<p>Where did you hear that from? Why would the people who apply to University of Chicago be more selective than the people who apply to MIT, Harvard, Rice, Cornell, or the other colleges? Even if the applicant pool were more selective, that doesn't chance the fact that a person applying has almost a one in two chance of getting in.</p>
<p>I couldn't agree more completely. People need to learn how to chill out and calm down a little bit.</p>
<p>Amen.</p>
<p>I'll echo what iljets10 said. I completely agree with you, you have to learn to live life rather than be obsessed with your high school resume. Of course I took the hardest classes and challenged myself in high school but I didn't do it to the unhealthy level that I see many here do. In my resume and interviews the admissions boards saw a real well rounded person rather than a textbook and I know that is why I got into my "dream" school. And plus, once you get accepted and finish high school, no-one out there cares what you did during high school. Live a little.</p>
<p>The people that are you talking about are like .5% of the kids in school. Maybe its time to worry about the kids dropping out...</p>
<p>I agree to a point. I was happy with my 3.something GPA and mediocre (by CC standards) SAT score until I happened upon this site. Then I was like whoa these kids have so much more, I need to catch up. In a way it helped me to improve academically, but it has also made me more competitive to an extent that others have noticed my change. I'm willing to step on more than a few toes to be val next year...</p>
<p>Well, I used to be this hyper-competitive scores-obsessed person. Then I became a nihilist. Really - all of this achievement is worthless, meaningless. The only reason why it's valued is because you happen to live in a society that values it. In other words, SOCIETY makes it the only thing that's valued. </p>
<p>But on the other hand, what if you actually ENJOYED studying? What if you actually found all of the advice on "having fun" meaningless because you have more fun studying than doing anything else? The prime example of this: Paul Erdos. He didn't give a crap about his achievement. He only cared about math math math. It's a perfectly fine obsession. And he was so obsessed with math that he even went on amphetamines so that he could work on math more. It's not achievement he's after - he's more after the intrinsic love of the subject. </p>
<p>So in any case, how will I interpret this? Academic achievements are intrinsically meaningless. But on the other hand, if you intrinsically enjoy academics (or taking tests for that matter), then pursue it all you want to. </p>
<p>Of course, this post addresses more pursuit of recognition/achievements more so than pursuit of academics for its pure sake - which relatively few people are after since humans who might have the potential to study more haven't yet had a chance to really reproduce more so than those who didn't. </p>
<p>However, of course most humans don't naturally enjoy academics. Natural Selection has not programmed us to live in this digital world. It's often said that ADD is nothing more than a disease of society - hunters living in a gatherer's world. </p>
<p>On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with stressing out over grades and pursuing academic achievement if you're a masochist. Nothing intrinsically wrong. ;) It might increase your stress levels significantly - nothing intrinsically wrong with that. Well anyways...</p>
<p>A society in which everyone is an underachiever - how will it function? Really, there probably are good things about people prizing achievement. Most people I know from school are underachievers. There are a few overachievers of course - but think of this - would soceity be any better off if there were no overachievers? I'm saying this from whaat people define as "society being better off" since I'm a relativist/nihilist. </p>
<p>Have to go now, I'm off</p>
<p>In any case, I have Asperger's Syndrome, so I don't really enjoy anything.</p>
<p>Look - society could have gone a lot of different ways. It could have treasured recognition and acknowledgement in ways other than academics, had we been living in a different time period. And the only reason why we even crave recognition is that it's a result of natural selection from the past - since a lot of people who did crave status in their own little stone age societies were able to get more wives and reproduce more (lol, I'm a strong believer of sociobiology). Really, when you think of it deeply - there's no intrinsic reason why you should be above anyone else in just ONE THING THAT SOCIETY HAS JUST ARBITRARILY DETERMINED.</p>
<p>That being said though, there of course are reasons why education is important if you want society to progress in its own ways. After all, science is helping improve the quality of life of many. But that's something that's different from craving academic accomplishment and recognition. Western cultures after all, prize individuality so much over Asian cultures. </p>
<p>I've read the Underachiever's Manifesto - interesting read, that is. I'm now trying to get myself internally motivated, rather than externally motivated, as I was in the past.</p>
<p>===</p>
<p>On the other hand... There are some legitimate reasons to pursuing academic achievements. Getting into Caltech, for example. It IS an experience that you won't find in pretty much ANY OTHER college. It's a college where NERDS dominate. You won't find such a concentration of specialized nerds anywhere else - not even MIT anymore, since MIT is becoming more and more like an Ivy. And for those with Asperger's Syndrome like me who pretty much can't befriend anyone - we have a higher chance of at least making one friend there. But of course, for most people, they can easily just do as well in an Honors program in a state university. And for those like me - we can pursue unschooling instead of even going to university.</p>
<p>And what if you WANT to go into a particular research field? If you have more academic achievements - then professors from that particular field are more likely to hire you. But really - most people's research interests DO change. So getting into THIS ONE PARTICULAR RESEARCH FIELD isn't something that you should be overly focused on. </p>
<p>I know, I'm just saying random disorganized things.</p>
<p>a couple things:</p>
<p>UIUC is one of the top-ranked engineering schools in the country, and they definitely do not have many slouches there.</p>
<p>University of Chicago is very self selective compared to most of the other top schools. it is not in the best of locations, nor have a heard good comments from students who go there.</p>
<p>As for the original topic, i agree. you don't have to go to a top college to do well. you have to make the most of where you are. what's really more important is what grad school you go to, and even then, your employer may not care. i've known many people who went to mediocre colleges, but who worked really hard and made the best of their education there, and they either got into topnotch grad schools or got great job offers.</p>
<p>some of you people have gotten so caught up in the game of competition that you forget what really matters in the long run.</p>
<p>i'm applying to some top schools, but i'm basing my decision off of who will offer me the better scholarships, and if that's a state school, so be it.</p>
<p>I think the problem is that people try too hard. I take the most rigorious courseload at my school, and I feel like bad for those who try too hard and still are miserable. <em>sigh</em></p>
<p>Wow, guys, this is really pathetic.
X___Infatuation wrote:
[quote]
I'm in 8th grade...and today we took a practice PSAT test in math class just to see what it's like, and I scored a 544...which is REALLY low. And it seems like everyone in my class scored a 600 or above...I'm really nervous...am I overreacting? It's only 8th grade, and I'm only in Algebra I...so scoring a 544 isn't TOO bad, right? I've never gotten anything less than an A in anything, so it was a swift kick in the butt when I saw my score...I will learn more to improve my score up to at least a 700 by sophomore year, right? Is a 544 not too shabby for an 8th grader
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Beth98 responded:
[quote]
Your score is not stellar and in fact, it is about average. Were you not feeling well that day? I suggest that you enroll in a test prep class soon and re-take the entire PSAT. (Did you take the SATs already? How were your 7th grade SAT scores?) Identify the areas of weakness and work on those areas. I imagine that your math level (Algebra I) affected your score because the PSAT has geometry on it.</p>
<p>Good luck. It is never too early to start working on those all-important standardized tests.</p>
<p>Beth
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I feel sorry for these poor bastards.</p>
<p>To jhsu,
We don't say "class brain" anymore. That's so lame. We refer to ourselves as 'preps' and 'smartasses'</p>
<p>Also, another philosophical question: Why are you OBSESSED with YOUR own success? After all, you are only one of BILLIONS of mammals and birds, EACH AS GOOD AS ANY OTHER.</p>
<p>--> I'm a hardcore relativist - I don't think humans are any better than any other animals or plants or bacteria for that matter.</p>
<p>I think a brain would make one more important than a bacteria that has no knowledge of itself. If you truly believe bacteria = you, then you will somehow destroy your immune system, considering they are evil killers taking out hundreds of thousands of bacteria a day. Personally, I believe there is only value when we assign value to something.</p>
<p>I agree with the OP! The point of school is NOT to get the top grades! (Big revelation there, I know) It is to learn. Why did I get top grades? I did because I would have been disappointed with myself if I had not done my best. It was not because I wanted to be the top of my class. (That would have been nice, but was not my motivation.) </p>
<p>If being number one is what gets you motivated, go for it! But, if that is not why you roll out of bed every morning, do not make that your only goal. Look at Bill Gates. He never graduated from college. He did not earn that seemingly all-important degree. That never stopped him from realizing his goals. </p>
<p>Cheating is wrong. You all know it. The fact that people cheat to get the top grades does not make it acceptable. Do you think that if someone caught you tampering with your company's records, they would deduct some pay and forgive you?</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cheating is wrong. You all know it. The fact that people cheat to get the top grades does not make it acceptable. Do you think that if someone caught you tampering with your company's records, they would deduct some pay and forgive you?
[/quote]
we've all done and established that. the point is that it will happen. everybody does it. only a select few choose not to in the entiriety of their high school careers.
it's like trying to stop people from illegally downloading music. of course it's illegal. but it is impossible to stop due to the sheer amounts of people doing it.</p>
<p>in addition, i DO think cheating is justified in certain cases. i usually copy off other people or let people copy off me when busywork is assigned. if the teachers don't bother spending time creating an educational assignment, why should the students spend THEIR time working on it?</p>
<p>the OP had way too much time on his hands.</p>
<p>I agree Xe<em>Ln</em>Ag_A. I must say that i am guilty of copying the answers to crossword puzzles from others.</p>
<p>You guys are forgetting that while Bill Gates did not finish college, he still got into and stayed at Harvard until he was a junior.</p>
<p>Some assignments definitely are worth doing. But let's say your teacher assigns 4 pages of Partial Fraction Decomposition, or forces you to answer 14 questions out of a really long reading section.</p>
<p>These clearly are not worth doing, and group work is clearly the correct answer. </p>
<p>There are a lot of situations where following the rules is clearly a worse option than not, and so one should adapt accordingly.</p>
<p>you just put a whole different perspective on things for me. </p>
<p>now that i think about it, maybe being ranked 1 and getting into that dream ivy league school won't really help in the "real world."</p>