Whether this is a good idea depends on his personality. If he will be haunted forever by the "what if?" question, then it isn't the optimum strategy. But if his highest priority is to avoid going to his safety school, it might be.</p>
<p>I believe ED should only be used when a student has truly Decided, Early, that one school is far and away their first and definite choice.....And when the family can support the choice and is committed to financing that choice should it be possible. (This also means making the student aware of any responsiblity they will have for earnings or seeking scholarships from outside sources.)</p>
<p>If those criteria are met, ED can make the admissions season simpler.</p>
<p>I think it is best to ignore all hypotheses about ways to "game" the process. Anytime someone is supposing maybe they "should" apply ED I think it may be a sign they should wait because it sounds like it is not internally driven. </p>
<p>Maybe it would be better if ED stood for Extraordinarily Definite, no doubts.
Many kids and parents do have doubts, for good reason, early in the process and therefore ED is a slippery slope. RD (Reasonable Doubts) is a broader, more stable path.</p>
<p>I'm a single mom whose son wants to apply ED to his favorite college. Since I earn under $45,000, we hope for financial aid. If he gets in and the financial aid package does not meet our needs, can he get out of the ED commitment? Several websites say you can due to financial need, but is that really true (or are there loopholes?) Any advice would be greatly appreciated.</p>
<p>if you are a single mom and your kid needs financial aid do NOT apply ED --I think it's a very bad idea. You cannot always get out of it. What if they meet your need with loans? That's the chance you take, and I don't see how it can ever be worth the risk.</p>
<p>Before ruling it out, I would definitely consider opening a detailed dialogue with an admissions officer about how this works. If you are candid about your need and if you student is a candidate they are motivated to have, then you should be able to get realisitic information about what the terms are for meeting need and for withdrawing if what they offer is not acceptable to your situation. You and your son need to be willing to take the risk that he could get a much better financial offer elsewhere. And he needs to be willing to take the risk of being dissappointed if they say no or do not offer adequate aid. But if after all the investigation he and you still feel passionately that it is the right school, it could be worth it and I think it is definitely worth some dialogue before you reject the possibility.</p>
<p>I agree. Last year, there was a mom who posted on the Columbia board who asked for a ball park figure of where aid was likely to be. They gave her a good idea, and they also told her that, after the ED decision, that they could talk more if it wasn't doable. The amount was, and he was able to go there.</p>
<p>Schools which pledge to meet total need do not, in my experience, do so with loans alone. So ED to one of them would probably be safe, thoug h I agree honest dialog is important ahead of time.</p>
<p>I think that lower income students are sometimes wrongfully cautioned away from ED because of fears which may not be warranted, depending on the circumstances. I know lots of Financial Aid qualified students who have done ED and been able to matriculate.</p>
<p>Communication and research are the keys.</p>
<p>If finances are not a factor, I would have your son apply ED to Swarthmore if that is really what he wants. As mentioned above, he could potentially apply ED II to either Wesleyan and Vassar if he is rejected. A deferral makes for a trickier situation. However, my son had fairly similar stats to yours (no sports, lots of leadership though varied ECs) and was admitted to both Vassar and Wesleyan in the RD round. Showing genuine interest is crucial to all three schools, as are the essays. Vassar also requires a graded piece of analytical writing.</p>
<p>As far as Vassar being easier to get into than Wesleyan, I'm not sure about that, though I'd venture to say that Wesleyan would like folks to think that. We met a lot of cross-admits at Accepted Students Days at both schools. Some chose Vassar, some chose Wes. (My son chose Vassar.) </p>
<p>He did not apply to Swarthmore - hated it when we visited. Different strokes for different folks!</p>
<p>Balboa -- if your son's dad is living & whereabouts are known, his income and assets will be included within the financial aid calculation whether or not he actually will contribute. So unless by "single mom" you truly mean there is no other parent anywhere in the picture, you could be in trouble with an ED application.</p>
<p>celticbar -- you said you do not think your son would get into Swat RD -- if by that you mean that you think that Swat is a big reach for him, then I don't think he would get in ED either. I don't believe that in the common belief that ED is a boost for borderline candidates, because I don't see how that would benefit the college in any way. Why should Swat fill up limited spaces with students who are not quite up to their standards, when they know they will have many more highly qualified applicants coming in the RD round? I think that ED is a benefit to students who are strong but not remarkable candidates in the RD round, simply because there is also no good reason for Swat to turn away a fully qualified candidate who has promised to attend if admitted.</p>
<p>I think the stats that show somewhat smaller average SAT scores for the ED admitted group are misleading, because recruited athletes are strongly encouraged by the coaches to apply ED, and legacy status is probably given much stronger weight in the ED round. So you've got the hooked applicants coming in early, getting in by virtue of their hooks, despite lower than typical SAT scores. </p>
<p>My daughter got into several colleges that were extreme reaches in the RD round, so there really is no way to predict admissions in any case. For financial reasons, ED was never an option, and I am glad that my daughter had 9 colleges to choose from in the spring rather than 1 in December, despite the anxiety-filled winter months. It doesn't sound like your son is all that sure yet where he wants to go -- so I think the best approach is to keep your options open, widen the college search to include more solid match schools where admission is very likely, and be sure to include at least one true safety that your son would be comfortable attending. With LACs there are many, many excellent choices.</p>
<p>Calmom--I don't agrree that's what she meant. We all know that schools like Swat turn down many, many more non-borderline candidates than those they take--there are just too many well-qualified applicants to begin to take them all.</p>
<p>My S is very, very qualified to be at the college he's at. But with a single digit RD acceptance rate, I am not at all sure he'd have been accepted; not because he was borderline, but because there are so many other well-qualified candidates. In the ED round, an application can get much more scrutiny than in the RD round, and subtler things like a great essay or wonderful recs can get, I think, a better read than later on. And the school's benefit is getting someone they know want to be there. So I can see why the OP feels that ED is a good idea. I repeat that before rejecting it, she call the SWarthmore FA office and get a feel for how they will see her son's financial situation. Other posters have done that with good results.</p>
<p>I'm curious why we think that Celtic is concerned about money. What I understood from the OP is that s/he wants his/her son to pick an ED school that he would be reasonably likely to get accepted to. From what we've seen of Swarthmore admissions, I would say that there is a BIG advantage to applying ED -- as long as the applicant is in the academic ballpark. Also, since yield is very important at LACs I believe they are slightly more “forgiving” in the ED round when they have a captive audience. It’s a win-win situation for both the applicant and the college.</p>
<p>My son’s experience was similar to that of Garland’s son. He was well qualified to do the work at his very selective college and brought a lot to the table, but he was a lopsided candidate. Yes, he might have been accepted in the RD round, but then again when compared to a larger pool of equally or more qualified applicants he might have lost out. I think ED helped push him over the top.</p>
<p>I agree with you Garland that ED can work for applicants who are clearly qualified for admission -- in fact, that's exactly what I said -- it helps "strong but not remarkable" students because they are the ones who don't need help with anything other than making sure that their application gets noticed. (By "remarkable" I simply mean any student who has qualities that would stand out and be noticed at any stage of the process).</p>
<p>My impression from the opening post is that she thought that her son was more well matched for Wes & Vassar than Swat, so that is why I thought that maybe there was some aspect that made Swat a significant reach. Under that set of circumstances, Wes & Vassar would be the places where the ED application would be more likely to change results. All I am saying is I don't think ED turns a reach into a match. </p>
<p>You might look a it this way: if theoretically the applicant has a 1 out of 10 chance in RD of getting into college A, and a 1 out of 4 chance of getting into college, B -- and ED increases chances of admission by a factor of +1 - then the ED applicant would then have a 1 out of 5 chance of getting into college A and a 50% chance of getting into college B. My numbers are invented, but the theory would stay the same: the probabilities on ED favor the college where the kid also has the better chances RD. Which is exactly what the kid is already thinking when he worries about possibly "wasting" his ED option on Swarthmore.</p>
<p>I'm not clear from the OP if there have been campus visits but they are REALLY important if applying ED. I would encourage an overnight visit and attending at least one class, maybe meeting with a prof in an area of interest.</p>
<p>Well, first, thanks, because this is exactly the kind of discussion my question hoped to provoke. The contrasting views back and forth, and some of you have obviously kicked these ideas around, are what I was hoping to see.</p>
<p>To clarify one thing -- I never mentioned financial aid and it is not a factor. I believe that came up in a reply and then another poster picked it up. To clarify another, we live near Swarthmore and have been near and on the campus a lot so he is familiar with it and knows a lot of alums, but I agree completely with the notions that he has to truly want it, and that he needs to see other campuses, and those visits are all planned prior to the ED date.</p>
<p>It is CalMom's posts that have me most intrigued. She asks rhetorically what possible good it does a college to admit a borderline ED when they have lots of qualified RDs. I don't know that the following answer is true (if I knew ANYTHING I wouldn't be asking such stupid questions), but I had heard and read that schools watch their yield rates zealously, and by definition ED increases yield rate. The numbers just seem too skewed at some schools to dismiss that out of hand, hence my original question.</p>