Bates vs Grinnell vs Northeastern vs UCLA

College Search & Selection
1

Hello!

I’m an international student from Malaysia who’s having trouble selecting colleges. I know Bates and Grinnell are super different from Northeastern and UCLA - really big schools, but a common argument I’ve heard for large schools is that there are more opportunities for research, etc. as compared to small schools. Does anyone here know how research opportunities are like at Bates and Grinnell? I tried to email a few people from Bates that they had on their website but no response :confused: I would also like to hear some input on the communities of these different schools, if anyone could help give their input, that’d be really really great.

Would anyone also happen to know about the Biology/Neuroscience departments at these schools? As well as how international students are treated at these different schools?

Thank you so much!

2

Also - I forgot to mention that Bates is the most expensive… which kinda sucks as it’s currently my favourite choice too! My family will be ok with whatever I choose, but I definitely will feel bad if I use up so much money for my undergrad :confused: Grinnell offered me really good financial aid, but it’s all the way in Iowa which is a huge con for me imo…

3

Wouldn’t the lower cost outweigh that disadvantage?
How often would you even be traveling between home and college?

As for research opportunities, certainly you’ll see a greater number of projects at a major research university than at a small LAC. RUs will tend to get much more grant money and be better represented at national conferences. On the other hand, at a LAC you won’t be competing with grad students for faculty attention (or for project opportunities). LACs (including Grinnell in particular) tend to have higher rates of alumni PhD completions than RU undergraduate programs do. There may be several reasons for that, possibly including a higher degree of student-faculty engagement at LACs. At any rate, in many fields anyway, attending a small college doesn’t seem to hold students back from grad school success.

4

Grinnell is a very good school. What’s the difference in money? If it’s only a few thousand, it might not be worth the difference to your family. If it’s substantial, Grinnell is hard to say no to. I know of a student there who loves it. (Perhaps @porcupine98 could weigh in?)

In short, you will have opportunities to do research at LACs and you won’t be competing with grad students for them. In your position, I’d start by getting rid of the one you like the least. Then seriously consider the kind of environment you want. The beauty of LACs is that you will get to know a lot of your fellow students and professors quickly. Professors will know you on a first-name basis. That is less likely to happen at a research U. At LACs, your classes will be small from the start. My D’s two largest classes had 60 and 25 students. A class with nearly a thousand kids will not be unheard of at UCLA. Not sure about Northeastern.

Will you like the co-op system at NE? It’s not for everyone, and your degree typically takes five years. It’s very urban, completely different from the LACs, with no defined campus. I know several kids who are having a good experience there, but they do spend a lot of their time going out in the city. It’s going to be different from the traditional campus experience if that matters to you.

Both Bates and Grinnell are going to give you the types of opportunities you are looking for. As far as vibe, my understanding is that Grinnell is perhaps a little more eclectic than Bates, but I suspect overall that a student on one campus would be happy on the other. As far as undergrad research, that’s something LACs are known for. I can’t vouch for Grinnell, though I expect it’s similar, but my D at Bates is doing research this summer. She’s a junior currently. Her friend is doing research at Brown this summer, and had two research positions last summer.

Biology and neuroscience are going to be good at all those schools (actually, I don’t know about neuro at Grinnell. Does it have a neuro major?) Bates has a neuro major and there are two hospitals close to campus. Bates and Grinnell have high rates of acceptance to grad and med school.

You will be fine as an international at all of those schools. They all have a good mix of students, especially Northeastern. I know the most about Bates, as my D’s best friends are originally from Tunisia and the Philippines. She has friends from Morocco and Kazakhstan. Her friend’s boyfriend is Vietnamese.

It might be helpful if you give us the total COA for all of your choices, or at least the two you are most interested in. Good decisions to make!

5

“A class with nearly a thousand kids will not be unheard of at UCLA.”

Yes it will, since the largest lecture hall only seats 500. Lower division lectures of 200-300 aren’t uncommon, but then there are smaller discussion sections. Students at UCLA are generally very happy, LA is a great city and the food is amazing. I’m not sure why you would pass it up for the other lower ranked and less well known schools.

6

@Twoin18 , I stand corrected. I was thinking of Cal.

Comparing rankings of UCLA to Bates and Grinnell is not a valuable comparison. Rankings can be used in many different ways. Not everyone cares about the USNWR rankings, btw.

7

@Lindagaf I can see there might be arguments to go elsewhere. I’m just perplexed why UCLA is mentioned in the title by the OP, but then apparently is not even being considered as a realistic alternative to the two LACs. The name/reputation of a school may well be more important for an overseas student, when prospective employers have heard of UCLA but not of Bates/Grinnell.

To me, the key question is how to choose between the better/cheaper LAC (presumably Grinnell) and the top RU (where UCLA is likely superior to Northeastern unless there is a significant difference in cost).

8

@Lindagaf Thank you so much! Your reply was really helpful :slight_smile: The difference in money is pretty huge - Grinnell offered me 33k and Bates only offered me 4k in financial aid… Northeastern offered me a 25k scholarship, no financial aid from UCLA.

Yeah, I had the same thoughts about NE being in Boston vs a LAC like Bates/Grinnell in terms of the environment. I like the idea of the small, close-knit community that LACs have, but I’m a lil worried that Grinnell may be too rural for me. I have a sister who lives in Boston, and my mom likes that if I go to Bates, I’ll only be a few hours away from her just in case of an emergency. I’m not too sure if Lewiston is as rural as Grinnell in Iowa though, what do you think about the town? :slight_smile:

The co-op system is pretty nice, but I know that Bates has short term which I thought would kind of allow me to get off campus and learn as well. Not sure if this is a valid concern but with the co-op, I was thinking that it might be disruptive to friendships as everyone goes off campus and does their co-op at different times, but with short term everyone goes off at the same time. I might be wrong, but that was just my train of thought!

How is your daughter enjoying her time at Bates so far? How would you describe the community of students at Bates? :slight_smile:

It’s been quite hard for me to narrow it down… to be honest, I really like Bates but my family says that I shouldn’t rely on my emotions when picking a school (as I’m sure a bunch of other people here would agree with, haha) Thinking logically, I know that I’ll be okay wherever I end up (because the whole college experience is what I make of it myself), but yeah I am still a lil anxious about this whole college selection process.

Thank you so much for your response by the way! I really appreciate it :slight_smile:

9

@Twoin18 Thanks for your input! Name and reputation is a factor, but not a super big one. I plan on going to grad school, and from what others have told me/my own research, the name/reputation of whatever grad school I go to will outweigh my undergrad, and LACs seem to be a really good stepping stone for grad schools. Do correct me if I’m wrong though! Do you think that Grinnell is more prestigious/better than Bates?

10

@tk21769 Yeah, I get what you mean but my mom and my dad aren’t so keen on Grinnell… like I mentioned in another comment, I have a sister in Boston and they’d like me to go somewhere that’s at least a few hours away from her just in case of an emergency. My parents seem to think that I’ll have huge culture shock too if I go to Grinnell as I’ve lived in a city my whole life, and Grinnell seems super rural.

11

We didn’t look too much at LACs, but my S did consider applying to Grinnell (it’s reasonably well known here on the west coast, especially for polisci kids, not least because it’s in Iowa). In common with a lot of Midwest colleges, the merit aid is related to their location, as it’s harder to persuade people to go there. We weren’t planning to be full pay anywhere since we are in-state for the UCs (he’s now at UCLA), so didn’t consider most of the LACs in the northeast.

The Northeastern vs UCLA decision becomes more difficult if Northeastern is $20K per year cheaper.

12

@Twoin18 Oh, cool! How is your S enjoying himself at UCLA? Did he find the big classes intimidating? How has his experience been so far?

13

With respect to your interest in research, all four of your choices are noted in U.S. News for their faculty mentored opportunities in research/creative projects.

https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/undergrad-research-programs

14

We have visited Grinnell 4+ times with 2 kids and visited Bates twice with one kid. Sciences at Grinnell are particularly strong for a LAC its size and it has a large international student percentage. Grinnell is one of the most economically diverse schools out there – only 5% come from the top 1% economically and about 25% from the bottom 60%. Bates is quite different in terms of economic make up, with 18% from the top 1% and 13% from the bottom 60%. Grinnell has about 18% international students while Bates has about 8%. Broadly, Grinnell uses the financial flexibility afforded by its substantial endowment to craft a diverse community.

Personally, I wouldn’t find the difference between Grinnell, Iowa and Lewiston, Maine particularly meaningful – Grinnell, Iowa is a charming, small midwest town, complete with organic grocery store, bike shop, doughnut store, cool movie theater, all 3-4 blocks from campus. As other posters have described them, Grinnell is perhaps known for having a range of student “types,” with an acceptance of the quirky kid.

In terms of travel, an international student is likely traveling to and from campus only a handful of times a year so the ease of travel in and out of Grinnell vs. Bates may not be as big a deal. Grinnell is 4 hours from O’Hare and Bates is 2 hours from Boston Logan, so its not like either is super convenient. Grinnell students would probably fly out of Des Moines (an hour away from campus) to connect through O’Hare or another major airport to fly internationally.

Given the difference in cost between Grinnell and Bates, I would look closely at Grinnell.

15

@thylakoid My S loves it at UCLA, particularly the diversity and the location (for example he goes to the beach regularly). There’s always lots going on in terms of activities and the food is great. The classes have been fine, some largish lectures, but the discussion sections (20-30 students) are where the real work happens. He’s had no problems getting the classes he wanted and has found it reasonably straightforward to get As.

16

In terms of resources available per student, and how this might be reflected in lab facilities and general opportunities, Grinnell might be your school to beat here. However, each of your choices has something to offer. If, after financial considerations have been settled, you feel more comfortable with one college than the others, you should feel confident moving forward with that choice.

17

I could see reasons for all of them, including being closer to your sister at either Northeastern or Bates. But if money is an issue or you want to save for grad school, Grinnell is almost a no-brainer. That would be my choice.

18

That’s a huge amount of money. In your shoes, I would choose Grinnell, despite my family’s love for Bates. However, if your family is extremely wealthy, then choose Bates, because it seems that you prefer it.

19

@thylakoid My son attends Grinnell (I did as well many years ago). We visited Bates but I’m not familiar with UCLA or Northeastern. Addressing your questions for Grinnell and a bit for Bates:

Research - Grinnell prides itself on undergrad research opportunities, especially in the sciences. I know it sends students to national and international conferences to present their research. I’m not familiar with research opportunities at Bates. They may be similar.

Biology - Biology is very strong at Grinnell as are the sciences in general. The facilities are excellent. Grad school and med school placement is excellent. Again, I have less knowledge of Bates.

International Students - As a previous poster mentioned, Grinnell has a significantly higher percentage of international students than Bates. It’s a very international campus and international students are well integrated.

Grinnell vs. Lewiston - Both are off the beaten path. Lewiston is over three times as populous as Grinnell, but at 36,000 it is not a large city. Lewiston has industrial origins. Grinnell is more agricultural. Both will provide similar basic services and serve as a backdrop, but your focus will be on campus. You may never again live in as diverse and cosmopolitan place as your undergraduate campus. Climate is similar. Bates has more interesting places to visit within a couple hours. The portion of Maine surrounding Lewiston is wooded with rolling hills. The portion of Iowa surrounding Grinnell is rolling farm fields, mostly corn and soy beans.

Vibe - It’s hard to know from one visit, but I perceived Bates students to be preppier than Grinnell students. More fashion conscious. The Bates students we met certainly seemed fun loving and academically engaged. They all loved the Bates orientation program. Grinnell students seem particularly friendly and unpretentious. As a previous poster mentioned, Grinnell is more socio-economically diverse.

Your first question should be big university vs.small LAC. I’m biased towards LACs, but understand some students are not a good fit for that environment. If you choose a LAC (and that seems to be your bias as well from what I can tell), you will be very well served by either Bates or Grinnell. Ideally, you should visit both and then trust your intuition, picking based on fit. I understand you may not be able to visit either. Then do as much due diligence as you can on both schools. Youtube, College Confidential, and school websites/virtual tours make that so much easier. Look around the towns using Google street view. Good luck and let us know which school you pick.

20

My son is leaning toward Northeastern because he doesn’t want to attend and small school and is interested in living in an urban area. We attended admitted students day and there was a session on undergraduate research. Many Northeastern undergrads participate in research. A number of students noted that they had altered their field of study a little or a lot based on either research at NEU or a coop. Sometimes it was honing in on a different concentration in engineering (my son’s intended major). Sometimes it was a complete change in major.

Good luck in your decision. I loved my experience at a LAC oh so many years ago.