That’s cool, @doschicos. I enjoy your posts. But that is about a three hour round-trip difference.
I traveled to NYC today. I approached and crossed the GWB in about two minutes. Though I’m not from the area, so I can’t say how long it usually takes.
^ You either got lucky or it was 3AM.
College students who go to school in the northeast drive all over. They think nothing of getting in their cars and driving 4- 5- 6 hours for a weekend. My son has done some trips that leave me shaking my head but then I remember when I was his age I used to drive with my friends non-stop from Boulder to Syracuse (24 hrs straight.)
While we’re beating the location comparison to death, another advantage to Bates is access to skiing. If you’re going to live through the cold winters of the Northeast, skiing is a fun diversion . Plenty of great skiing not too far from Bates and I know the school arranges buses to the ski resorts. Plus they have an amazing and active outing club. There isn’t much good skiing near Colgate. Sunday River vs Toggenburg Mountain - no comparison. Plus the ocean… And lobster…
Hey, I grew up skiing Tog and Labrador! They were both nice mountains.
There is actually a ski area about 10 minutes from Bates campus. http://lostvalleyski.com/
As there appears to be some confusion about transportation options from central NY to NYC, I thought I might chime in.
There are a few choices if driving to the Big Apple and mine is to use the Tappan Zee Bridge. It does not take hours to cross. Ten minutes should do it. Ok?
One can also take the Amtrak train from Utica (I know, I know, you’ve said it’s “not much”) and then relax for the ride to Albany and then down the magnificent Hudson River in 5 hours (and not obsess about which bridges the train crosses) into Penn Station. The Utica to Boston route is even shorter.
Does that help round up the options for you?
About the Colgate Outing Club, I expect you will find a lot of opportunities for recreation described on colgate.edu. That comes with the territory with a dynamic college setting as large (have you checked out our facilities page within gocolgateraiders.com/inside athletics and compared them to what’s at Bates?) and well-resourced as that of Colgate.
And there is skiing nearby, too, for what it’s worth, and lobster deliveries to our Hamilton Village Farmer’s Market every Saturday, right on the Green.
Good luck with your college searches!
@markham - Rather than a tit for tat list on points made by some of us on why we like Bates and its environment, what do you think makes Colgate great? What differentiates Colgate from other LACs to help the OP? We have established that academic caliber and ranking is fairly equal between the two schools and that Colgate has a higher endowment and greek life.
My personal view is easy to articulate:
1- Colgate is dynamic: 1000+ more students and 100+ more faculty for starters.
2- Superior facilities- as in science labs, the library/info tech center (did you see Princeton Review?)
3- A more challenging and ambitious “front porch” relative to Division 1 sports, club and rec sports and facilities- that everyone, participant or otherwise, can enjoy. A real source of school spirit and pride that endures.
4- A vital alumni and career assistance network: more than 320 alumni club events per year, larger than any LAC but one.
5- The charming yet small town of Hamilton which together with Colgate’s magnificent and large campus makes for a great 4 years at this safe, welcoming and beautiful part of NY state.
6- The Core Curriculum, a mainstay and hallmark of a Colgate education, decades old.
7- Great financial aid (PR and Kiplinger’s).
8- Robust and popular study groups, enjoyed by more than 2/3 of students, located domestically and abroad and the sole one at the NIH in Maryland, to the best of my knowledge.
Colgate projects a vibe that it strives actively to be the “best liberal arts univerity in the country” and that comes partly from its ability to distinguish itself on its own terms and apart from many small LACs. Consequently, and as I expected, the applicant pool’s crossover is heavily skewed away from those small LACs and towards schools larger than Colgate but with their own characteristics, different and similar. The applicant pool, as I understand it, and as I did myself many years ago, self-selects towards small LACs or schools like Colgate and even larger schools.
It’s up to the applicant candidates to get the message themselves with colgate.edu and gocolgateraiders.com (terrific resources, on their own and relatively speaking, don’t you think?), a visit and advice from those who know them.
I hope that helps.
Go 'gate!
Further to my list of 8 points (an auspicious number in many parts of East Asia), I would like to add another distinguishing characteristic of Colgate.
We have a lucky number, 13, and it relates to its founding by 13 men with 13 dollars, 13 prayers amd 13 articles, as the story goes. And we have Colgate Days, the most recent being 13 March, 2015 when 1700 students and alumni performed community service. On 13 December, 2013, Colgate Day, Colgate raised $5.1 million in one day via media outreach- a record in college fundraising.
Yes, Colgate distinguishes itself and its reputation is distinctive.
Go 'gate!
“there is literally is literally nothing in Utica”
That might be true if:
- You don't like art, especially Thomas Cole. The Munson-Williams-Proctor Institute is a terrific art museum.
- You don't like the thought of taking a scenic rail trip to the Adirondacks out of the historic Utica train station (The Adirondack Scenic Railroad).
I was wondering about the assertion that academics are similar at both schools. Then I found that there is no Department of Computer Science at Bates while perusing the course catalog. What’s that about?
No CS department? That does seem significant.
Aside from strong academics, a beautiful campus, friendly students, dedicated faculty, and small classes, characteristics that are, frankly, shared by the majority of LACs of the calibre we’re talking about, here are some things I think make Bates great…
Short Term. It’s a bit like some schools’ Winter Term but in the spring. While many schools seem to use their winter terms as a break from academics (my brother took a bartending course at WIlliams) Bates embraces the opportunities inherent in having a 5 week block of time after the finish of the two regular-length semesters. Students take an on-campus course, do independent research under a prof., study abroad on one of Bates’ off campus Short Term courses, or use the opportunity provided by the Short Term they aren’t required to do to get a jump on the summer job market or do something else.
My 4 years at Bates I had 4 different Short Term experiences-
- Did an internship at the Augusta Mental Health Institute, the state mental hospital. We lived on the grounds during the week and worked directly with patients on the wards.
- ST off. Spent the first 2 months working to raise the money to backpack around Europe the second two.
- Took a great course on the 60’s in America team taught by a trio of professors from the History, Music, and English departments.
- Travelled to China for a Short Term course on the arts of China. When the course finished many of my classmates stayed in China to travel or study for the summer.
Senior Thesis. Everyone does one, so it’s not just open to honors students. (Approved students may choose to do a year-long honors thesis.) You get to work one on one with your thesis advisor, a faculty member of your choice, doing original research. It may sound daunting but because something like 98% of students do a thesis support is built in. You’ll work hard but it’s a rewarding academic experience.
Size. There are some real advantages to being small school. You’ll know your classmates and professors well.
When my son was struggling with academics the Dean of Students met with him repeatedly. He’s encouraged him to drop by whenever he feels it would be helpful, and my son has taken him up on the offer. Job internships, research, leadership roles, informal interaction with faculty, are all in abundance.
First Year Seminars. Every student does one freshman year. You and a small group of your peers work with a faculty member who serves as your first year advisor. There’s a wide variety of FYS’s, but all focus on improving your critical thinking and writing skills. Right from the start you have an advisor who knows you and has a sense of where you are in your academic skills.
Lewiston/Auburn. Let’s face it. Lewiston isn’t beautiful. On the other hand, it has a lot to offer. Interested in medicine? Do an internship at Central Maine Medical Center, a major teaching hospital a 5 minute walk from campus.
Want some solitude? The Thorncrag Bird Sanctuary, 372 acres of beautiful wooded trails open to the public is a 1.5 mile walk in the other direction. Like good food? Walk 10 minutes into Lewiston to one of many great restaurants. Tripadvisor lists 182 restaurants in Lewiston/Auburn, so you’ll have a lot of options (I recommend Fuel). Afterwards you could do some shopping, go to a movie or do a beer tasting at the Baxter Brewing Company, a Lewiston maker of craft beers.
Student-Athletes. Bates takes both parts of this equation seriously. Unlike Colgate, Bates doesn’t schedule any classes to conflict with normal practice times. All classes are finished by 4 except for a few evening seminars which meet after sports are over. That means that Bates students don’t have to choose between playing a sport and taking a course that interests them. 35% of Bates students play a varsity sport, and many more play intramural or club sports.
The food. It’s seriously good. Bates has its own chefs (no Sodexo) and those chefs serve the food so students can tell them directly what they do and don’t like. Vegan bar, fresh meats and fish, sushi, pasta, a brick pizza oven, tons of fresh fruit, yoghurt, etc. and the food’s unlimited.
Puddle Jump. Who would be crazy enough to cut a hole in the ice in Lake Andrews (the Puddle) then jump into the frigid water in January? Most of the Bates student body. It’s fun, I promise.
http://www.bates.edu/news/2015/01/26/slideshow-2015-puddle-jump-hits-great-heights/
Inclusivity. Bates was founded by Abolitionists and admitted both women and people of color right from the start. It was the second college in the nation to do so, just behind Oberlin. By inclusivity I mean much more than “we’re nice to women and brown skinned people”. Bates’ history of inclusivity permeates campus life and is reflected in many ways. For instance, while many schools are trying to figure out how to shut down Greek life or deal with issues caused by it, there have never been frats and sororities at Bates. All housing is done by lottery, so while some housing, such as the Fry Street houses and the Village are more popular, all students will have equal access to them over the course of 4 years. There’s one dining commons, and it’s all-inclusive, so everyone has the same food choices and eats in the same place and on the same schedule. When I was there to visit my son I was impressed by how mixed the tables were-no lacrosse players sitting here, Asian kids there, and debaters at a third table. The tables seemed to be very mixed in terms of race, gender and “type” of student. I know my son’s dozen closest friends include kids of all types-international students, New England preppies, POC, athletes, artists, men and women. Every student is automatically a member of the Bates Outing Club, one of the oldest outing clubs in the nation. The debate society competes successfully on the highest levels but welcomes all comers. You don’t have to try out to join.
My husband tells the story of his arrival at Bates freshman year. He was a skinny international student, and as this was the post “Revenge of the Nerds” 80’s, when as he dragged his suitcases from the bus stop he was approached by a couple of football players coming from pre-season practice he steeled himself. To his surprise they asked what dorm he was in, picked up his bags, escorted him across campus, and carried his things up to his new room. They had no role as official greeters, no one had asked them to help. They were simply a couple of nice football playing kids who saw a slightly nerdy kid with an accent as part of their community.
^ “Student-athletes”
I consider that a pro for Bates. D3 athletics without scholarship recruits seems more pedagogically sound.
@DocOc97 Hi there and congrats on this happy dilemma. I did not read the whole thread because it was getting pretty contentious… but thought I would weigh in. I personally attended Colgate, and I live in Maine between Portland and Bates. I actually transferred out of Colgate for a variety of reasons, one of which was my profound sense of isolation. Yeah, it’s a pretty little town, but little is the operative word. And the drive from Colgate to anywhere else is long. And there isn’t really that much worth driving to, unless you go all the way to NYC. At least, that is how I felt.
Bates is in an ugly mill town (although the campus itself is quite beautiful), but there are lots of great places an easy drive away. Brunswick (with Bowdoin College) and most especially Portland, which is an amazingly vibrant city. We have a serious foodie culture with terrific restaurants at all price points, a vibrant music scene, the First Friday Art Walk, great cultural events, lively pub life, etc. Plus you can take a cheap ferry out the islands in Casco Bay. Portland rocks MUCH more than other similarly sized cities. And Boston’s not much further.
Location-wise, I think bates wins hands-down. They also have a different vibe. I find Bates to be a little bit more arty/intellectual and less frat/sports/conservative. I didn’t like that about Colgate, but perhaps you would. Think about your personality and where you can see yourself thriving and finding your tribe.
Thank you guys for all of your help and insight into this decision. I just got revised finaid packages from Bates and Colgate this morning, bringing them each down to about $34k. Pretty much down to these two as my final options - needless to say, it’s a great dilemma to have. I’m visiting them both for admitted student receptions this week and should be able to make the decision then.
DocOc97,
Glad to learn about the revised FA packages.
Enjoy your visits and let us know your choice. You are in an enviable position. Great!
Safe travels, too!
Just an update for anyone who cares to know - I’m happy to announce that I’m officially a member of the Colgate Class of 2019! Can’t wait to be a Raider 
DocOc97,
Well, I for one care enough to want to know and, for that matter, I am delighted for you! Well done… A terrific 4 years awaits!
Now I don’t remember if you are interested in varsity sports but here’s something to focus on, your first opportunity as a Raider: The No. 18 ranked nationally Colgate men’s lacrosse is in the Patriot League Championship Game vs Army West Point, the Raiders having humbled Bucknell in the semifinal yesterday 18-5. (Army upset PL top-ranked Navy same day.) The final is on Sunday at 13:00 at Navy in Annapolis. The game will be televised nationally on CBS Sports Network.
The women’s team lost in the semis yesterday to Navy who will play perennial power and PL Champion Loyola, Maryland in their final, FYI.
Go 'gate!