<p>I appreciate OneSongGlory’s post regarding pitch notation and, sadly, must agree that I did come off as a little rude to BroadwayJen. Jen, I apologize. </p>
<p>I was guilty of that unfortunate adult tendency to feel superior to young people and did not do my homework as well as I should have before I made my first post to her. I was too quick to judge her as being misinformed and did not consider that I might be less well-informed than I thought. I allowed a haughty tone to come through in my post. I can see that saying that I did not want her to come across as silly when she listed her vocal range on her resume did not sound helpful, even though deep down, I truly did not want her to look unknowledgeable on her resume.</p>
<p>I apologize for not digging deeper before posting in regard to octave notation. I'm a little embarrassed that I allowed my clay feet to show at CC. I fully acknowledge that we can all learn something new! In my defense, I will say that I checked to see if my memory were correct before I made my first post. I referenced several music theory texts and two music dictionaries (including the Harvard Brief Dictionary of Music, which was written by musicologists from Harvard and Indiana U.) before I posted the first time in regard to pitch notation. All of the sources that I checked use the Helmholtz system. In my family, we have attended a combined 5 different music schools, all of which use Helmholtz. My MT D has always used the Helmholtz system when listing her vocal range on her resumes. All 5 of the voice teachers she’s worked with in H.S. and college plus her H.S. vocal coach were aware of how she designated her vocal range. No one has ever mentioned using a different system to her. I blithely assumed that since the sources I checked agreed with what I recalled being taught in music school, I was correct. When Jen and a couple of other students agreed that they had been taught differently, I realized that another system must be in use and did more research. </p>
<p>I will quibble about a couple of things. OneSongGlory wrote:
“BroadwayJen07 was correct that different instruments call middle C different things. While singers refer to C4 (or c1 in Helmholtz) as middle C, other instruments may refer to C5 (c2 Helmholtz) as middle C. So in that sense, she is correct." </p>
<p>Neither my husband nor I have ever heard an experienced musician refer to any C other than the one written on the ledger line between the treble and bass staffs as middle C. I acknowledge that the term middle C is a nickname, but it is a very standard one, unlike some other nicknames for pitches. For example, the method books most commonly used by piano teachers in my area refer to the Cs an octave above and below middle C as treble C and bass C, respectively. However, there are many other nicknames in use in piano method books. My husband is a middle and H.S. band director. He tells me that he’s heard flute students, for example, occasionally refer to their lowest C, which would be middle C in the standard vernacular, as low C, the C an octave higher as middle C, and the C an octave above that as high C. He says, however, that even his middle school students would know what is normally meant by the term middle C. His students understand that referring to middle C as low C because it happens to be the lowest C they can play on their instrument is a non-standard moniker. It makes sense to me that some teachers who work with beginning wind students might use the term middle C in the way I described above, but I’ve honestly never heard a trained musician do so. </p>
<p>OneSongGlory also wrote, “ it's a pointless argument saying that piano location/keys are irrelevant, because both of these systems base their notation off of an 88-key piano.” I assume this was directed toward me. I never said that the piano was irrelevant when it came to pitch nomenclature. I agree that both systems base their nomenclature on the piano keyboard. What I said was that my husband and I were taught that the vernacular name, middle C, comes from the fact that the middle C line is centered between the two most commonly used staffs - treble and bass. Though it's true that middle C on a piano is the C in the middle of the keyboard, we were always taught that it was the note's written location that gave it its nickname. Though, who knows? Perhaps it's both. However, I do not believe that stating that the term middle C comes from it’s written appearance rather than its location on the piano is equivalent to saying that “piano location/keys are irrelevant” when it comes to octave nomenclature. </p>
<p>Apologies again to any who were offended and to all for hijacking this thread!</p>
<p>Jen, I hope that going with "Anything" works for you. Break a leg!</p>