<p>Is Wellesley really much better than BC / NYU / Brandeis / Smith?
Especially BC?</p>
<p>I would take W over BC, Brandeis, and NYU for most majors. Fwiw. Imnsvho, I don't think BC is even in the same league.</p>
<p>I looked at Wellesley, BC, and Smith very seriously (along with Georgetown, George Washington, BU, Tufts, Northwestern just to give you an idea).....</p>
<p>Have you visited the campuses for any of these? Completely different vibe. You should also consider that Wellesley is ranked 4th nationally for all liberal arts schools. Not all women's lib arts, just ALL. That really does mean something. </p>
<p>My impression is that Wellesley is much more academically rigorous than the others. DOn't get me wrong...you will work hard at all of them. Wellesley is simply a better school. It has bigger endowments. Better resources depending on your field (mine was political science or international relations), better location (except maybe NYU), etc.</p>
<p>The campus at Wellesley is very similar to that of BC. BC's is a little prettier, but both have lush lawns, beautifully maintained, cool architechture, etc. BC has a much stronger sense of school spirit (going to basketball games is HHHHHHHHHUGE) and more of a social life. Wellesley is more removed from Boston (aka it's harder to get to Boston). BC's t-stop is almost on campus. At Wellesley you have to take a commuter rail or the bus that goes to Harvard/MIT. </p>
<p>SMith is SO REMOVED from everything. The campus isn't AS pretty as the previous two, but still pretty sweet. Also consider, do you want boys? You can't compare Smith and Wellesley to BC without looking at that factor. </p>
<p>Haven't visited/didn't strongly consider NYU or Brandeis, so I can't speak for them as much. They have larger Jewish populations than the other three (the majority of the people that I know who have gone or go to these schools are jewish). Also consider the Catholic/Jesuit thing with BC. It's not THAT in your face....but it's there. </p>
<p>Hope this helps somewhat :)</p>
<p>What NYU school did you apply to? The only one I would even consider is Gallatin. Gallatin mayyyyyyyy be better than Wellesley or Smith, depending on how much being in NYU will help whatever you want to do (internships, the city, etc.). </p>
<p>I can't speak for Brandeis, but like the previous poster said academically Wellesley is better than all those schools. But I would still consider the nonacademic things (all womens vs. not, location, city or suburban, overall feel and also whatever specific things you want to study). Wellesley has a great study abroad program, if you're into that.</p>
<p>{{My impression is that Wellesley is much more academically rigorous than the others.}]</p>
<p>Hardly. Your impression is wrong. The overall ranking of #4 is a combination of many factors. But the actual academic ranking numbers are very close. You go to college for the academics, I assume, not what percent of alums donate, or the retention rate of the freshmen class, etc. All of the aforementioned plus many other moronic stats go into the overall ranking but have no bearing on the academics
US News Academic Rankings
1985 1990 1995 2000 2001 </p>
<p>Smith nr 7 6 5 5</p>
<p>Wellesley 8 3 3 4 4</p>
<p>SMith is SO REMOVED from everything}}</p>
<p>Have you visited? the Northampton/Amherst area has 5 colleges (30k+ students) and has been referred to a the Greenwich Village of Mass. The area is very cosmopolitan.</p>
<p>And instead of taking a bus for an hour to Boston, Smith women can walk out of their house and go a block or so and be in town. The ride to Amherst is free and is only about 20 minutes.</p>
<p>The academic rankings are something to consider on their own (thanks for posting the numbers!) but alumnae giving and retention rates do say a lot about an institution. Maybe they don't speak to the academic environment, but they influence it considerably through financial aid, the stability of the community, and the overall maintenance of the institution.</p>
<p>Academics are only one piece of the college experience.</p>
<p>Maybe they don't speak to the academic environment, but they influence it considerably through financial aid, the stability of the community, and the overall maintenance of the institution.}}</p>
<p>Smith has 1.2+ <em>billion</em> in its endowment fund and just completed one of the most successful fund raising event in the colleges history, due in part to an incredable alumnae base. I believe Smith is just fine in the financial strength dept. as witnessed by the fact they give more financial aid than any other LAC, including to internationals.
The most number of students on Pell grants of any LAC attend Smith also. I believe that speaks volumes to Smiths priority to educate our underprivileged but deserving young women both from here and abroad.
70% of the smith students are receiving aid, one of the highest percentages in the country. Contrast that to Colgate that only gives 30% of its students aid. Thats not a value judgment, just a fact.</p>
<p>Smith has the Praxis program that offers financial assistance to those who take an unpaid internship.</p>
<p>Smith regularly finances trips (plane tickets and hotel rooms included) for students to attend conferences or educational meetings in DC and many other cities. </p>
<p>Smith recently gave an addition 1000.00 to a Smith political organization to rent a suite and pay for food, etc at the Marriott on the wharf in Boston, in order to attended educational meetings. How many other colleges give away 1k to students simply b/c they asked and demonstrated it was for a good cause?</p>
<p>Youre correct, ringer ( I like your id btw) the financial stability of a college is imperative and Smith seems to demonstrate in myriad ways they have more than adequate funds to support their students for causes most colleges would scoff at at best or consider ridiculous at the worst</p>
<p>"There is percentage wise, the largest agglomeration of women science students in the U.S." And ground-breaking will take place on the new multi-million dollar science center this year.</p>
<p>"You look at the 14 Fulbrights at Smith (8 in research) and you can add those at Swarthmore, Williams, Amherst, Wesleyan, etc. together, or take any of Ivies, UChicago, etc., and <em>you still don't find as many as Smith was awarded</em></p>
<p>Smith has received more Fulbright awards than any other LAC numerous times in the past 5 years. And as stated more than many top LACs combined</p>
<p>Smith also has the only engineering program at a womens college in the country with guaranteed admission to the graduate engineering programs at Notre Dame, Dartmouth, John Hopkins, tufts and the U Michigan, if the student graduates with a 3.5 gpa. And they have an exchange program with Princeton as well as the aforementioned colleges to allow the women to study their jr yr in the engineering dept at the various universities.`</p>
<p>To date, the graduating students have been accepted into engineering graduate programs at Harvard, MIT, Michigan, Dartmouth, Cornell, Princeton, Berkeley and Notre Dame"</p>
<p>Of course, there had already been plenty of acclaim for the plan to teach engineering at Smith. The college had been basking in the national spotlight for the past week and a half, ever since the board of trustees, at its spring meeting, had given its blessing to the program. The New York Times had run a laudatory front-page story in which Smith President Ruth J. Simmons, whose strong support for the initiative had been consistent and decisive, spoke of the need for "a critical mass of women moving through engineering together" to topple sexist barriers, explicit or implicit. CNN played up the news, and prominent accounts appeared in newspapers from coast to coast. The San Francisco Chronicle even had an editorial on the subject. "We salute Smith for its bold step into a male-dominated area of study," it said. "We are confident Smith engineers will be paragons when they begin to graduate in 2004."</p>
<p>"Yet it is one of Smith's proudest boasts that its students graduate with science majors at two and a half times the national average for men and women combined, and that Smith science graduates pursue advanced degrees at a rate far above the national average for women."</p>
<p>I'd say the overall experience at Smith is on par with any LAC and far better than most :)</p>
<p>Wellesley is a fantastic college also. But sometimes its students, as well as those at other LACs can't see past a US News ranking or beyond the confines of the campus. Im sure many Smith students are guilty of the same transgressions.
The rankings are more than suspect anyway. How can colleges move 5 spots, as some have? Does any sane person honestly believe a college can do something great or egregious enough in 12 months move 4 to 5 spots?---of course not. The numbers are being jury-rigged each year by US News b/c if colleges didnt move constantly in the rankings; no one would buy the magazine. </p>
<p>And colleges that put less weight on SATs and accept students with lower scores because they have shown great potential b/c of their gpa and rank are penalized, even though that many be far brighter than a student who scored 1550. </p>
<p>Some colleges are now playing the SAT game by not requiring them, Holyoke, Middlebury, et al colleges, no longer ask for SATs for admission and Colgate no longer asks for SAT subject tests or an app fee so they can garner more apps and make their admit rate appear lower-- never mind 90% of the students who will now apply dont have a chance. </p>
<p>Speaking of Middlebury, their published SATs scores for US News are for <em>admitted student</em>, not students who matriculated. Thats a about a 100 point too high an average for actual students who matriculated. The top scoring SATs students dont matriculate to Midd.</p>
<p>Only about 50% of Bowdoin or Bates students submit SAT test results, which artificially makes the middle 50% range higher than if all the students scores were tabulated. How intellectually honest is that?</p>
<p>Unfortunately, b/c the colleges are manipulating the stats they report to US News, in the future the ranking will mean nothing more than to demonstrate who can rig the stats to their benefit the most and change the overall score. If you believe no college is below <em>cheating</em>, a well known LAC counts the students who submitted preliminary apps but never followed though followed thorough with the rest of the application paperwork and forms b/c after more thought they decided they didnt want to attend that college. However, even though the student didnt send so much as their SATs or transcript to the college, they were still considered legitimate applicants to push the apps numbers up, admits percentage down. </p>
<p>Bates and Holyoke constantly puts students into the top medical schools at a much higher the Bowdon, Middlebury, Colgate and many other colleges ranked much higher. </p>
<p>Bates and Holyoke who were admitted to Cornell, Dartmouth, Harvard et al top colleges over their higher ranked US News schools at a much higher rat. It seems to me, they may be overjoyed and even laughing a bit b/c the rankings meant absolutely nothing when it came to med school admittance</p>
<p>Just some thoughts every student should consider whether theyre considering attending Bryn Mawr, Midd, Bates, Barnard, Wellesley, Smith, etc, etc.</p>
<p>Sorry for the very lengthy post, but maybe some found something useful or interesting.</p>
<p>roadlesstravelled...
yes i've visited smith...i've visited 25+ college campuses (not an exaggeration) and by my evaluation, smith is removed. it's not as removed as say.....notre dame in south bend, IN, but's kinda lonley. i wasn't impressed by northampton and ONLY a 20 minute bus ride?? not the most accessible.
i think your bias for smith is extreme...if you are a current student or alum, it's clear you feel passionately for smith. as someone who looked quite seriously at the schools that the orginal poster requested, i feel that i am giving a well rounded comparison of those schools.</p>
<p>i wasn't impressed by northampton }}</p>
<p>Thats perfectly fine. I'm not impressed with NYC. To each their own. Enough people love Northampton that the housing prices are close to those of Boston. Some people like Wellesley (the town). I find it totally boring. Its a burb. I have a good friend who lives there. When I visit, we leave and go to Boston to find a decent restaurant and entertainment</p>
<p>I was more or less responding to your remarks My impression is that Wellesley is much more academically rigorous than the others You visited numerous campuses but havent attended any. Wouldnt you agree a legitimate impression of a colleges academic rigor takes more than a short visit or sitting in one class or so? You have no way of knowing how rigorous the academics are at Smith, or any of the other colleges for that matter.
I didnt speak about BC, although I knew students who attended the college and I visited often, but I wouldn't presume to know how rigorous their academics are compared to Smith, Wellesley etc without attending or spending a semester in classes.</p>
<p>I have two very close friends who are ND alums and I can assure you their education is equal to, or slightly better, than that of Wellesley or Smith. </p>
<p>Talk to Smith women who have cross registered for a year at Wellesley and youll find the level of Smith academics equal compared to Wellesley. Although Wellesley may be slightly better in the Chem dept--at least until Smith completes its new science building. </p>
<p>I showed you even US News ranks Smith very close to Wellesley in the academic rankings. If you want to believe and taunt the # 4 overall ranking, you then have to give equal credence to the sub rankings Otoh- if you want to ignorantly consider Wellesley a much better college b/c US News rated it <em>overall</em> # 4, even though the Wellesley administration (I know one) themselves will inform you the rankings are very flawed, that also is your prerogative.
It really wasn't my intention to offend or start an argument. But the facts should be present honestly.</p>
<p>Good luck next year, and I hope you have a great college experience.</p>
<p>{{My impression is that Wellesley is much more academically rigorous than the others.}}</p>
<p>You have to get past the "branding" from US News and college admissions marketing departments...If you are looking for competitive science and engineering programs, then Smith College is far superior to Wellesley.</p>
<p>Smith is the ONLY Women's College with a stand-alone engineering school. When it comes to the sciences, Smith has the three R's: resources, rigour and reputation. It is considered a "feeder school" for a number of MIT graduate programs, most notably its EE and CS depts.</p>
<p>It surprises me that Wellesley frequently sends its CS students to MIT for many of its core courses, and all of its EE courses. The reason I went to a women's college was because I wanted the experience of all-women's engineering classes. Why bother going to Wellesley when you have go take co-ed classes at MIT, anyway?</p>
<p>Wellesley has its strengths, but when I toured the campus and went to their information session, it seemed geared more towards the aspiring journalism or French major. If it wants to maintain its place as the (supposedly) best women's college, it has to offer its students entree into the non-traditional fields, as well.</p>
<p>PS--Wellesley area is undeniably snooty (think million-dollar homes), homogenous, and a "white-bread" type of place. Smith is in Northampton, which is rural, also mostly white and boring. </p>
<p>Both campuses have issues if you're looking for a social life and diversity. Although, in terms of its student body, Smith is more diverse in terms of race/class.</p>
<p>Here's some very interesting stats on admissions to grad schools I found on the Reed website; including stats on women only.</p>
<p><a href="http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html%5B/url%5D">http://web.reed.edu/ir/phd.html</a></p>
<p>here are some additional interesting statistics regarding graduate destinations, with info on Wellesley</p>
<p>Correct for family income for those attending, and things get more interesting.</p>
<p>Could you explain, Mini?</p>
<p>Sure. You will find a direct relationship at the "top" professional schools (NOT the graduate schools, but the professional schools) between 1) family income and attendance; and 2) legacy status in admission (both of them linked to each other.) If you wanted to compare what those admissions mean as a surrogate for quality, you would have to look at, for example, the number/percentage of Pell grantees at each school that ended up at the prestige professional schools, or, alternatively, examined the family income/legacy status of those attending. That well-to-do students at the nation's most prestigious colleges end up at the most well-to-do prestigious graduate schools is pretty much a statement of the obvious.</p>
<p>In other words, if you want to attend Yale Law School, statistically by far the best thing you can do is choose your parents well. ;)</p>
<p>I mean, mini, there's a lot of truth to that. But I think a "direct relationship" is a bit of an exaggeration, otherwise you'd expect to see Bowdoin and Middlebury above Wellesley on that Wallstreet journal ranking for grad placement, for instance, which they're not. There is some relationship between wealth and grad placement, but there are other factors in play there too. </p>
<p>For me the important thing to remember on choosing schools is: you might have a little bit of a different experience at different schools, but how far you go after school mostly comes down to the individual, and how good a worker they are in school and afterwards.</p>
<p>"Direct relationship" and "absolute correlation" are two very different animals. Since, however, we know absolutely nothing about legacy rate of attendance from the three schools, nor anything about the actual incomes of those not receiving need-based aid, we do not know that there isn't an absolute correlation as well as a direct relationship.</p>
<p>Grad (as opposed to professional) schools are closer to a meritocracy with the very, very large caveat that very highly qualified low-income students may feel compelled to go into the workforce immediately to help their families, or to seek out higher earning potential in second- and third-tier professional schools in their home states, or those they can afford.</p>