Hey everyone,
I’m currently in the decision phase and I’m a bit stuck. I’ve been accepted to Bates, my top choice, and I love everything about it. However, it’s expensive and would require loans to make it work. I know there are outside scholarships and loan repayment employers and government programs, but I’m not sure it’s the smartest plan for my degree path. Below are my options:
Bates (COA 61k per year)
Pros
-Close to home
-Majoring in earth and climate sciences, respected in this field
-No greek life (positive for me)
-It’s the perfect size for me
Cons
-Lewiston is not great but I don’t mind it
-Would need to take out quite a bit in loans
University of Delaware (COA 36k per year)
Pros
-Wouldn’t need loans
-Respected for environmental science, Climate Scholars, Lewes campus, etc.
-Accepted to Honors College (many perks)
Cons
-It’s a full day’s drive from home
-It’s a pretty big party school
-Don’t vibe with students (this is a severe generalization but from what my parents have told me, who both went there, it’s not the “crunchy” student body I’m looking for)
University of Vermont (COA 44k per year)
Pros
-LOVE Burlington
-Great for environmental science
-Pretty campus
-Vibe with student body
Cons
-Not super affordable but doable, would most likely not need loans or very little
-No special perks like Honors College
So I’m basically trying to decide if I should follow my heart or follow my brain. The smartest choice would probably be UD but I’m not sure I can see myself being happy there. I’m sure I would find my people and end up having a great time but I still love the other two more, and have grown attached to Bates specifically. If this helps, I’ve also been accepted to: Kenyon, Hobart and William Smith, UNH, Northeastern, and Dickinson (in case someone thinks any of these would be a better fit). Thank you all for your help.
If Vermont is at the threshold of possibly needing loans, that means that Bates would need about $17k loans per year, which would require parent loans or parent-cosigned student loans. This seems like a bad idea in general.
What are the net prices of these schools?
For fit factors other than the all important affordability, would it be correct to assume that you prefer:
Earth / climate / environmental science major.
Not fraternity / sorority dominated or party heavy.
Close to home (how close?).
“Crunchy” student body.
?
Note that the absence of fraternities and sororities does not necessarily mean lack of partying or use of recreational drugs (including alcohol). Bates has some healthy living residences, implying that recreational drug (including alcohol) use is common around campus elsewhere.
I would be cautious about the loans. It sounds like you would need to have your parents take out loans for Bates (you as a student are only allowed to take something like $27,000 total in federally subsidized loans over four years).
I agree about Burlington VT. It is a very attractive small city. UVM does indeed have a very nice campus and it is very good for environmental science. I do not think that the honors college really matters. I know someone who was in the honors college there, and dropped it because it just did not seem to be adding anything that they cared about. This particular student has since gotten accepted to a very good graduate program at a top university in their field (and is well along in the graduate program and doing well).
Both of my daughters graduated without any loans. Both were very happy that they did. Both immediately did something that they could not have done if they had any loans. One took a dream job that paid badly (it could pay badly because it was that attractive of a job). This led to another good job that contributed in a major way to her getting into the great graduate program that she is in now. The other had saved some money from internships and was able to travel in Spain for nearly three months. Not having any student loans has helped both of them quite a bit.
Bates is great- but you’ll need your parents to sign loans beyond what you can borrow as an undergrad- and that gets into serious red flag territory.
What are the costs of the other programs? Put it all out there and we can try to help. I think UVM is a fantastic and underrated university- but “not super affordable” scares me. Your first job could be for an advocacy organization- doing important work, but in a high cost of living area with lousy pay. Who/what/when on your loan repayment???
Agree that Delaware does not attract a majority crunchy population. You could find your people- I’m sure- every university is going to have students running programs on sustainability, working with the administration on reducing solid waste and carbon use, etc. But it won’t be as obvious as it is in Burlington!
All your other options seem great for what you are looking for as well- any of them affordable?
@DadTwoGirls@blossom@ucbalumnus Thank you all for your help. Here are the other programs:
Northeastern 81k/yr - definitely not an option
Hobart and William Smith - 38k/yr
Kenyon - 63k/yr
UNH - 27k/yr - in-state
Dickinson - 45k/yr
To clarify on a couple points: UVM is affordable in comparison to Bates but I would probably need to take out a small amount in loans (no more than 10k total). I live in New Hampshire and ideally would not like to be a plane ride away, so UD would be my ideal max in terms of travel time. I’m not looking for a big party school but I’m okay with other people doing so. I don’t like the idea of frats/sororities because of the hazing and cliquey aspect and potential pressure to participate. I’m open to any of the schools mentioned above, I just featured my top 3 options in my original post.
We know a number of very happy grads from both Delaware and Vermont…and UNH. I don’t think you can go wrong at any of those.
You will find your tribe regardless of where you attend college.
Bates is a great school…but I wouldn’t call it a granola place at all. Maybe things have changed since I was there (about 20 years ago to visit), but at that time it impressed me as a pretty preppy place.
I think you need to think about your future also. Having large loans to repay is a burden, and can limit other things you might want to do.
I think you can be happy at a lot of schools. At the same time, you can go to the dream and not be happy.
You know what would definitely not make you happy - being strangled by debt for years to come.
So your top choice with debt no longer is!!!
Also, outside scholarships for 99.5% are a no. I mean, both my kids did get - but $1K and $2K one time from my employer - have your parents check with theirs.
And loan repayment plans are rare - unless you’re in a specific program or field - so you can’t count on that.
To me, I’d start from the bottom cost wise - what’s wrong with UNH. Yes, there are partiers at many schools - but you could also find the clan that doesn’t…
But I see Hobart and if you want an LAC - it and environmental science - other than it’s a bit away from home - could it be a compromise? Have you visited campus?
UVM will be strong in environmental. You know who also will - HWS. Why isn’t it an option?
@tsbna44 This is good to put into perspective. They’re definitely all options. The biggest flaw for HWS is the location, since it’s pretty isolated and in winter there would not be much to do. From family members that went there and from friends, I think I would prefer somewhere closer to a city. For UNH, it has a stigma in my area as being the school that “everyone” goes to and I was hoping to go out of state/away from the tens of people from my school that are headed there. I know this is flawed reasoning and I’m still considering UNH and HWS. I did get into UNH Honors which is a plus, and I went to an open house there and found the networking to be really good.
Did you talk to kids at HWS? Some schools will keep you busy on campus that you needn’t worry about the surroundings. . Both Rochester and Syracuse are within range. And it’s a beautiful area.
I get it UNH but you could have done U Maine then. At least the kids at UNH won’t be strangled by debt in a field that is likely low paying or requires further schooling.
UNH is close enough to Portsmouth. U Del still a bit away from a city of substance.
Seems like you’re only open to the Northeast given you want to be close to home.
Whatever you do - forgetting how it seems at UNH - debt is not your friend!!
Would you possibly have any interest in UVM’s Agroecology or Plant Science majors? NH residents can get the New England reciprocity rate for these majors, which would drop your net cost by another 12.5K/year. You’d likely have time to double-major or minor in earth/climate science, if these programs looked interesting as well.
While environmental passion is more pervasive at UVM, I would expect that the Climate Scholars at Delaware would be a relatively “crunchy” cohort as well. Sometimes advocacy can be more meaningful when you’re not already in an echo chamber!
Bates is a great school, but in a field where you’ll likely need some grad school, and where you may not want to have to choose your future employment based on payscale, staying debt free for undergrad can be pretty important.
Some great advice above! I want to double down on this:
With your career interests you need to assume that you will be getting no/low paid internships. You need to assume that entry level jobs in your field will be poorly paid. You need to assume that some grad school will be required -and that it might be expensive.
Debt is imaginary right now, but the reality is very very tough.
With respect to HWS, its environmental studies program is excellent and seemingly under-recognized. For several of your preferences, this represents an option that you may want to consider strongly.
If you do end up choosing UNH, remember that it belongs to National Student Exchange. NSE is a consortium of ~200 schools. Students can do up to a year at any participating school, credits transfer automatically, and you only pay in-state tuition. Some really interesting schools belong including Cal Poly SLO, UGa, UMass Amherst, St. Olaf (in case you want to spend a year at an LAC), University of Montreal, UHawaii. National Student Exchange - Campuses / Location
Environmental studies is typically social science focused, while environmental science is typically natural science focused, though each may include some course work in the other area. The ENV course list at HWS indicates a lean toward social sciences, although a student could add some additional science electives from other departments.
That major in agroecology sounds really interesting. I am a huge fan of agriculture departments at flagships. Ag departments often offer “applied” versions of majors found within different schools in the university. For example, a family member of mine started off as an economics major within the College of Liberal Arts at our flagship. But he was having trouble with the foreign language requirement, so switched his senior year to the Dept of Agriculture where he was an Applied Economics major. It was no problem as ~3/4 of the required classes were the same. It ended up being really great, because he had a ton of great job opportunities at graduation. He found out from his employer that they preferred to hire from the Ag department as they felt the students were just as bright, while also being harder workers and more down to earth.
No pressure to participate. In fact most complain that the groups are too exclusive and they can’t participate.
At any bigger public school (UVM, Delaway, UNH) there are going to be Greeks, other social clubs, academic clubs, student govt. etc. No one joins them all. There are sports that some enjoy (watching and participating) while others don’t pay any attention to them.
