<p>My son is trying to decide between Middlebury and BC (honors program). He liked Middlebury and its professors and facilities but seemed more comfortable with the students at BC. We wonder about the alcohol scene at BC and whether he will get the same quality of instruction as at Middlebury. Also, at which school is it easier or more welcoming to become involved in clubs and extracurricular activities?</p>
<p>I can't speak for Middlebury (although I visited it and was totally turned off) but I can say that my professors at BC were absolutely fantastic. They were always accessible and had a real passion for both their subject and teaching material. I mean, seriously, put yourself in the mind of a hip, young professor. Where would you want to live? In rural Vermont where that college is the center of your existence or in the Boston area that has the country's best public schools for your children, all of the cultural resources of a metropolitan area, and a genuine academic community that extends throughout the city. By virtue of location alone, Boston area colleges get top notch professors.</p>
<p>With regard to the drinking scene the same applies. At Middlebury (and at many rural, little, schools) the only thing to do is drink. The school may say that they offer other activities, but trust me all the kids do is drink (I have asked many friends who attended the prestigious LACs (Colby, Williams, Amherst, Kenyon, Bates, in particular) and they confirmed this). At Boston College kids do go to the mods and drink, but this is supplemented by huge attendance at football, basketball, and ice hockey games and the city of Boston which offers many concerts, sporting events, dance clubs, and other youth oriented activities that are only a T ride away. Of course, BC also has its fair share of extra-curricular events such as a cappella/dance/comedy shows and guest speakers. </p>
<p>With regard for getting involved, BC has a club fair (activities day) on the dust bowl the first week of school and the 350+ clubs each have a booth to recruit new participants for everything from the martial arts clubs to political societies to community service. There is no exclusionary greek life though...</p>
<p>I don't go to BC, but I did get in. When I inquired about whether or not the drinking scene is huge, I was told that with 9000 ugrads, it's easy to find some people who don't drink.</p>
<p>I live in Vermont and have been to the Middlebury campus several times. Two of my teachers went to Middlebury. It's a wonderful school and the kids are highly intelligent, but I think BC is better. It has the Jesuit element, it's located in Boston, and I just think you'll find a wider variety of more open-minded and interesting people there. Middlebury attracts a lot of (intelligent) Vermont kids who want to stay in-state and ski a lot, as well as out-of-staters who want to do the same. But if you're comfortable with that- as well as the fact that there is nothing to do for miles around the campus- then I would say it's an even pick. Just choose wisely; you will either love or hate Middlebury.</p>
<p>its almost TOO easy to be involved with clubs at the beginning of the year. student activities day i found like 10 that i wanted to sign up with, and then tried to be involved with all of them but just didnt find enough time. wound up becoming a decent amount of involved with 2 of them and plan on actually going on ski trips and joining academic clubs next year.</p>
<p>and yeah, the majority of the people drink here but you would stil lbe able to find a nice group that didnt. like DHRBC said, boston is right around the corner so theres always the easy option to go there. but i do get the feeling at middlebury most nights the ONLY fun thing to do would be to drink. theres always football/bball/hockey games going on where are tons of fun, even though a lot of people drink before those anyway, theyre still fun sober!</p>
<p>professors and quality of instruction are great at BC. i mean i really cant compare casue its the only college ive been to, but on the whole ive had great professors and interesting and challenging classes</p>
<p>I say the Honors Program at BC will offer your child an exceptional academic experience. I have consistently found classes in the program challenging and enjoyable. The professors in the program do nothing else but teach Honors so they will get to know you very well and will become your mentors. I say that HP will compensate for whatever advantage Middleburry has over BC, which I heard from many people is a very good liberal arts school. Also, with the variety of selection in term of classes and fields of study, I think BC offers very good in term of quantity and quality.</p>
<p>None of you know anything about Middlebury. The amount of mischaracterization about Middlebury in this thread is astounding.</p>
<p>well, aren't the people under the Boston College thread going to be more biased? if you have an opinion why dont you state it, rather than just saying that the people here are wrong?</p>
<p>Then enlighten us. How many people do you find on the street that know anything about Middlebury?</p>
<p>I don't have the time today to address all the points I disagree with. I'll address a few though.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I mean, seriously, put yourself in the mind of a hip, young professor. Where would you want to live? In rural Vermont where that college is the center of your existence or in the Boston area that has the country's best public schools for your children, all of the cultural resources of a metropolitan area, and a genuine academic community that extends throughout the city. By virtue of location alone, Boston area colleges get top notch professors.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Professors at Middlebury are top-notch--some of the best in their respective fields. The idea that Vermont's location would prevent Middlebury from attracting the best professors is simply ridiculous.</p>
<p>
[quote]
With regard to the drinking scene the same applies. At Middlebury (and at many rural, little, schools) the only thing to do is drink. The school may say that they offer other activities, but trust me all the kids do is drink (I have asked many friends who attended the prestigious LACs (Colby, Williams, Amherst, Kenyon, Bates, in particular) and they confirmed this).
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Having spent 4 years at Middlebury, and having lived for a time in Boston, I can tell you that kids at Middlebury drink no more than kids at BC. In fact, I'd say that the BC kids spend more of their time drinking. I have no proof of this, but neither does anyone else posting on this thread, so I'll pass that off as my opinion. As for things to do in Vermont, kids at Middlebury actually get outside and hike, bike, fish, kayak, camp, rock climb, and ski. The college regularly brings in entertainment, excellent speakers, movies, etc. Kids at Middlebury aren't bored. They embrace their environment. And when they want a taste of city life, Burlington is 45 minutes away, and Montreal is less than 2.5 hours.</p>
<p>
[quote]
[BC] has the Jesuit element, it's located in Boston, and I just think you'll find a wider variety of more open-minded and interesting people there. Middlebury attracts a lot of (intelligent) Vermont kids who want to stay in-state and ski a lot, as well as out-of-staters who want to do the same.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>IMHO, the Jesuit element contributes to a more conservative campus community. BC is filled with upper class Catholic school kids from New England. I think you'll find more open-minded and interesting people at Middlebury.</p>
<p>Five percent of Middlebury students are from Vermont, and 76% come from outside New England. Eleven percent are international. What percentage of kids at BC are from outside New England? What percent are from MA? You'll find that Middlebury has a much broader national and international applicant pool than BC.</p>
<p>I think that BC is an excellent school that has a lot to offer. But so is Middlebury. The people on the street who know about Middlebury view it as quite a bit more prestigious than BC. Has everyone heard of Middlebury? No. More people have heard of BC for sure. But those are the same people who think that Penn State is an Ivy League school and that Williams and Amherst are community colleges located somewhere in CT. Those are NOT the people who hire for major corporations or who decide who gets admitted to top grad schools.</p>
<p>I think arcadia made some great points.</p>
<p>I myself applied to both schools, so possibly I could shed some light on the situation. While arcadia is definately right about the prestige of Middlebury, BC is a name that is more well known because of its size and athletics. While Middlebury most likely provides a better overall education, BC is only a slight step below it, and is consistently improving in the ranks. Middlebury itself is generally rated in the Top 5 liberal arts colleges in the country. BC however is "only", and I use that word loosely, ranked in the top 30 for universities. So yes, I would agree with arcadia that Middlebury is a better education, but her statement that people will have better connections at Middlebury than at BC is simply untrue by the sheer fact that BC has a larger alum network and is based near one of the largest cities in all of America. Just as a side fact, I did get waitlisted at Middlebury and accepted into Honors Program at BC, which is where I'll most likely be going, just in case any of you were wondering if I had any biases or such.</p>
<p>
[quote]
...but her statement that people will have better connections at Middlebury than at BC is simply untrue by the sheer fact that BC has a larger alum network and is based near one of the largest cities in all of America.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I never said Middlebury will offer better connections. There are tens of thousands more BC grads than Middlebury grads. But---when you attend a small school, people look out for each other both before and after graduation. Middlebury grads are very well represented in all industries in cities throughout the country, and because there are only 600 or so Midd grads entering the workforce every year, we keep an eye out for them. I regularly recruit Midd grads, and they always jump to the top of the resume pile.</p>
<p>Oh, and I'm a guy.</p>
<p>Since arcadia addressed some of the misconceptions about Middlebury, I’ll address some of the misconceptions about BC in his hasty post.</p>
<p>''IMHO, the Jesuit element contributes to a more conservative campus community. BC is filled with upper class Catholic school kids from New England.”</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Jesuits are the most liberal group of priests within the Catholic Church. There have been a lot talks from the ultra-fundamentalists within the Church to disband the Jesuits because of their outspoken liberalism. Recently, the President of Holy Cross took a lot of heat for allowing a pro-life organization spoke on his campus, but he stuck to his gun. The BC conservative reputation comes mostly from the board of directors. Their orders get filtered down to the rank-and-file administrators so it makes the administrators right-leaning. Jesuits are not ** conservatives **. The first Catholic priest to be a congressman was a Jesuit. He was pro-choice and pro-gay right.</p></li>
<li><p>The Catholic part I have no disagreement with, but the “upper-class” part I do (when compared with Middlebury). I don’t think anyone here would disagree with me that by calling someone “upper-class,” it would be safe to assume that they won’t need financial aid (FA). And those who genuinely do need it and receive it do not belong to the “upper-class.”</p></li>
</ul>
<p>About 48.00% of Middlebury incoming freshmen apply to FA.
About 53.37% of BC incoming freshmen apply to FA</p>
<p>About 86.00% of those who apply receive FA at Middlebury<br>
About 78.75% of those who apply receive FA at BC</p>
<p>Middlebury’s average indebtedness at graduation: $20,808
BC’s average indebtedness at graduation: $20,350</p>
<p>Conclusion:
BC and Middlebury are hardly a world apart in term of social economic diversity. But I’d like to ask arcadia where does BC hide these “upper class” that you say we are filled of? They must be hiding at Middlebury since 52% of your incoming class and 40% of your school don’t need FA (the links to these info are below).</p>
<p>“Five percent of Middlebury students are from Vermont, and 76% come from outside New England. Eleven percents are international. What percentage of kids at BC are from outside New England? What percent are from MA? You'll find that Middlebury has a much broader national and international applicant pool than BC.”</p>
<ul>
<li><p>I hate to be petty, but Middlebury has 9.8% international and not 11%. Still a lot better than BC, true, but let all try to keep the boosterism down a bit here. You said Middlebury has “a much broader national and international applicant pool than BC.” Really!?. Last year BC had 1621 foreign students applied to BC—larger than the entire student body of Middlebury—and we admitted about 20.6% of them. [p.29, BC fact book]</p></li>
<li><p>BC has 287 international undergrads and 480 grads (nothing to write home about) [p.40 fact book]
Middlebury has 260 international undergrads (nothing to brag on an internet forum about) [p. 1 fact book]</p></li>
<li><p>Considering there are only 600,000 people in Vermont and 6 million in Massachusetts, I failed to see the relevance of comparing how many local students are attending local colleges. Massachusetts has consistent been ranked among top the states with great education. Is it a surprise that schools around the area have a lot of students from Mass? But since you ask, about 33% of BC students are from New England. But since we are a larger school, we also have more students from the rest the US of A than Middlebury, too.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>Middlebury’s top five states:
1. New York
2. Massachusetts
3. Connecticut
4. Vermont
5. California </p>
<p> BC’s top five states
1. Massachusetts
2. New York
3. New Jersey
4. Connecticut
5. California</p>
<p>Middlebury’s top five countries:
1. China
2. Canada
3. India
4. Japan
5. Korea</p>
<p> BC’s top five countries
1. China
2. Korea
3. Canada
4. Australia
5. India </p>
<p>The contrasts are blowing my mind.</p>
<p>Conclusion:
You are an upper-class white school, we’re an upper-class white school. Let’s hug. :D</p>
<p>Sources:
<a href="http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/408241FE-D3C3-4D3A-BEF0-23EEB5E0C5B4/0/FinAid07.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/408241FE-D3C3-4D3A-BEF0-23EEB5E0C5B4/0/FinAid07.pdf</a>
<a href="http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/E6FC68D7-A279-40C0-BD45-4A9FBF3D1CA5/0/Fall2007StudentProfile.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.middlebury.edu/NR/rdonlyres/E6FC68D7-A279-40C0-BD45-4A9FBF3D1CA5/0/Fall2007StudentProfile.pdf</a>
College</a> Search - Boston College - BC - At a Glance
<a href="http://www.bc.edu/publications/factbook/meta-elements/pdf/07-08/07-08_fact_book.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.bc.edu/publications/factbook/meta-elements/pdf/07-08/07-08_fact_book.pdf</a></p>
<p>"Last year BC had 1621 foreign students applied to BC—larger than the entire student body of Middlebury"</p>
<p>I misspoke here. I meant to say "larger than the entire incoming class of Middlebury."</p>
<p>
[quote]
BC has 287 international undergrads and 480 grads (nothing to write home about) [p.40 fact book]
Middlebury has 260 international undergrads (nothing to brag on an internet forum about) [p. 1 fact book]
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Reddune,
We're not comparing apples to apples here. You fail to note that Boston College has 9,081 undergrads, while Middlebury has 2,400--yet they have approximately the same number of international students. Per capita numbers are more telling of an institution's commitment to international diversity.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I hate to be petty, but Middlebury has 9.8% international and not 11%.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Are you sure the number isn't 9.87638492008127? Give me a break. Even using your numbers, Midd is 10% international. The number has fluxuated between 10% and 11%% over the past 5 years.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Last year BC had 1621 foreign students applied to BC—larger than the entire student body of Middlebury—and we admitted about 20.6% of them. [p.29, BC fact book]
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This year (class of 2012), 1,404 international students applied to Middlebury. When you compare enrollments, Middlebury has far more international applicants per capita than BC.</p>
<p>But you're right. This is petty. Both schools are excellent. I wrote my post to balance the discussion and to dispel some of the other negative Midd posts.</p>
<p>^ Gee. Now you bring up the per capita? </p>
<p>"You'll find that Middlebury has a much broader national and international applicant pool than BC."</p>
<p>Please point out the "per capita" in there because all I got was "broader national and international applicant **pool* than BC."* The previous phrase denotes a numerical superiority, not a "per capita" comparison. Way to backtrack there chief.</p>
<p>"Are you sure the number isn't 9.87638492008127? Give me a break. Even using your numbers, Midd is 10% international. The number has fluxuated between 10% and 11%% over the past 5 years."</p>
<p>I'm just trying to stay with the fact.</p>
<p>Conclusion:
BC has a pathetic percentage of international student body. No one is denying that. But to claim that Middlebury has a "a much broader national and international applicant pool than BC" is a little farfetch. Anyone who had passed the reading comprehension portion of the SAT would realize that the phrase denoted a numerical superiority not a "per capita." Per capita counts, but you have to look at number as well. If we go by a per capita basis alone, then I know of a fundamentalist school that have only 15 students, but 8 of them are from the Middle-East--making the school 50% international. Does that mean that school is a international power house? I don't think so.</p>
<p>Look. You are right. People who didn't know Middlebury had made some gross generalizations or unfounded myths. You have the right the defend your school's reputation. But don't do that at the expense of the other schools. Because if you do, then people like me will feel compel to defend their schools. And then we will have a petty debate over stupid thing like "per capita."</p>
<p>I've learned to qualify my statements so they don't make stupid assumption or stereotypes about other people's schools. This was how I described Middlebury in my first post:</p>
<p>"Middlebury....which I heard from many people is a very good liberal arts school." (which I honestly heard from many people.)</p>
<p>If we all learn to do that, then CC would be little friendlier place.</p>
<p>I was mainly using my numbers to demonstrate that Middlebury has enough of a national and international "brand name" to solicit as many foreign applicants and enroll as many foreign students as "better known" schools that are 3-4 times as large and that are located in 'center of the universe' Boston.</p>
<p>And Reddune, if more posts in this thread had stuck to stats and avoided sterotypes (like your well thought out responses), I would never have posted in the first place.</p>
<p>My son had the choice too.....He chose BC. Didn't like Middlebury at all after a long visit. He liked the BC setting and buisiness program at BC better. After visiting both schools...see which one fits you best and go with that. Good luck!</p>