Be honest-- do I have a chance?

<p>I absolutely adore Columbia, and I'm applying early decision. I just want to know 1) what my chances are for admission, and 2) how I can make myself stand out even more? I don't have a hook, but do you think my application is focused? Thank you in advance.</p>

<p>GPA/School:
-3.95 (unweighted)
-4.64 (weighted on 5.0 scale)
-ranked 2/400 (unweighted)
-ranked 10ish/400 (weighted)
-well-regarded public school in MD</p>

<p>SAT:
-800 reading, 800 writing, 730 math</p>

<p>SAT II:
-math level 2: 760
-spanish: 740
-world history: 710</p>

<p>AP:
-Gov&Pol (4)
-English Lang (5)
-Calc AB (5)
-World History (5)
-Chemistry (4)
-Psychology (5)
-English Lit
-Calc BC
-European History</p>

<p>Extracurriculars:
-literary magazine 2 years, copy editor last year and chief editor this year
-participates in and organizes school poetry readings (affiliated with lit mag) for past two years
-member of selective improvisational theater troupe 2 years
-cappies critics team (writes reviews of high school shows) this year
-very involved in drama department, all 4 years
-softball (JV captain) and varsity last year
-horseback riding lessons (10 years)
-piano lessons (10 years)</p>

<p>Volunteering:
-have been volunteering for 4 years at my grandmother's retirement home, bingo supervisor (2-3 hours per week, 45 weeks per year)
-volunteer at riding stables over summer to help kids learn to ride</p>

<p>Awards/Honors:
-National Merit Scholar (Semifinalist)
-Maryland Distinguished Scholar Finalist
-AP Scholar with Distinction
-MSMTA Piano Theory Award
-National Honor Society
-Foreign Language Honor Society (spanish)</p>

<p>Other stuff to consider:
-I attended a theatre & the arts future leaders summit at columbia the summer after 10th grade, really made me want to attend the university
-my recommendations should be very good (one's from my english teacher of 2 years who's the lit mag adviser, and one is from my theatre teacher of 3 years who's my improv troupe leader and director of most of the shows i've been in)
-my essay refers to theatre and how it's "changed" me (humorous tone, but i think it ends up being pretty original)
-I'm a white female from a middle class family
-I plan to major in english/poli sci/history/sociology</p>

<p>id say you have a good shot. only thing is, ur ec's are not too out of the ordinary.</p>

<p>horseback riding could make you stand out though.</p>

<p>without posting the full text, give us more details on the essay.</p>

<p>also, give us a sense of the major ideas of your "why columbia" essay.</p>

<p>These two items will be the difference. your stats place you on the upper portion of applicants, but you still need to stand out a little.</p>

<p>
[quote]
-have been volunteering for 4 years at my grandmother's retirement home, bingo supervisor (2-3 hours per week, 45 weeks per year)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>its funny how visiting your grandma at the home for a couple hrs a week is now considered volunteer work.</p>

<p>That's a whole lot better than the people who put down that they once donated blood. And it's also a lot better than the people last year who wanted to know how they could use Hurricane Katrina to improve their applications, doing charity work without caring about the victims, only caring about improving their apps.</p>

<p>
[quote]
That's a whole lot better than the people who put down that they once donated blood. And it's also a lot better than the people last year who wanted to know how they could use Hurricane Katrina to improve their applications, doing charity work without caring about the victims, only caring about improving their apps.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>None of this charity / community service stuff matters one bit unless you've done something meaningful. No college cares that you slapped food on plates at a homeless shelter for 132.687 hours.</p>

<p>Actually, I started volunteering before she moved in, and I don't really get to see her when I'm there... she's not a fan of Bingo.</p>

<p>Anyway, thank you guys so much for responding. If you have anything else to say, shoot.</p>

<p>You have a GOOD shot.</p>

<p>I had worse stuff then you and i am an '10
go for it</p>

<p>im jealous..though im not in the same applicant pool. good luck.</p>

<p>grrr 800s.... the SATs are biased I swear. But I do give you the deserved credit for being incredibly smart.</p>

<p>
[quote]
grrr 800s.... the SATs are biased I swear. But I do give you the deserved credit for being incredibly smart.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Biased against people who aren't as smart and/or don't have as good a grasp of the subject matter, certainly.</p>

<p>It is a researched fact that even people with the same level of intelligence and preparedness for the test itself can earn wildly different scores because of some of the gender and culture biases of the test.</p>

<p>
[quote]
It is a researched fact

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Please cite something rather than making a blanket statement.</p>

<p>
[quote]
the same level of intelligence and preparedness

[/quote]
</p>

<p>By intelligence, are you referring to g? to IQ?</p>

<p>And by preparedness, how do you possibly quantify how much studying and knowledge one has absorbed?</p>

<p>
[quote]
wildly different scores

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wildly? Sure you aren't stretching things?</p>

<p>
[quote]
some of the gender and culture biases of the test.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Like what?</p>

<p>well, there are numerous studies that i've seen that depict the cultural bias of the test... like the analogy question involving a sidewalk curb, where the black kid from a rural area had never heard of a curb, etc. he's not making that up.</p>

<p>still, i don't think the difference is as stark as he's claiming. and despite there being a bias: an advantaged upbringing is still an advantage. if columbia wants students most likely to succeed in their future endeavors and bring renown back to their alma mater, students more primed for such things are still better bets. it ain't fair, no, but it's still rational, and the SATs are thus a useful tool in that sense.</p>

<p>/flame away</p>

<p>
[quote]
well, there are numerous studies that i've seen that depict the cultural bias of the test... like the analogy question involving a sidewalk curb, where the black kid from a rural area had never heard of a curb, etc. he's not making that up.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I know he's not making it up that such "studies" exist. However, I submit that they're absolute junk science. They're not even studies that even use statistical methodology for the most part, as they're more sociological rants about how things just aren't fair.</p>

<p>I've never heard this analogy and I'm not attributing it to you, but it's a terrible one. Underprivileged minorities are much more likely to live in large urban areas than rural areas.</p>

<p>I've actually see studies that the test OVERCORRECTS for any cultural biases that might exist. The reading comp always has passages that tend to favor underprivileged minorities and pertain to "diverse" topics.</p>

<p>The reality is that this poster has no clue about that he just said. He likely performed poorly on the SAT and just made a blanket generalization to rationalize his poor performance so that he could blame someone else for it.</p>

<p>let's not get too judgmental. the average SAT score is still around 1000 (or 1500 now i guess). "poor performance" is pretty harsh.</p>

<p>Not everyone's a star, that doesn't mean we need to get snooty about it.</p>

<p>They're NOT junk science.</p>

<p>Correlates of the SAT in minority engineering students: an exploratory study. (Scholastic Aptitude Test)
Jacqueline Fleming Carole Morning
7191 words
1 January 1998
Journal of Higher Education
89
Vol. 69, No. 1, ISSN: 0022-1546</p>

<p>I've skipped some of the methodology but this is far from JUNK SCIENCE.</p>

<p>Measures </p>

<p>The following measures, adapted from research on minority student development in college (Fleming, 1984; Winter, McClelland, & Stewart, 1981), were administered as part of the standard evaluation of Project Preserve students: </p>

<p>Cognitive skills. (1) Concept Formation (Heidbreder, 1948), a measure of basic associative process skills, where the task is to link nonsense syllables with new versions of pictorial concepts. (2) Thematic Analysis (Winter & McClelland, 1978), a measure of comparative analytical ability, where the task is to compare two sets of stories in any way desired. (3) Analysis of Argument (Winter, McClelland & Stewart, 1981), a measure of intellectual flexibility, where the task is to argue against a controversial article on Dr. Spock and permissive child rearing, and then to defend it. Therefore the task requires arguing both for and against one's own beliefs. </p>

<p>Adjustment to college and motivation. (1) An adjustment to college questionnaire, adapted from Fleming (1984), including assessments of: (a) social adjustment; (b) academic adjustment; (c) interactions with college teachers; (d) interactions with high-school teachers; (e) interactions with the mother; (f) interactions with the father; (g) self-concept items; (h) personal threat (adapted from Holmes & Rahe, 1967); (i) subjective perception of the best aspects, worst aspects, and influence of the previous college where they failed (Stewart, 1975); and (j) background information on aspirations, ethnicity, and social class (Hamburger, 1971). </p>

<p>(2) Thematic Apperception Test (TAT), consisting of five verbal cues and scaled for aggression in accordance with previous research indicating its diagnostic value in minorities (Fleming & DuBois, 1981). The cues were scored for: (a) need for Achievement (McClelland, Atkinson, Clark, & Lowell, 1992), a measure of concern for doing things well; (b) Fear of success (Horner & Fleming, 1992) a measure of concern for achievement conflicted by self-sabotaging tendencies; and (c) need for Power (Winter, 1992), a measure of concern for having impact on others. </p>

<p>(3) The Mandler & Sarason (1952) Test Anxiety Questionnaire (TAQ) as a measure of Fear of Failure. </p>

<p>(4) The Holland Vocational Interest Inventory (Holland, 1970; 1973), a measure of six vocational orientations: Investigative (scientific), Realistic (mechanical), Artistic, Social, Enterprising (business), and Conventional (clerical). </p>

<p>Grade point average was available for a maximum of 41 semester grades and 37 cumulative grades. Measures were administered in the order indicated, except that the TAT was given first. </p>

<p>Procedure </p>

<p>Project liaisons arranged for entering students to attend group testing sessions with the project evaluator, a Black female (JF). Groups ranged from 2 to 20 students per session, and the sessions were 2 1/2 hours. Testing sessions were usually conducted mid-semester. Test scores and grades were made available to the evaluator by the project liaison. </p>

<p>Treatment of Data </p>

<p>Twenty-nine percent of the standardized test scores were ACT scores, and the remainder were SAT scores. Thus, ACT scores were converted to SAT scores using a conversion formula given in Langston & Watkins (1976) and updated in Marco & Abdel-Fattah (1991). Test scores were then correlated with the remaining measures in the battery. </p>

<p>Cognitive skills were scored according to procedures described in Fleming (1984) and Fleming, Garcia, & Morning (1995). Scales were constructed from items in the college adjustment questionnaire to measure the following six dimensions: academic adjustment (measuring satisfaction with and commitment to academics), social adjustment (social involvement), interactions with college teachers (nature and degree of constructive contact), interactions with high school-teachers, interactions with the mother, and interactions with the father. Items with scale correlations as well as alpha coefficients were consistent with standard levels. For measures of motivation, total scores were used as well as scores to individual TAT cues and items of the TAQ. </p>

<p>Test scores were correlated with the whole sample and then separately by sex, despite the small numbers, for the sake of thoroughness and in light of significant sex differences in the earlier literature. Although test scores were not correlated with social class in the whole sample, the findings were nonetheless controlled because the dependent variables might be related to SES. Partial correlations were then conducted using father's social class, with mean substitution for missing data (n = 4). An additional control for mother's social class was required for the female results, because their test scores were significantly correlated with this measure. </p>

<p>There are a number of concerns in using SAT scores to predict grades. First, Ramist, Lewis, & McCamley-Jenkins (1994) found that pooling course grades into a composite GPA with no control for comparability of courses diminished predictive validity. However, in their research this problem was minimized among African American students, who comprise 81% of the present sample. Furthermore, lack of course comparability should be less of a problem in the engineering curriculum, because it is heavily dominated by math and science courses, which typically yield the highest SAT validity coefficients. Second, SAT scores were pooled across institutions to perform correlations with grades and other measures because of the small number of students. Such a procedure can be problematic because of expected institutional variations in predictive validity and other school characteristics (cf. Willingham & Lewis, 1990). However, predictive validity coefficients are given separately for each school, and significant school differences in dependent variables are noted in the text. Third, note that no correction for restriction of range of test scores was employed, which may underestimate the size of the predictive validity coefficients. </p>

<p>Results </p>

<p>Predictive Validity of Standardized Test Scores </p>

<p>Table 2 presents correlation coefficients for SAT (or ACT) scores for first and second semester and cumulative grades of all Project Preserve students as well as a function of sex, ethnicity, and college. Due to larger numbers of subjects, the first semester grades are assumed to be the [TABULAR DATA FOR TABLE 2 OMITTED] most reliable and most relevant, because the correlation was produced in the project school, whereas cumulative grades include past performance. In most cases, the first semester correlations were similar to the average for all four correlations. In the aggregate, test scores produced a low correlation with semester grades of 0.242 (5.8% of the variance). The validity coefficient for females was higher than for males but still in the low range, i.e., 0.283 (7.9%) versus 0.209 (4.4%). Predictive validity for African American students was substantially higher than the low negative coefficient for Latino students: 0.281 (7.8%) versus -0.049 (0.2%). By school, only predictive validity for Xavier was in the high range (0.533; 28.4%), whereas the coefficients for both CSUN and CCNY were quite low: 0.163 (2.7%) and 0.015 (0.02%), respectively. Only the coefficients for Xavier were statistically significant. </p>

<p>Correlates of the SAT </p>

<p>Table 3 shows that standardized test scores were correlated with 14 variables suggesting a low achievement orientation. Of the three measures of cognitive skills, test scores correlated significantly only with Concept Formation (r = 0.337, p [less than] 0.05), a measure of basic associative process skill, but not with two measures of higher-order critical thinking skills. Test scores were not significantly correlated with semester or cumulative GPA for the first semester in the program. Nor were there significant correlations with the measure of academic or social adjustment scales. However, two significant correlations were produced with items of the Academic Adjustment Scale: negatively with the importance of getting good grades (r = -0.339, p [less than] 0.05); and negatively with the cramming index, i.e., the increase in studying during exams (r = -0.310, p [less than] 0.05). Test scores were also uncorrelated with the Interactions with College Teachers Scale (ICT) and the Interactions with High School [TABULAR DATA FOR TABLE 3 OMITTED] Teachers Scale (IHST), but there were two negative correlations with items of the IHST Scale: seeking assistance from high-school teachers with courses (r = -0.396, p [less than] 0.01); and seeking assistance from highschool teachers with planning the future (r = -0.341, p [less than] 0.05). Test scores were correlated with two items from the College Climate Questionnaire assessing perception of the previous colleges, where students failed the first year: negatively with "the best of (the previous) college is new people" (r = -0.337, p [less than] 0.05), and "the influence of (previous) college is identity formation" (r = 0.354, p [less than] 0.05). Test scores were correlated with two measures of motivation: negatively with the Test Anxiety Questionnaire, conceived as a measure of fear of failure (r = -0.339, p [less than] 0.05); and negatively with need for Achievement to story 3: A mother is about to punish her child again (r = -0.306, p [less than] 0.05). Finally, test scores were correlated with sex, such that males achieved better test scores (r = -0.328, p [less than] 0.05).</p>

<p>Correlates of the SAT in Project Preserve Males </p>

<p>In the 31 males with test scores, the SAT was correlated with eight variables indicating task competence but lack of interactions with highschool teachers (see table 4). Test scores were not correlated with any of the three measures of cognitive ability or with academic performance. Test scores were not correlated with scales measuring social or academic adjustment, but with one item of the Academic Adjustment Scale: having a career-related job (r = 0.362, p [less than] 0.05). Test scores were not correlated with Interactions with High School or College Teachers Scales, but were correlated with two items of the IHST scale: negatively correlated with seeking course assistance from high-school teachers (r = -0.407, p [less than] 0.05), and negatively with "had informal contact with highschool teachers outside of class" (r = -0.353, p [less than] 0.05). Test scores were negatively correlated with "the best aspect of the previous college being new people" (r = -0.456, p [less than] 0.05). In terms of motivation, test scores were not correlated with the Test Anxiety Questionnaire but were correlated [TABULAR DATA FOR TABLE 4 OMITTED] with three items from the TAQ, all suggesting test confidence: feeling confident before taking a test (r = 0.447, p [less than] 0.05), not worrying before taking a test (r = 0.393, p [less than] 0.05), and performance on the SAT not affected by feelings (r = 0.443, p [less than] 0.05). Also, test scores were negatively related to need for Power (r = -0.392, p [less than] 0.05). </p>

<p>In short, this list of correlates suggests test confidence and a career-related job on the positive side but a motivational profile and high-school adjustment that cannot be described as positive. Despite evidence of task competence and cognitive skill, minority males with higher SAT scores appear to suffer most from the lack of guidance and contact from teachers in high school. This apparent lack of mentoring may have contributed to their academic vulnerability. </p>

<p>Discussion </p>

<p>Given past research on test scores and on Project Preserve students, it was expected that an examination of correlates of test scores would shed light on issues of academic difficulty among minority engineering students. Indeed, the results suggest reasons why SAT scores may not predict grades as consistently among minority students, why academic failure is not a simple matter of preparedness, and the role that teachers or mentors play in the equation. </p>

<p>It was hypothesized that test scores would correlate significantly with measures of cognitive ability, but not with academic performance, which may be influenced by college adjustment, and negatively with measures of college adjustment itself. Also, given past research on Project Preserve students (Fleming, Garcia, & Morning, 1995), negative correlations between test scores and teacher interactions were expected. In broad outline, the hypotheses were confirmed, but there were important sex differences in the pattern of results. </p>

<p>On the most reliable measure of grade averages available, validity coefficients were indeed low, with test scores accounting for 5.8% of the variance in grades, compared to an average of 12% for majority students in the previous literature. For African American students, variance accounted for was 7.8% compared to the average of 9% in the previous literature. For Latino students, variance accounted for was -0.2% compared to the average of 5%. Predictive validity was higher for females than for males (7.9% and 4.4%, respectively), although both rates were low relative to previous research. When validity coefficients were examined by school, historically Black Xavier University students produced the only high coefficient, accounting for 28.4% of the variance in grades, compared to the average of 21% for students in Historically Black schools in past research. Thus, with the exception of Xavier University, the validity coefficients are so low as to suggest the presence of adjustment issues compromising the degree of predictive validity. </p>

<p>For all students, test scores were correlated with Concept Formation, one measure (of three) of cognitive ability measuring basic associative process skills. It is noteworthy that test scores were unrelated to two measures of higher-order cognitive skills. However, this pattern suggests that test score potential and basic cognitive ability do not translate well into academic performance. The question, then, is why not? Although Project Preserve students with higher test scores showed evidence of test confidence and stable study habits, there was also evidence of poor adjustment: a low achievement orientation associated with low teacher contact. A relative lack of contact with high-school teachers was linked to lack of interest in achieving good college grades or planning for advanced degrees. </p>

<p>Test scores were related to sex, with males having significantly higher test scores, which led to an examination of the correlates separately by sex. Among the 31 males in the sample, test scores were not significantly correlated with academic performance, nor were test scores correlated with any of the measures of cognitive ability. The remaining correlates suggested two trends among minority males: task competencies, but low power motivation that appears linked to low contact with high-school teachers. Among the 17 females in the sample, few correlates survived controls for social class, but the strongest was negative (or less positive) interactions with college teachers as measured by the ICT Scale. Remaining correlates suggested that the higher the female student's self-concept, the less positive the interactions with college teachers. Thus, although both minority males and females with better test scores appear to experience difficulty in establishing positive contact with teachers, the problem appears earlier among males than females. Minority males with better verbal and analytical reasoning ability experience low teacher contact in high school, which is linked to a low achievement orientation. Minority females with better test scores do not appear to report less positive teacher contact until college, which may help account for the persistence of their significantly higher self-esteem. Although developmental relationships with parents were assessed, they did not figure prominently in the results. </p>

<p>These findings are consistent with the previous analyses of cognitive skills in this group of students, which showed that greater critical thinking abilities among minorities do not necessarily result in positive outcomes in education (Fleming, Garcia, & Morning, 1995). Better cognitive skills were associated with poor adjustment in college, including alienation and negative interactions with teachers, although there were institutional differences in that the findings were most pronounced in predominantly White schools with less faculty support. For SAT scores, fewer interactions with high-school teachers were observed for males, and less positive interactions with college teachers were observed for females, findings that are consistent with a series of studies showing the demotivating influence of teachers in interaction with minority students and that bright minority students experience the worst teacher treatment (Contrearas & Lee, 1990; Trujillo, 1986; Kahle & Lakes, 1983; Rubovits & Maehr, 1977). The lowest teacher-interaction ratings in the present study were found in the two predominantly White schools. </p>

<p>The results have a number of implications for SAT score validity, for bright minority students, and for retention efforts. First, the results suggest that low SAT validity coefficients are not necessarily evidence that the SAT is biased or invalid for minority students. Rather, validity coefficients appear to be low when adjustment to college is poor, so that test score potential does not translate properly into academic performance. In assessing test score validity, the psychological environment of minority students has so far been ignored as the potent factor it appears to be. Second, the results suggest that bright minority students (defined by higher SAT scores) may not receive the necessary nurturing from teachers and that this neglect contributes to their academic difficulty. Though higher education is often concerned with helping academically underprepared students, the benign neglect of minority talent has gone all but unnoticed. Third, the results provide an additional mission for retention efforts: designing strategies to ensure the nurturance of even the most able minority students. Although other research suggests the importance of strong support figures (Tracey & Sedlacek, 1987) and achievementoriented study groups (Fullilove & Treisman, 1990), neither support staff nor bright minority students themselves may realize their vulnerable status. However, evidence that 50% of the correlates of higher SAT scores are either inauspicious or negative is cause for concern. </p>

<p>The effectiveness of support programs like Project Preserve may lie in providing what is necessary for academic development but not necessarily readily available to minority students. This analysis suggests that positive contact with teachers might help students translate demonstrated test score potential into academic performance. The Project Preserve approach did indeed include promotion of relationships with faculty as well as other means to encourage bonding. Although major theories of retention acknowledge the difficulty of minority students in achieving membership in the social system of college (Tinto, 1975), their more restricted interpersonal network (Fleming, 1984), and their ethnic isolation (Landis, 1991), the impact of teachers who fail to nurture brighter minority students has yet to be fully acknowledged.</p>

<p>To the OP, you have a good shot at Columbia ED -- but be forwarned, admissions at these selective schools can be very random. However, as many others have pointed out, the fact you don't seem obsessive/sociopathic in your pursuits probably puts you at an advantage.</p>

<p>I could comment on the SAT debate, but I'd rather not argue. Instead, I think it might be better for people to do their own research; there definitely is compelling evidence out there that suggests the SAT tests absolutely nothing beyond how well you can take a test, and I hope people will at least make an effort to inform themselves about this before jumping to conclusions.</p>

<p>However, it should definitely NOT be confused with an intelligence test. College Board itself admits that the test only tests "preparedness for college" and not intelligence.</p>