Bates v Bowdoin v Colby

Colleges and Universities A-Z Colby College
21

<p>Jamoboo, you really need to think seriously here. If you’re saying that you don’t think you want the more challenging education route because you are not the brightest, and probably would be the dumb one in the class, then neither of these schools is going to work for you. All three are very challenging in the admissions process and nearly half the spots for the class of 2017 were filled in the ED-I cycle. Most of the athletes come in through ED-I. So it’s going to be even harder to get in on the regular cycle.</p>

<p>Women’s soccer in the NESCAC is very competitive. They look for players who could play D-I but prefer and warrant elite academics but who don’t want the year-round D-I commitment, such as exists at the Ivy League schools. The soccer coaches identify players in Sophomore and Junior year of high school (mostly through elite club-level play) and they push for their players in the ED-I cycle, and occasionally in ED-II. Unlike at many other schools, NESCACs don’t have slots. Admissions has the final say and there are always some promising athletes who get deferred or rejected. If you haven’t been to
the NESCAC athletics web page, you should check that out ASAP. Did you look at Amherst or Williams? Again, top academics are in order and, frankly, all of the NESCACs are going to be done with 2017 athletes. If you’re an all-county or all-state player, and/or an elite club player at the national or regional level, they may consider you for a walk-on. But then if you’re those things, you’ve been in the recruiting mill for at least two years.</p>

<p>Maine is a place where the outdoor lifestyle thrives. Colby probably has the most active outdoors club, Bowdoin next and Bates third. You need to study their websites thoroughly before you trek up there. If you get an interview and haven’t done your homework on their school, they’ll know it. The 4-1-4 and 4-4 and 4-4-1 are explained well on the sites, for example.</p>

<p>So, in short, at a bare minimum for all three, you’ll need to be a 3.5 average or better with a lot of AP courses, you’ll need 2000 or better SAT or 31 or better ACT, you’ll need strong extra-curriculars, a kick-ass essay and supplement that sings of why you want to go to their school, and excellent teacher recommendations. And this applies to pushed-for athletes, by the way. Scores should be higher for others without some need of consideration for what extra they bring to the school. Being from Long Island doesn’t exactly bring geographic diversity. Now if you were from Montana…</p>

<p>Have you looked at the NEWMAC schools? The top soccer programs have the same athletic requirements but the academics, while still very competitive, are less rigorous at some (but not so for Wellesley or Smith or MIT). You might try Wheaton (top soccer) or Clark. In the NESCAC, you might try Connecticut or Trinity.</p>

22

<p>Thats wrong the nescacs do have slots. They have a slot and tip system, where the more highly recruited athletes are guaranteed acceptance.</p>

23

<p>To be sure, a coach’s push helps at a NESCAC, and what sport you play has some influence. There are plenty of stories of “verbally committed” athletes who were rejected by admissions last month. I know of several, and it wasn’t pretty. One parent boasted to me in September that her kid was offered a four-year free ride for athletics at a NESCAC. I had to laugh because I knew it was a lie. There is no athletic money in D-III, only financial aid, and that only if you qualify (same goes for the Ivy League by their choice). Her kid was rejected; my student-athlete got in (to a different NESCAC). Academics matter at these schools.</p>

<p>It is important to say that the NESCAC admissions offices make it clear that their schools don’t have true slots. Perhaps you have some proof otherwise? A true slot is where the school will take an athlete on the coach’s say-so without consideration to academics beyond the NCAA minimum. A NESCAC might take a comparable 3.4 athlete with 1900 SATs over a 3.6 non-athlete with 2100; but they’re not going to take a 3.0 with 1800. They don’t need to. NESCACS do not participate in the Letter of Intent and they don’t have Athletic Contracts. Listen to what the staff say at the info sessions. An offer of admissions comes only from the admissions director. Some athletes don’t believe this until they or their friends are rejected–and then they blame the coaches. Academics matter at these schools.</p>

<p>It’s worth a look: [NESCAC[/url</a>]
and [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index]The”&gt;http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/information/psa/index]The</a> Ivy League](<a href=“http://www.nescac.com/admissions/admissions]NESCAC[/url”>http://www.nescac.com/admissions/admissions).</p>

<p>More to the point of the thread, if you’re not into skiing and outdoor winter fun, you’ll be a fish out of water looking to transfer by February of freshman year. If you’re not into art, you might be bored. Given their locations and small size, Maine schools will feel relatively isolated in the winter; so campus cultural life matters. Art is a part of the intellectual and social scene on these campuses. Colby and Bowdoin are full of visual art. Both boast very significant art museums and art programs. Bowdoin has a great music program as well. Bates has dance.</p>

<p>My advice remains the same. Jamaboo should take a wider look and very quickly if applying for the class of 2017. These are not Johnny-come-lately choices. If applying for 2018, it’s time to get on the athletic radar so the coaches can see you play this spring (at national showcases and their clinics) and summer (at their clinics) if they have interest after seeing your transcripts and scores. And remember, academics matter at these schools.</p>

24

<p>My son visited all three- Bowdoin, Bates and Colby. Although I hear great things about Bowdoin, it came across to me the most snobbish and “Old Boys Network.” We are from a middle class background from a large public high school and everybody that was on our tour were from very wealthy towns and prep schools. It was a put off! Although Brunswick is the prettiest town of the 3 schools, most convenient to transportation, Portland and Freeport. I thought Colby the prettiest of the three. My son was very impressed with the tour and our tour guide. The tour guide kept stressing how difficult the course load was and high expectations. It concerned both my son and I that he wasn’t going to be able to enjoy all of the coursework. He ended up applying ED1 to Bates. He loved the “feel” of Bates and felt his interview went very well. We took a 2nd tour of Bates while we waited for the interview. He really enjoyed the 2nd tour because the student concentrated on student life at Bates and my son felt he could fit right in. Unfortunately, he was deferred but is trying to keep a positive attitude. There is definitely a different feel at each school and I highly agree with Sue22 that you visit each of these schools.</p>

25

<p>Yeah i am currently being recruitedby NESCACS and i know a lot about the process. Im just saying that if you are the top recruit in the class and im speaking lacrosse-wise, and have decent grades are getting in. I know a kid who faile two regents exams, had a 3.3 and a 1750 sat who just got accepted to amherst. If the coach wants you badly and you have over a 3.0 and around an 1800 you will get in (assuming you are playing football or lacrosseor other sports that have more influence on admission)</p>

26

<p>We visited all of these schools two summers in a row, and we found Bowdoin to be snobby as well. This past summer, my son interviewed with a rising senior who made fun of where we are from (central Illinois). It was a definite turnoff. My son loved Colby on both visits, and he applied ED1 and was accepted.</p>

27

<p>Demaza, it sounds like you know a lot about soccer. I am class of 2018, and I will give a little soccer background. All- county this year 3 year varsity letter winner and starter. 5"7 defender who can use both feet, state I’d camp, select team, team ranked 73 in the country , I play full time outside back. I am in 3 aps and 2 honor courses. 3.5 gpa and not currently taken sat yet. I have no interest for Williams Amherst. I am a bit afraid for Bowdoin to be honest, but I am a good player , not just an average soccer player. I am a low d1 caliber player , or even middle.</p>

28

<p>Be aware that recruiting for a sport like soccer may be more selective than you think. I know plenty of kids with stats like yours who were not widely recruited in the end. Unlike a sport like crew, squash, of even lacrosse there is a plethora of strong club players out there available to D3 coaches.</p>

29

<p>I think coaches are more likely to be an advocate for a player they have seen play against good competition. They will witness play at national tournaments and at their summer camps.</p>

<p>Often tournaments will list the coaches who will be in attendance so you can let them know who you are beforehand (team, schedule, jersey number, and position) and they in turn may make it a point to watch you play.</p>

<p>Camps will also list the coaches on staff.</p>

<p>Video is another option, but I wonder about its impact for soccer at D3.</p>

30

<p>Ok I know soccer is a sport that most people play, but not to fight about this soccer thing because it is getting a bit off topic, my stats are below my actual level, I play along regional players just fine and the only difference is I never tryed out for states when I was 12-15. I am smart and my team goes to all the national tournaments. I am also a very fast runner, earning all county honors in track as a sophmore last year. I do three sports at my high school, soccer, winter and spring track. I also do my soccer team on the side, so I know how to juggle sports and academics. We have atleast 10 coaches a game watching us without anybody on my team even writing to them. I have some interest from other schools, and just wanted to know my chances. Also which school was for me. I personally think I am skilled enough to play at all three. But I don’t think academically I would even qualify for Bowdoin.</p>

31

<p>About Wheaton, Conn, and Trinity I feel are beneath me a bit. I know Wheaton is very good at soccer, both of them are, but academically speaking it seems like they have very high acceptance rates.I am not going for college soccer, I am going for the school. That is why I felt the nescacs would be a good fit, but by the helpful comments everybody is saying is sounding like I have a slim to no chance. I feel that I could make Bates, maybe Colby and a slim to no chance to Bowdoin. I have no interest in Tufts. I am not even close for making Amherst or Williams.Wesleyan, Hamilton, and defintly Middlebury I don’t really know about. Middlebury I think is way out of reach, their soccer is also amazing. Maybe by the advice, I am not qualified enough for Bates, Bowdoin, or Colby.</p>

32

<p>Your stats, while on the low side for some of these schools, are perfectly fine for a player on whom a coach is willing to use one of his few chits. The key will be to get a few coaches interested early enough for you to be able to visit schools, make some decisions, and get an ED application in next fall. Bates and Colby have both ED1 and ED2 so if these do turn out to be your top choices you’d have two chances for a coach to support your application.</p>

<p>As for surviving the academics at these schools, I’d be less worried. The NESCAC schools have very high graduation rates, reflecting the fact that the admissions offices at these schools don’t send acceptances to kids who can’t do the work.</p>

<p>Have you been on the CC recruiting forum? If not you might want to take a look.</p>

33

<p>I guess I just have to see. I would like to end this post here, unless anybody has some Bates v bowdoin v colby comparing.</p>

34

<p>2018 makes much more sense, J.</p>

<p>First: get to Colby and see it. It is amazing if it’s what you’re into. Waterville is a cute town. Spend some time walking downtown and visit the stores and cafes. Go to see Bowdoin too. Bowdoin has a really nice coach who’s just finished her first year there. Brunswick and the coastline below it are spectacular. My advice is to go in February when it’s cold so you’ll know what to expect. Start to follow their websites to register for their clinics as soon as they are posted as they fill up. You should plan to spend a good amount of the month of July going from clinic to clinic if you’re serious (and be in the best possible soccer shape you can be in). When you visit and spend time at a school, you’ll really get a sense of it. It will sing to you or you’ll move on.</p>

<p>Second, but also first: You need to register as a prospective athlete on their websites ASAP if you haven’t already done so and email the coaches directly. Introduce yourself and let them know you are interested as they have to hear it from YOU. Tell them too why specifically you are interested in their school. Demonstrate genuine interest. (Don’t forget to proofread your emails!) Let them know where your club team is playing, send the schedule, etc. Don’t make them look it up. Start that dialogue now. If you don’t have a soccer profile, make one (there are lots of good samples online that you can imitate–you don’t have to pay). Send that along with your high school’s profile (ask your college office for this, it should be on your school’s website so you can send a link). Email to tell them you are visiting their school and when and ask if they might be available to say hello. Expect to get 5 minutes if they are in town, but you might get more if they’ve seen you play or have any familiarity with your club. Worry about your grades and test scores. Study and prep. It will make you stand out. Get A grades in junior year. They will care. There are a lot of good soccer players out there. These elite schools want the ones who are also good students. You’ll be competing with many other players at your level. You’ll be competing with student-athletes at the elite boarding schools. You want to be the student-athlete with the better academic profile. If you’re interested in Colby, you should also look at Amherst. They are actually quite similar in a lot of ways, and Amherst has a great coach. Did you look at Middlebury? Did you look at Hamilton?</p>

<p>Of the others mentioned, though not as seemingly elite, Wheaton is a really, really nice school with a lot going for its more academic-minded kids. They have an impressive list of alumnae. They are tops for post-grad fellowships. They also have a phenomenal women’s soccer coach. Write to him. He goes to many tournaments and will come to see you play if you express interest in and knowledge of his school and demonstrate that you are a strong student.</p>

<p>All of these schools want to attract players who could play D-1 but who prefer to be students first. Soccer gets you leverage, so if you’ve got the soccer (and your description suggests you do), use it. College admissions is only going to get harder. If you can narrow down to your top three-to-five and if you have any of those coaches interested, you’ll have fun with the process. If a coach offers support (and this might not happen until summer), expect to apply ED and make sure you turn in the best application you can muster. You’ll know they’re serious if they invite you to visit in the early fall for an overnight. If you get this, treat the whole visit and everyone you meet as an interview. Don’t assume anything! You don’t want to be the kid that admissions turned down because the application and total package just didn’t meet expectations, despite a coach’s push.</p>

<p>Best of luck to you.</p>

35

<p>J,</p>

<p>Your grades ARE good enough IF you’ve got soccer to help with leverage. You’ve got it. Use it. You are absolutely right to worry about school and academics first. That’s what THESE schools are looking for. Email the coaches, tell them this, and they will come and see you play at the spring showcases. Reach high. Don’t write off Amherst. Don’t write off Wheaton either!</p>

<p>I also meant to offer some comparison, which was the point of your thread. I have spent time at each over many years. MY OPINION:</p>

<p>Colby is the more rugged, athletic. It’s in Central Maine. They have lumber jacking events for fun. It has interesting academics with international interest. It’s an amazing school. Central Maine is not for everyone. That is why fewer people apply and therefore they have a slightly higher acceptance rate. The standards are not less. The comment my daughter received most often was, “Colby? But that’s in the middle of Maine! Why would you want to go there? I could see if it was coastal, but that’s in the middle of nowhere.” Waterville can be quaint. It’s not far at all from Augusta, maybe 15 minutes to the mall. Colby is not the only thing going on, either. Skowhegan is just up the road and there is still some thriving industry.</p>

<p>Bowdoin is the more refined, athletic. It might seem to some to be more effete, but I don’t think it’s snobbery; I think that’s its culture. It’s an ELITE LIBERAL ARTS SCHOOL. Hello, people, some of us study English and Music just because. We don’t apologize for this. Call us elitist if you want, but it’s what we like. Some people worry about mind-body-soul; others worry about getting a degree in accounting so they can buy a maybe nice house in a boring suburb and hate their job. To each his own. Brunswick, can be kind of swank, at least in the summer, and it exudes history. Visit Chamberlain’s home, walk the woods and think of Emerson, Longfellow and Hawthorne. Visit Peary’s Eagle Island. It will feel the most NYC-Boston-centric in its downtown. The school feels very connected and integrated with the town.</p>

<p>Bates is the more artsy, hipster of the three Maine NESCACs. I don’t even think of it as athletic. I think they don’t have a men’s hockey team any more and they’re in Maine! However, Bates is “hot” right now among NYC kids. I don’t know why. I personally like Auburn-Lewiston and the lake area around it (in summer!), but I wouldn’t have wanted my daughter to go there. The town is trying to come back, but is having a hard go of it. The school does not feel integrated with the town to me. That’s what I liked least. I felt a strong us-them thing that I really didn’t like. Talk about elitist. I also thought the school intellectually boring. I’d vote for Wheaton over Bates in a heartbeat.</p>

<p>Also, get ye to Amherst and visit Emily Dickinson’s home while you’re there. Get to their clinics which are excellent but fill up fast. If the coach wants you for her team (especially if she needs outside backs in the incoming class) and you can meet her needs academically (and she won’t be shy about telling you what they are if she likes you), you can get in with a strong application (strong writing scores, essay, recommendations, other extra-curriculars, etc.) given what you’ve said about yourself.</p>

<p>For what it’s worth, my daughter’s order of preference for schools was different from mine. I’m giving you my opinion here. She is the one going to college. She got lucky and got into her first choice ED. Moral of the story: aim high, study hard this year, and use soccer for leverage.</p>

36

<p>…one last little thing. You say you are applying for class of 2018. I was thinking you were playing for a current U18 team in NYE that ranks in the 70s nationally and so you would have been a class of 2017. Being a 2018 makes all the difference. From what you have described, you are fine if you’re willing to use soccer to get in. Study, keep on the NESCACS of your choice. Don’t give up on Amherst (unless you really don’t want to be in a competitive academic environment, which it is, absolutely). Do look at Wheaton. It’s a great school. If you are indeed a U18, I might just see you on the field this spring…</p>

37

<p>Hey, so you can probably tell by my username that I’m going to be in the Bates class of 2017! Honestly, for me it was no contest for me between Bates and Colby. (I didn’t look at Bowdoin, so I can’t speak for it without bias. I do know that my older brother LOVED it before ultimately choosing another similar school.) First, for those of you saying that Colby’s facilities are nicer than Bates have outdated information. Colby’s campus was built in the 1960s, so they have no buildings dating back to the 1800s, which explains why there are no old, slightly falling apart buildings. Bates has some of those, it’s true, but their campus was built in the 1800s, so the original buildings are a little bit worn down but add extreme character and beauty to the campus. However, in the last decade, Bates has built several new academic buildings, a new dining hall, a new library, several new dorms, renovated several buildings (including the athletics building), built a new football field and a new tennis center, and more. I went there with my brother about 7 years ago and again on my own visit last spring, and even in that time, the campus has made incredible and unbelievable progress. And everyday they’re doing more to fix it up.</p>

<p>In your description of yourself I couldn’t help but notice the simiarities between us. I am an athlete, so obviously college athletics played a large role in my college decision. The general ranking sports-wise places Bowdoin at number one, followed by Bates, then Colby. In the NESCAC, Colby is often called a “pansy-school” because they rarely win in any sport. Bates is firmly in second, although they did beat Bowdoin in football this season, which was a cause for great celebration. Coach wise, the Bates coach was the best coach I met. Hands down. He was incredibly over-qualified to be a Division III coach, but he loves Bates and is committed to improving the program. The Colby coach was very strange and had trouble keeping anyone on the team for the full four years, which I found concerning. In addition, I love to move and do any sport, like you. From talking to my future teammates, I have learned that nearly half of the student population at Bates plays a varsity sport and that those who do not participate in a club or intramural sport. Bates is an extremely active campus. </p>

<p>You mentioned wanting to be able to get off campus once in a while, which I totally understand. All three of these schools are rural. Maine itself is just a rural state, despite its beauty and long lists of other things to offer. No one is going to lie to you and say Lewiston is a garden spot. Lewiston is not good, although it’s making some progress. It’s a working class town that’s long past it’s prime… what do you expect? It isn’t, however, nearly as dangerous as people seem to think it is. Just don’t be stupid and wander around the back alleys of Lewiston alone at night. Colby is the most isolated by far. Waterville is a 20-minute drive from campus, so getting away can be tough unless you’re willing to hop on a bus or drive. And there’s not much in Waterville anyway. I’ve been to Brunswick, which is lovely–by far the nicest of the three. But similarly to Bates and Colby, there is nothing there. So, the hotspots are Portland and Freeport. (I love Freeport personally, and if you like malls, you’ll love Freeport as well.) Portland is about 40 minutes from Bates, Freeport about a half hour. Portland is about an hour from Colby, 40-ish minutes from Freeport. Brunswick has similar (maybe 5-10 minutes shorter) traveling times to Bates. But again, Colby is the most isolated and is furthest from its “college town.” The other two border their towns.</p>

<p>Despite not visiting Bowdoin, I think I would rank it before Colby. Like you I am “Jewish, sporty, a little preppy, and not artsy at all,” and Bates was the clear winner. Besides all the logistical stuff I just said, the people at Bates won. They were all so happy to be at Bates. Bates loves people who love Bates, which is why their percent yield is so high; they make a point of favoring those in admissions who show added interest. The people were friendly and welcoming and so eager to brag about how much they loved the school. One of the girls I met (a Sophomore) said to me, “I have been here for two years, and I’m not going to even exaggerate. While I’ve been here, I think I’ve met two people I don’t like.” Honestly, on my overnight, I didn’t meet anyone I didn’t like. And they weren’t just nice for show… I did overnights at other schools, and even though they were supposed to be showing off their school, there were people still who were just plain mean and unwelcoming. There’s a sense of community at Bates that I didn’t feel at Colby. In the end, I thought it was going to be a tough decision, but it wasn’t. I got into Bates ED1, so I didn’t have to apply anywhere else. I would have applied to Colby because academically it’s basically identical to Bates, and I would have likely gotten in. (Actually in recent years, Bates has earned a slightly higher reputation, but I don’t really believe any of that crap anyway. My motto is to choose the best school for you regardless of all the reputation/ranking crap. It’s worthless if you go to a school you hate.) However, I doubt I would have ended up choosing Colby.</p>

<p>I’m sorry to be so tough on Colby, but the rivalry is slightly stronger between Bates and Colby that either with Bowdoin (although it is there). So this may be the rivalry talking… But even so, good luck! All three would be lucky to have you!</p>

38

<p>Dezama,
do you have a daughter that is a soccer player? And I have been writing to colleges, and have a profile. When you mean Wheaton do you mean Mass or Illonois? Also Amherst seems so hard to get into! Also Hamilton and Middlebury seem more difficult also. I was interested in Conn, but visited and did not like it. I am u-17 and am planning to hit up all the spring clinics possible. Is Wheaton mass religious, and why is it’s acceptance so high? Thanks, J</p>

39

<p>Bates 2017,
To be honest I am happy for your opinion. Bates and Colby are seeming extremely equal to me, but when its time for to visit in January I think I will just know what is right. The rankings mean nothing, Colby is ranked higher… whatever. What sport are you doing? The record is lower at Bates, but the only thing I want is for my school to at least reach the nescac tournament. I know it is not a gurantee every year for any school to have a consistent winning record to get into the Nescac or Ncaa tournament. The ghetto area is what it is. I mean unless I am in complete isolation of not having anything a hour away from me I am fine. And I know Maine is isolated, but I do want a some what convient drive to the mall. I am just so excited to be visiting soon. Thanks for you help, J</p>

40

<p>Many points made by Bates2017 are matters of personal opinion and therefore not arguable, but the idea that Bates is some kind of sports powerhouse compared to Colby doesn’t pass the straight face test. Just check the records/results. No varsity hockey at Bates and I’ve seen better pools at high schools (though swimming is one sport where Bates has improved a lot relative to Colby in recent years).</p>