<p>Gwen Fairfax, colleges aren’t dummies. Most of them don’t count the years of math taken in high school they look at what the highest level taken was. She’ll look like a kid who was accelerated in math but had other interests senior year. That’s not the end of the world. And it was probably better for her to have a poor Geometry grade in 9th grade than 10th as that’s the year colleges are most likely to overlook some bumps.</p>
<p>GFG I had our 6th and 7th grade math books side by side when advocating for having my son skipped ahead in math. They were identical except for a chapter on bar and whisker graphs. It was so demoralizing - no wonder our kids do so badly on world math exams! In any even what finally happened after weeks of them trying to stonewall is that they agreed to give my son the final exam from the math course I wanted him to skip. He did fine and skipped. (In fact several other students heard about it and did the same thing.) I think the middle school is FINALLY (five years later and me mentoring parents in what to do) getting the message, but they really are impossible. Thankfully the high school experience was just the opposite.</p>
<p>Good luck to you! In thinking about this, the issue of “warehousing” and student behavior in the regular classes is an overwhelming argument to me. Unfortunately, that’s not one that you can easily make to the school; in fact, I’d advise against mentioning it. (I think that schools in general like to preserve the fiction that the classes are well-behaved.) </p>
<p>Our school district permits parents to waive their children into classes of any math level, although the student has to subsequently earn a B to stay in that level. They do not advertise the possibility, but will “reveal” it to a parent who asks. All of the children I know who were placed by their parents have been successful at the higher level. If there is an option to back out, in case your daughter actually cannot understand the material, then I hope the school will let her in to pre-algebra.</p>
<p>Regarding higher education, based on her current performance I am now assuming she will be attending a four-year college. A secondary concern I have about the lowest math placement is readiness for college-level work without the need for expensive remedial courses done in college. My eldest took Calc BC as a junior, got a 5 on the AP exam, and yet was unprepared for the math he saw in his freshman year econ class at an Ivy. D is at HYPS and is struggling in math, despite having taken four years of math in high school and scoring well on her SAT. She had to drop down to a lower level than what would have been expected given her background and had to delay the start of her major courses accordingly. A high school friend of hers who went to Berkeley had the same experience, and she was one of the top math students in that high school (won the senior physics award). These girls were on the Algebra in 7th grade track, so I can only imagine what would happen for our second D if she didn’t have algebra until 9th grade–3 years of remedial math to get to a college level? Our high school isn’t the best in the state, but it’s a good, affluent suburban high school that gets a nice group of kids into top schools each year. So I don’t know what to think about how they’re teaching math other than it is not up to snuff even at the highest levels.</p>
<p>I ran into this situation when my daughter entered HS and my suggestion is to look at the big picture. I was given the opportunity to sign a waiver - but ultimately decided against it and took the school’s recommended placement. It turned out to be a poor decision on my part because my daughter was an outstanding science student and a good math student. The lower placement meant that she didn’t have the pre and co-requisites in time to take certain science classes- most notably AP chem. This is turn impacted her SATII and AP test selection and is now impacting her college course selection. In retrospect, if you have a student who wants to pursue a more challenging course load but the student is “on the bubble” I would have to say - trust the student - ask for a waiver or sign up for summer school.</p>
<p>I guess I’m the odd-man out here. For one only planning on three years of HS math (thru Alg II), accelerating in m/s makes absolutely no sense. None. Just to prove a point?</p>
<p>GFG- lead with your strengths- which is clearly your D. Don’t expect the school to care about her college options; don’t expect the school to care about the socialization aspects of being with more ambitious kids; don’t expect the school to care that you don’t want to or can’t afford outside tutoring.</p>
<p>Your D is remarkable, and if she can lead the charge in getting placed in the more challenging class- she can frame it as “an experiment”, I can’t see even a tough bureaucrat saying no.</p>
<p>If this child is not likely to attend an Ivy or Stanford, you don’t have to worry about remedial math courses…even if she remains in the less advanced track. Most colleges do NOT assume a student has had calculus in HS…and most universities have various levels of intro math courses. Calculus is needed for majoring in many sciences and Econ…along with a few other subjects…but, if she is leaning that way as she moves through HS, she could accelerate math at a local community college the summer after her senior year – which should not be a huge expense.</p>
<p>This will be the first IEP meeting that will include my D. The case manager has already interviewed her a couple of weeks ago in preparation for the meeting, but I am sure they will still question her from time to time. A friend suggested having her write out a statement, and I think it should sound like what you wrote in your earlier post, blossom.</p>
<p>I think I am paralyzed by the concern that the school has never really been on “my side.” So for every argument I can think of, I can anticipate how that will trap me and how how they will counter it. For example, my D’s primary strengths are her motivation and work ethic. Because she works hard, she excels. But the school adheres to the idea that if you have to work really hard in math, then you must not be in the appropriate level course. It shouldn’t be a struggle, in their opinion. They are especially afraid of special ed. kids being stressed–hence the ubiquitous dumbing down I tried to rescue her from. Those of us with high-achieving neurotypical kids know they worked super hard to get where they are, despite the fact that they are smart and capable. Their mindset sees hard work as an indication of a lack of innate ablilty.</p>
<p>Which economics course? At some schools, the intermediate microeconomics course uses multivariable calculus, which is normally taken after freshman calculus or BC.</p>
<p>bluebayou–just like at whiterockmom’s school, math placement is linked to science placement. So she will also have to stay in lower level science classes. At our high school, this is not a difference in what year you take the class, but also what class you take. For example, the kids who talk algebra in 7th grade, take honors college physics as a freshman. Those who take algebra in 8th grade, will take honors environmental science, not physics.</p>
<p>Give it your best try, and see how it goes from there, is the way I see it. She is young enough that if the placement into the more advanced course is a mistake then, it is not a huge deal. You seem to have the ammo to talk to the school. If she has an IEP, it should be written in there as to what the aspirations are in terms of mainstreaming to the highest level possible.</p>
<p>I should mention an auxiliary issue. The case manager hinted in her e-mail that if I was seeking the highest placement for my D in all subjects, then she doesn’t see how she can maintain a classification for D. I saw that as a threat, since D still needs language therapy/social skills training, as well as certain minor accommodations related to some sensory and processing issues (more time for art projects, etc.) On the other hand, if D is performing at grade level or above, then she doesn’t meet the guidelines for the classification she currently has. Also in a phone conversation the case manager implied that I’d have to trade in the IEP if I wanted high placement for next year.</p>
<p>Just study math with your child at home and she will be way on her merry way math-wise. Whatever math she takes in 7 -8 grade in American school, is pretty irrelevant and by far not enough to insure solid background for science classes. From a parent of college graduates with solid math background, one is making sure his own kids know math well and another one going to Med. School in few weeks. I continued with the same approach with my grandkids. It could be a game while driving, does not have to be something serious. It is even better if they can do all solving in their head without paper. Now, my 10 and 12 years old grandkids are helping their classmates and getting huge appreciation notes from their teachers. School program is pretty pathetic, my granddaughter complains being bored in math classes. Many college kids who choose engineering / pre-med do not understand very basic math and have problem in classes like chemistry. They are trying to memorize where it is not helpful at all, where they need to use their math background. Unfortunately they do not have enough to apply.</p>
<p>GFG- don’t let them blackmail you over the IEP. And you are not seeking to trade a documented disability/accommodations for your D’s appropriate math placement.</p>
<p>I gather that your D is not a troublemaker when she’s bored, correct? So there is zero downside to the school to keeping her in a dumbed down curriculum, other than having to deal with “hyper pushy mom” (not saying you are… just giving their impression of a parent of a kid with special needs who is all of a sudden getting uppity that her kid needs both accommodations AND acceleration. Which of course they loathe; twice as much work for everyone.)</p>
<p>The good news is that if you fail you are no worse off than before. You can then decide if it’s worth trying to get your D some math enrichment elsewhere. But not try seems silly. And I bet your D can talk them into it.</p>
<p>I have seen the attitude that you describe re: the work and the stress. The same people who love an athlete who pushes him/herself to the limit, works hard to overcome obstacles, etc. think it’s dysfunctional for someone to push on academics. Where is it written that hard work equals stress?</p>
<p>Our situation is different but I’ll mention it as it relates to math tracking and how we dealt with it.</p>
<p>Our kids are put in advanced math in middle school (started in 6th), largely based on a standardized test in the 4th grade. My youngest son got an A in the advanced 6th grade math but was dropped from the program after missing a ‘pass/advance’ on a state standardized exam given at the end of 6th grade by 5 points (out of 600). We asked for reconsideration but were turned down. Seventh grade regular math, straight A’s and a perfect score on the state exam (very rare)…he was not allowed to return to the program. Eighth grade regular math, straight A’s and a perfect score on the state exam. He asked to take Alg 1 prior to starting hs in summer school but was told it was only for remedial. Okay?? During this time his other classes were all advanced and he received departmental awards for math, science, and civics. Yea, this makes sense. </p>
<p>This year as a freshman he took Algebra 1 and during the second semester he took Geometry independently online as a full year course. He received pass/advanced on both state exams and A’s in both classes. He will take Alg2/Trig Honors next year. It took THREE years but he is finally where he should be. The only thing that was hurt here was his self esteem. His transcript will be slightly different from his peers, but I don’t think he’ll be hurt in admissions. The other kids will have Alg 1 in 8th, Goe in 9th. He will have Alg 1 & Geo doubled up in 9th with A’s. Not a big deal.</p>
<p>There is always more than one way to skin a cat and in this case it worked just fine waiting.</p>
<p>We navigated the special education system with a gifted child (my oldest) and it is NOT easy! May the force be with you!! :)</p>
<p>OH, I just remembered, like limabeans, one of my DDs was not chosen in early grade 6 to join a small group who were working ahead in math with the idea of taking algebra in grade 7 rather than 8. I spoke to the teacher in the fall and she agreed, grudgingly, to allow DD to work through the book. As I recall we had to do something over the summer. She did fine, A in Algebra, etc. What a pain.</p>
<p>Actually, there are only four schools that I know of that calculus in high school is probably the expected norm for entering freshmen – Caltech, Harvey Mudd, MIT, and Washington University (engineering majors). The first three compress a year of freshman calculus into one semester, probably at what would be considered an honors level elsewhere. Washington University and other good schools (e.g. Ivys, Stanford, Berkeley, etc.) offer freshman calculus courses for those with no previous calculus, but Washington University assumes that engineering majors start in second semester of freshman calculus (at other schools, this is an option for those with AP or community college calculus credit).</p>
<p>I’m possibly facing a related situation with my D. She is switching to our local public HS for 10th grade from a small performing arts-oriented charter school. The counselor offered my D a choice of regular or Honors English when selecting classes, and my D selected honors since it is her best subject, she had A’s in 9th grade, and she was often annoyed by the slow pace of her regular 9th grade English class (her school did not offer honors).
We subsequently received an email stating that they needed more information (middle school standardized test scores) in order to place her in Honors unless she had been in honors English in 9th grade. I’m afraid her middle school scores won’t be good enough and they won’t put her in honors. I’m also afraid that if I go in and fight to have her placed in honors that it might, in fact, be too much for her. It’s a stressful and confusing situation. Coming from a small charter school, we aren’t really sure what to expect at the public HS, but it doesn’t seem right that a student is restricted from opportunities based on middle school test scores.
Sorry, I don’t mean to high-jack the thread.</p>