<p>Doing some research for a friend, and it seems becoming a Trader(well, a successful one) is just as hard as becoming an IB. So I have some questions to ask about how one should prepare themselves to become a trader.</p>
<p>1)How do potential traders make themselves stick out? I know for Investment Banking there are easier trading internships to get in regional firms- is this also true of trading firms? </p>
<p>2)I have heard in college it breaks down into a corporate finance/investment management split in terms of courses in stuff. So should a trade learn about investment management and things, or are there special courses for traders to take? </p>
<p>3) I have heard Investment Bankers generally work at an Investment Bank for 2 years then go onto Business School. I know out of college, a potential trader would start as an Assistant Trader. How many years would it take to be promoted to a Trader without business school, and if you go to business school how many years should you stay as an Assistant Trader to get work experience? </p>
<p>4) Do Traders really need to go to business school at all? I heard somewhere they usually don't need to, but on some career websites I read that you need an M.B.A. to get a position as a trader, and not just an assistant trader.</p>
<p>Thanks,
Mike</p>
<p>I would really like some knowledgeable people here, like Alexandre or mahras types. If you are a high school kid interested in Investment Banking who will come here and totally misinform me and/or flame trading, just do me a favor and leave the thread.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Ways to make you stand out - show you're very interested in the market, either by trading your own successful portfolio during college or doing some kind of market related research -- i've heard of someone who once did a research project on market efficiency with football betting during college and this sparked some interest during his interview. Also having strong quant skills is good too, if you win math competitions that will really help.</p></li>
<li><p>I'd say that the things that can help you during college would be Comp Sci, Stat classes, math classes, classes about derivatives, and other financial instruments. Understand that quant skills and programming skills are really helpful in general with trading. Especially now because certain areas are becoming automated so you need to focus on areas that might be more obscure.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>An MBA is worthless to a trader. Traders need to have good quantitative skills.</p>
<p>
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you said a lot of things are becoming automated- does this mean a trader's job is in danger?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, it means that if one aspires to become a trader but does not have good quant skills and programming skills, one is at a great disadvantage. People who don't have good quant and programming skills have their career as a trader in danger.</p>
<p>So what are some top trading internships for a student to get while in college. I mean mostly over the summer ones, to help boost trading experience, and your resume. </p>
<p>
[quote]
1)How do potential traders make themselves stick out? I know for Investment Banking there are easier trading internships to get in regional firms- is this also true of trading firms?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You apply to various trading firms, go to interviews, and then get selected. Banks, hedge funds, and proprietary trading firms (and I do mean proprietary not some retail/arcade joint) all hire out of undergrad. </p>
<p>
[quote]
2)I have heard in college it breaks down into a corporate finance/investment management split in terms of courses in stuff. So should a trade learn about investment management and things, or are there special courses for traders to take?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Most firms spend the first couple of months "unlearning" you of the stuff you were taught in business schools. Practical education is important and the only place you will get it is by working in the industry. Take good problem solving courses and definitely know how to program (you don't need to be a software engineer but you should be able to code) and have a good quantitative background (refers to the problem solving part). </p>
<p>
[quote]
3) I have heard Investment Bankers generally work at an Investment Bank for 2 years then go onto Business School. I know out of college, a potential trader would start as an Assistant Trader. How many years would it take to be promoted to a Trader without business school, and if you go to business school how many years should you stay as an Assistant Trader to get work experience?</p>
<p>4) Do Traders really need to go to business school at all? I heard somewhere they usually don't need to, but on some career websites I read that you need an M.B.A. to get a position as a trader, and not just an assistant trader.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Traders don't go to MBA programs. Most start as an assistant trader working under a trader while doing various tasks to get acquainted and learn the ropes. After this you become a trader and are allowed to take risks.</p>
<p>I suggest you search these forums for discussions in the various types of trading (flow vs prop. etc).</p>
<p>Thanks a lot mahras, that is exactly what I was looking for. Could you comment on how hard it is to get a job as an assistant trader, coming out of a regional school in a good location, like Fordham University? </p>
<p>And how many years does one work as assistant trader before one becomes a trader(I am guessing this is also based on success as an assistant trader, but an average time would be great.) </p>
<p>That would be rather difficult coming out of Fordham but not impossible. Positions at top banks or HFs, however, will be very difficult. You will just need to be more aggressive.</p>
<p>I'd just like to add that it isn't a MUST MUST MUST that you learn programming. Is it a good to know? Definitely, especially if you want to work on more exotic products. But it's not compulsary, and it is something that you can pick up along the way.</p>
<p>Look into Bentley College in Waltham Mass. They have a trading room that is unbelievable. They also have a strong finance program with a stock analysis concentration. This might be just what you are looking for.</p>
<p>Why exactly is programming a neccesary skill for a trader to have, and exactly when will a trader need to use this skill on the job, as many people have mentioned in this thread? Thanks.</p>
<p>Traders often use Excel to develop their own pricers and trading algorithms. Besides, traders have an infinite creativity to design new financial products and they usually don't wait for the IT department to provide them with the appropriate software: they tend to trade first, then quickly develop their own software to keep track of the trades , calculate P&L, and so on.</p>
<p>Any production ready software will be created by the IT dept. </p>
<p>Programming is often viewed to be the domain of the programmer only. However, its a tool. Due to markets becoming faster and more complex, programming is a tool that will allow you to keep pace with your competitors. Its a pain to explain something that you want built to the programmers without at least having a prototype handy. Not to mention people in quant intensive areas often do research which requires at least some programming skill. </p>
<p>You don't need to be a programming god (you have IT for production). You just need to be good enough to get by.</p>
<p>What are some good programming languages to become proficient in? VBA and C++? Will knowing them help in the interview process for trading positions at IB's or HF's?</p>
<p>The preferred language varies depending on the shop. VBA is something you should know (and it really isn't hard to pick up on) whether in trading or IBD (this is based on my friend's experience). It generally isn't difficult to pick up another language once you know one. So, if you know C++ or JAVA you will be in a good enough shape.</p>
<p>From my research, you should learn either java or old school c#. This is from discussions on the site point forum. Why? i cant really remember their reasons and i have not started learning as of yet, so i cant tell you.</p>
<p>I'm no expert on this subject, but it would make sense that you would need to know some programming for excel spreadsheet modules.</p>
<p>However, my guess is that when dealing with IT, a fundamental understanding of programming would be sufficient and the most useful skill here would be the ability to transform business logic into a form that the IT staff can understand and create a program for. </p>
<p>Since I'm assuming these are some of the best and brightest programmers around, leaving the programming to them seems appropriate. I doubt a trader has time to stay up on programming concepts aside from the little modules he may often use in excel.</p>