Bates Vs. Kenyon

Colleges and Universities A-Z Bates College
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Hey everyone, looking for some opinions, hopefully as unbiased as possible. Thanks in advance- I know these kind of threads have been posted before, but I would love some relevant info.

So I’ve visited and interviewed at both Kenyon and Bates. I loved both, and want to do ed1 at one college and ed2 at the second. I just don’t know what to do ed1 at.

I’m interested in hospitality, as well as a few other things, and don’t know exactly what I’d major in- maybe English and Econ? I’m from suburban NJ.

I love Kenyon’s literary culture. The Kenyon review and the literary atmosphere, tradition, and strength of the college appeals to me. I’m not a “book nerd” by any metric, though. I also love its campus, especially in comparison to Bates. I felt that it was more spacious, and I like the older buildings and the feel quite a bit more.

However, Kenyon is in Ohio, as Bates is in Maine, which works as I am fairly outdoorsy (hiking, climbing, snowboarding) and love New England. I’m worried about the isolation at Kenyon, as I don’t know how I’d handle it although I know that there are a lot of things on campus.

I loved the people at both schools. I like that there’s one dining hall, and the strong tradition at both schools. The student body, the curricula, and everything at both schools match what I’m looking for.

If anyone has any perspective that might be useful, or even a method of choosing between the two, that would be greatly, greatly appreciated. They’re both amazing institutions and it’s very hard to choose one.

Will possibly post in Kenyon forum as well

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Both are great schools so I doubt you’d go wrong with either. Here are some questions to ask yourself:

Where (geographically) do you want to end up? More students from Kenyon come from the midwest, more Bates students from New England. Both have plenty of students from outside the region, but you’re more likely to find alumni connections and potential love interests who live nearby. The largest percentage of Kenyon students are from Ohio, while a lot of Bates students come from the Boston area.

Do you want frats and sororities? By design Bates has never had them. Kenyon does, with around 25% of students joining. That’s a fairly high percentage, so it would likely affect your social life even if you didn’t pledge.

Are there special programs offered by each? Kenyon’s writing, Bates’s Short Term?

Does one or the other feel socially, politically and stylistically more like it has “your people”, and is this a good or bad thing? How comfortable do you want to be vs. how challenged?

What kind of outdoor activities draw you? Bates will obviously have better skiing/snowboarding and has a very active Outdoors Club but I’m sure you could find good hiking and other recreational activities around Kenyon as well. How important is snowboarding to you?

How do you feel about snow? Both are in cold locations but Bates will be slightly colder and snowier.

What does Naviance say about your school’s success in admissions at each school? Is one or the other in your sweet spot? Some schools value geographic diversity or seem to like certain schools.

Where can you get from each school? Bates may be only 2 1/2 hours from Boston but realistically you probably won’t go there very often. More Bates kids travel to Portland, which is a great little city with fun restaurants, shopping and bars, and I personally love it, but it’s obviously not a Boston, NYC or Chicago. I like the fact that Portland is easily navigable and that Bates runs buses there. I don’t know anything about Gambier, Columbus or even Cleveland so I can’t comment on where Kenyon students go.

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It’s not true that more kids from Kenyon are from the Midwest. We just went to an info session and tour there and the two states with the most students there are New York and California. The prospective students on our tour were from New Hampshire, Connecticut, North Carolina, Colorado, and California!

As for sororities and fraternities at Kenyon, they are truly not what you think of as Greek life. They are more like clubs for kids to join to do community service. They don’t have their own houses. The biggest “fraternity” on campus is one that includes both men and women.

The students we met said that they usually stay on campus to socialize. One student told us that it’s not about finding something to do each weekend, it’s about what to NOT attend because there is so much to choose from.

Maybe an overnight at each school would help you!

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This is a tough choice, and my daughter was in a very similar position two years ago. She was all set to attend Kenyon, but got off Bates’ waitlist. At the end of the day, I think factors that swayed her in favor of Bates were: more East Coast job opportuntiy potential, Short Term, and the excellent study abroad programs. She too loved Kenyon’s beauty and still feels she would have been happy there. She liked the slightly more creative vibe at Kenyon. Profs at both schools are great, but I give the edge to Kenyon, which had more profs than even Harvard in the Princeton Review best prof list. My daughter likes her profs, and Bates does have plenty of creative and arty students. She loved Short Term. Everyone is relaxed and the classes are fun and engaging. Bates has high accpetance rates to grad school, as does Kenyon, but Bates is number 5 in producing Fulbright scholars, whereas Kenyon is 40.

As far as location, my daughter loves it. The college puts on various free shuttles to different locations in Maine. The famous Bates Outing club organizes many hikes and excursions. There is a sailing club too. Portland is forty minutes away, Freeport has great shopping and food, and the kids are proud of Lewiston, warts and all. They like the fact that in the least diverse state in the nation, Lewiston is home to a sizable population of Somali and French Canadian expats. She likes that locals walk their dogs on campus, and take prom and wedding photos at Lake Andrews. One downside, for her, is that she is not at all sporty and there are a lot of athletes of both sexes at Bates. But Bates kids are pretty relaxed and people tend to get along.

I wouldn’t worry about feeling isolated at Kenyon. Columbus is an hour away and by all accounts is quite an up and coming city. We have discovered that kids spend most of their time on campus, except for those on urban campuses, and the college will have tons of events going on. They want kids to want to stay in campus, so I don’t think you will be bored, at least not for the first couple of years:-). Kenyon and Bates are similar in many ways, and both colleges will prepare you well for your future career.

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@homerdog, I know it’s quibbling, but
http://www.kenyon.edu/admissions-aid/admissions-statistics/
Kenyon- states with largest enrollment = 1. Ohio, 2. California, 3. New York, 4. Illinois
Regions - Midwest = 28%, Mid Atlantic 24%, West/Southwest 20%, South 12%, New. England 10%, International 6%

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According to the Common Data Sets for Fall 2016, there were significantly more ED applicants at Bates (632) than at Kenyon (378). Not surprisingly, ED was more competitive at Bates (50% acceptance rate) than at Kenyon (66% acceptance rate).

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@Sue22 thanks for the clarification. I guess my point was that Kenyon is definitely not full of just Midwestern kids. I believe all 50 states are represented. Of course, there are plenty of schools in the Midwest full of Midwestern kids but I don’t think Kenyon feels like that. Also, I meant to mention that kids there get internships all over the country. One of the students on our panel had a job in Philadelphia. Kenyon’s reach is well outside the Midwest. I think their website makes it pretty clear. :slight_smile:

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if you are sporty, Kenyon has a fabulous athletic facility. One of the most impressive for a school of its size.

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^Absolutely. Kenyon is a school with a national reputation. Kids at both schools will have access to jobs and internships across the country. I was only pointing out geography as a slight tie breaker because a school’s location can influence (not determine) where a kid ends up post-graduation. For instance, I, like many Bates students in the 80’s came from outside Boston. I met my now husband, an international student, at schools. Had he gone to school in Chicago or LA it’s more likely he would have ended up living in another area of the country instead of where we are now…outside Boston.

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It always strikes me, when folks talk about going off campus to a nearby large or large-ish city. Other than, say, a school plunk in DC or NYC, I find the more important factor is what’s actually happening on campus and locally from campus (a ski trip, eg.) Mine went to the nearest big mall a few times but not a city destination. (Not for lack of being cosmopolitan.)

So, you see what is going on, right there: clubs, activities, concerts, lectures. You dig into what strengths are offered in your major (what sorts of classes, research opps, travel programs based on your major, and the actual research interests of those who’d be your profs, how that really aligns with your own.)

More than skiing, mine were into community service, it was an important consideration for them. That’s where they took their busses, locally or Habitat projects. One was into singing and orchestra and explored music opps, including how the college played regularly with a school 30 minutes away, to form a larger group.

Dig in, see the possibilities. And see how you envision yourself there, not away from there.

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@lookingforward Totally agree with that! I went to Northwestern and Chicago is so close to Evanston. I probably went to Chicago once a year for a Cub game or something until I was 21 and then went just a little more often since we could get into bars. When I see statements like x-big city is just an hour away from a certain college, I think so what? An hour is super far for kids even if they have a car. Chicago is a 20 minute subway ride from Evanston and we all spent our weekends on campus.

It’s bad judgement to assume you’ll be headed off to “the city” each weekend for fun.

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Wow, thanks everyone for such detailed and helpful answers!

@Sue22 those were some really helpful questions to ask myself, and while Kenyon’s frats aren’t necessarily traditional and probably aren’t exclusive or bad, bates seems to really emphasize inclusivity, which is nice.

@Lindagaf it’s great to hear from someone whose daughter has had to make the same choice. I too am worried about the less creative (and possibly less intellectual?) atmosphere at Bates, even though I know it is a rigorous school and harbors creatives I don’t feel as if it matches kenyon in that department. Do you really feel that east coast job opportunities will be a problem at such a highly ranked school like kenyon? And one more question, sorry- did your daughter ever feel as if the campus at bates was too small compared to Kenyon?

@lookingforward this is really true, and also really helpful. I love the idea of going to a college in New England, with lots of snow, but I think Kenyon may have more for me on campus, and is bigger. Unfortunately, I wouldn’t have anywhere to go to if I wanted to leave. Thing is, you’re right- I shouldn’t want to leave. Still a hard choice, but that helps a lot.

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@henrywinter, remember that the number of events on campus is not driven by the number of campus acres. I would check out the actual offerings on a typical weekend. Bates has a slightly larger population than Kenyon, but not by an amount that would change things substantially IMO.

I doubt you’d have trouble finding job opportunities on the East Coast at either school.

Here’s a basic statistical comparison of the two schools. As you can see, on paper they’re quite similar.
http://colleges.startclass.com/compare/1770-3295/Bates-College-vs-Kenyon-College

Another question to ask yourself-are you dead set on applying ED?

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I had my daughter read your original post and your question above. To paraphrase her: She thinks you might prefer Kenyon if an intellectual and literary atmosphere is important to you, but don’t assume that because Bates is test-otpional, there are less intellectual students. She says Bates is more sciencey than Kenyon. (She herself is probably going to double major in Psychology and East Asian studies, which entails two theses.) She says that most students spend the majority of their time in just a few places regardless of the school, and though Kenyon has more acreage, Bates doesn’t feel small. She agrees that Kenyon is probably more creative, but says there is plenty of creativity at Bates. What she said to me after reading your post was “I think this person should go to Kenyon.”

As far as campus activities, both colleges have plenty. Day trips are easy from Lewiston, but kids spend the majority of time on campus and there are many fun campus events, as there will be at Kenyon. I don’t think you should worry about that aspect. Both schools will keep you engaged and busy.

Regarding job opportunities, “problem” isn’t the right word. Grads from both schools are all over the country. But, location does factor in, especially for summer internships and the like. Hope this helps.

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I should also add that inclusivity is very important at Bates, and an integral part of being there. Bates was just listed in Princeton Review’s Top 20 Impact Schools. Bates kids like to be involved. If being involved is important to you, that might be a factor to consider.

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As I read your posts, @henrywinter , I think your heart is pulling you toward Kenyon while your head is telling you Bates should at least be a contender. They are both terrific schools, so if you follow your heart or your head, you can’t go wrong. If the literary creative vibe you are getting from Kenyon really sppeals to you, i would pick that one. Your gut is telling you something… Both are equally known and respected in NJ (which is to say most people will have either heard of both or neither). It does help to ED, but you should be comfortable with the decision to do that.

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Do either of them have overnight stays or ways you can talk to a current student? That would be a wonderful way to narrow it down. But like others have said, you could apply regular decision and attend more of the admitted students day and the like, to see which one may be a better fit.

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@gardenstategal , you make a great point. My daughter admits she chose Bates with her head, rather than her heart. I think if it had been a choice between schools on different levels academically or reptuationally, she would not have switched. But it was a choice between two equally fine schools. She has said in the past that she thinks overall, kids at Kenyon are probabaly more her type of people, but she is happy at Bates and has good friends. Her type of people are there too, because there is a good mix of people. The inclusive aspect of Bates is more important to her than she thought it would be. For her, Bates allows her to explore areas of interest she didn’t know appealed to her.

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My son is a recent Bates grad (majored in Philosophy and Math), where my mother also attended. I am a Kenyon alum. Right after his graduation, he and I drove to WI, where he began a new job in tech. On the way, we stopped in Gambier, where I had not visited for 30 years, and walked around the campus. It felt a bit surreal, highlighting all the differences and similarities. I think Kenyon has the lovelier campus (although I think Bates keeps theirs better). Bates is more cozy, more homey, but then Kenyon is in the midwest, and has its own warmth.

My student experience at Kenyon equates to the stone age, so I won’t dwell on that, but I will say that when my son matriculated at Bates, I was biased in favor of Kenyon. My son spent most of his time on campus at Bates. We are an outdoorsy family, so he did go skiing and hiking and canoeing with the Outing Club, but was most involved as a leader in one of the other college clubs. He loved his geeky tribe, but there was lots of overlap–he had plenty of friends who were in theater, orchestra, dance, debate, and on athletic teams. He roomed with a student from NJ, one from MA, another from CA, and one from NC, his home state. He is not a city guy, and found Lewiston very managable. There are plenty of preppy-type students at Bates, and you certainly can find a fraternity atmosphere if you go looking. But I do think there is a fundamental difference in culture between a school that started as all-men and one that has always been co-ed. I agree that Bates felt more inclusive. I was impressed with the relationship my son developed with his professors, and particularly with the Bates Career Development Center. I’m assuming Kenyon has a similar program now, as well (it had nothing like that when I went there). My son arrived at Bates from a public magnet boarding school for science and math with something of a pressure-cooker environment. He found Bates to be sufficiently challenging, and still had time for extracurriculars and a part-time campus job.

Comparing my own experience to my son’s, I would say winter in Ohio is just as cold and snowy as in Maine (I grew up in New England).

One more thing: Bates owns its dining facilities, that is, every dining services employee is College staff, not employed by a company contracted to do the food. Both the college and the employees are proud of this, and it is reflected in the quality of the food on campus. If you are interested in the hospitality field, you might be interested in this arrangement; I may be mistaken, but I believe it is out of the ordinary.

Good luck on your decision! You have two excellent options.

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My kid visited both several times as a prospective athletic recruit, so we can share some thoughts.

On Kenyon’s greek life – we were told on our tour that, while the fraternities and sororities no longer live in their houses, the college sets aside specific hallways within dorms to house members together, so that one hallway might be Beta, another Kappa (I don’t know what greek life organizations are actually on Kenyon’s campus).

Kenyon’s athletic facilities are gorgeous, though down the hill and not really visible from campus. Bates’ athletic facilities are more faded though centrally located.

Take a look at academic requirements etc. As I recall, Kenyon had gen eds that required two courses from the same department, presumably the idea being that a student should develop some depth in a particular area. Bates has distribution requirements that focus on interconnection and clusters, plus has the May term. Not dramatically dfferent approaches, but worth considering.